RE: Training ?????? (Full Version)

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Pyramus -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 11:26:33 AM)

Learning more than training




CelticPrince -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 11:26:50 AM)

quote:

Ya know, you are right.

Im still waiting to see what CP comes up with though. Or anyone else for that matter. Even teaching someone how to kneel, clothed, can cross over into vanilla life when a man wants nothing more than a footrub. [/quot

tazzygirl,

tho not address to me I am referened so I get to interject; if we want to make a connection to the vanilla world then the emphasis of the question is lost! We are a D/s site and the question is narrowly focused on the element..........tho I must say I hate to "narrowly" focus at anytime.

CP




CelticPrince -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 11:31:10 AM)

quote:

To "train" means to instruct, teach or discipline, and I believe its etymology leads back to the early 15th century or late 14th century.

To instruct, teach or discipline makes perfect sense in the D/s context, especially so in the M/s context. For those who seek training, the idea in my mind is that they seek and desire to be taught how to please their ideal Alpha...how to abide by their standards and rules and their particular form of dominance. A great amount of the psychological thrill in being a slave to another is molding yourself to the authority and force of the other person. Train, tutor, teach, break in, initiate...use whatever word you want, but it's necessary in my world, at least.

_____________________________

Saharah


Saharah,

Damn, just leave it to a Domme with a bullwhip to express her mind!
Thanks for your input and welcome to the boards.

CP




CelticPrince -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 11:38:00 AM)

quote:

CP, perhaps you might explain just what you view as a D/s training experience that would not cross over into the "vanilla" world.

~decided to try asking once again


laughs,

tazzygirl,

ok I will try again
Training = do show illustrate

cp's orientation = explain what is required clearly

CP




tazzygirl -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 11:49:50 AM)

Ah, but you miss a vital point to training. Not everything is clearly defined. I know men who delight in giving a girl a task, and watching them fumble through the process. Then stepping up to state how the girl could have done better.

You were the one who drew in the vanilla world into this discussion. For example, i was trained to kneel. He commanded, i obeyed, but not to his liking. I obeyed yet again, a bit differently, still not to his liking. It took many tries before i saw that tell tale sign that he approved.

From that moment on, his smile was my passing grade for the task set before me.

You truly are trying to make this more complicated than it is. Training or teaching... the end result is pleasing the one we wish to please.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 2:00:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Training ??????????

Where did this term come from? For those that have a fair amount of time in this path we walk..were you ever trained?


Oh yes, I was -absolutely- trained... I started out on the kneeling end of the leash, which is a requirement for lifestyle newcomers when they come into our household, and despite several years on the 'fringes', mostly as a counselor for those who had immersed themselves in BDSM, authority dynamics, and fetish life, I was still far from deep immersion myself.

During my decade in training, I was trained in EVERY aspect of life as a servant in our household, from tea service and proper cleaning techniques to BDSM  and body modification activities (including my initial training in temporary and permanent body piercing, strike and cautery branding). I was trained, in protocols, in forms of address, in exotic forms of speech, in languages (I wish I used my French more these days, as it's atrophied from lack of use!), in presentation, in entertainment (dance, card games, music - both instrumental and voice, formal debate, etc.), as well as being schooled in some sexual techniques that I hadn't been exposed to before, and getting some 'correction' in some techniques that had been an unpleasant chore, but which improved once different techniques were applied. I was also taught the basics of running a business, office management, customer service skills, and was encouraged to obtain outside training to further my skills as an arbitrator, esoteric arts practitioner/trainer, and alternative-lifestyle counselor.

Now that I'm on the other end of the leash, I enjoy the process of training ours. How they're trained really depends on why they've come to the Household. If they're coming to serve, then once we've seen how they do the things they're expected to do, we initiate training to help them find more efficient, more effective ways of completing their service. If they've come to entertain, we evaluate their skills and train them in the things that they would both -enjoy- and have the propensity to be skilled at (we also encourage those who are NOT being formally trained in a skill to 'audit' training sessions for things that they're interested in, but don't exhibit an affinity for -- who knows... they may come to show that they like it enough that they -become- skilled at it regardless of natural affinity!).

For those relatively new folks that "seek" to be trained by their model Dominant...what do you think it means?
For years this term has raised the hackles on my neck whenever it comes up in conversation of in some profile as I grope for a sense of what it is or how it is to be employed.


quote:

For some it is meeting tests; for others it is being subjected to being broken and the list goes on. In your view is it necessary?
In my view, it really depends on what one is looking for in the situation one is getting involved in. If one is interested in getting involved in a high-protocol situation, then one will at least need to be trained until one is well versed in the requisite protocols. If one is unable to complete the duties that one has been assigned due to not knowing the techniques or not being able to manage the project, then one certainly requires training in order to be able to complete the work skillfully and efficiently. Likewise with any training -- if it serves a useful purpose for both trainee and the recipient of the skills, then it is certainly necessary.

quote:

What say you on the subject?
I would not be the person that I am today, had I not undergone significant training over the course of my lifetime. I find all of it valuable -- even the things that I learned but do not use on a regular basis (French, anyone?). I found the PROCESS of training to be an opportunity to challenge myself under well-defined parameters, and value highly the fact that I -had- those opportunities. I would hope that those individuals who come to serve with us and who undergo training in one or more areas find it beneficial as well.

Calla

CP




CelticPrince -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 6:16:24 PM)

quote:

i say it's a fucked-up word that people use to make them feel superior/inferior; it's essentially getting to know what is expected of you/them.


liloneds,

Who can argue with such clear logic........ppsssst I agree.

CP




AquaticSub -> RE: Training ?????? (8/27/2010 7:18:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

i say it's a fucked-up word that people use to make them feel superior/inferior; it's essentially getting to know what is expected of you/them.


liloneds,

Who can argue with such clear logic........ppsssst I agree.

CP


I would still like specifics on what the difference is between teaching and training. I understand prefering one term over another but when you are going to create a X vs. Y debate, you need to define your terms.

Example: What is the difference between teaching someone to fold a shirt and training them to fold a shirt?




CelticPrince -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 3:25:28 AM)

quote:

Not really-I've seen him do this to several women on the boards. As soon as they ask a probing question it's like they suddenly don't exist.

He responded to a bunch of posts after the question was asked, and then a bunch more after it was repeated.

They aren't being silly.


VC,

A very curious comment indeed! Perhaps you could give an example. I make a very real attempt to answer each and every post that is directed to me. Part of the problem that an answer to a post just falls away to the bottom of the list rather than being dropped in behind the original commenting post.

While I cannot say my responses hit the 100% mark, I am probably higher than most.
As to avoidance.....never be they fem or male.
There is one exception and that is when someone takes a personal attack angle on me and I either fire back or just let them rant and avoid a pissing contest.
Trust me my nature is to fire back but to the unseen I choose to take the higher path.

CP




tazzygirl -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 6:52:20 AM)

And yet you could not deem Aquatic's simple question as worthy of an answer.... you know... the question just above your last reply. Yes... that one.... post # 88 while your last one was post #89.




RealSub58 -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 7:46:02 AM)

quote:

What is the difference between teaching someone to fold a shirt and training them to fold a shirt?
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


Like he said TAZZY and AQUA SUB, he chooses to ignore/avoid those to want to take a "personal attack angle" against him, but he has already answered the BURNING question. 

If neither one of you can figure it out, then you are only pulling a "personal attack angle" at CP, IMHO.


quote:

Part of the problem that an answer to a post just falls away to the bottom of the list rather than being dropped in behind the original commenting post.

As to avoidance.....never be they fem or male.
There is one exception and that is when someone takes a personal attack angle on me and I either
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince


quote:

Now we are getting someplace.......it is not a magical,or mystical thing................... simply teaching by exposure!

CP
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince



quote:

it's essentially getting to know what is expected of you/them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

i say it's a fucked-up word that people use to make them feel superior/inferior; it's essentially getting to know what is expected of you/them.


liloneds,
Who can argue with such clear logic........ppsssst I agree.
CP








tazzygirl -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 7:54:39 AM)

quote:

Like he said TAZZY and AQUA SUB, he chooses to ignore/avoid those to want to take a "personal attack angle" against him, but he has already answered the BURNING question.


THIS is the "burning question" as you have to kindly put it... and it has not been addressed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

Training is a part of everyday life. Training on a job, training children, training submissives, ect ect ect.

I view training as teaching. How does he like his bed made? The toilet paper roll hung? His socks folded? His coffee made?

All these, and so much more, are part of a training program.


tazzygirl,

Thanks for your input, bowever I have to say the way you put it might apply to every interpersonal relationship on earth.
I was focusing on the D/s aspect.

CP




quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

CP, perhaps you might explain just what you view as a D/s training experience that would not cross over into the "vanilla" world.

~decided to try asking once again




quote:

I would still like specifics on what the difference is between teaching and training. I understand prefering one term over another but when you are going to create a X vs. Y debate, you need to define your terms.

Example: What is the difference between teaching someone to fold a shirt and training them to fold a shirt?


I do not think asking the man to explain what he means is beyond the scope of a discussion. Just because you happen to agree with him doesnt make him right. And im sure of the Mods believed we were personally attacking him, we would be told. No one has made a personal attack, we are questioning the logic of his posts...

And rather nicely too... unlike yourself.




RealSub58 -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 8:10:04 AM)

quote:

Just because you happen to agree with him doesnt make him right.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


I have my own take on training and teaching and what I believe to be examples of both or even a definition of both as it reflects D/s and "vanilla."  I am not a drone that I agree with anyone on any subject.  I might appreciate a response, and if I really appreciate it, I will cmail that person.

quote:

No one has made a personal attack, we are questioning the logic of his posts...

And rather nicely too... unlike yourself.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl




I have made NO personal attacks, only attempted to let you and AS know that he has answered your question indirectly, yet you still try to provoke him even tho he is obviously avoiding/ignoring you both.

This thread is now derailed and I will take my leave of further correspondence.




tazzygirl -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 8:17:25 AM)

quote:

I have made NO personal attacks, only attempted to let you and AS know that he has answered your question indirectly, yet you still try to provoke him even tho he is obviously avoiding/ignoring you both.




And because we refuse to be ignored, you are upset. We have made no personal attacks. You certainly dont like it when your own inaccuracies are tossed back at you.

C'est la Vie.

~ETA

He has not addressed our questions directly or indirectly. He has avoided any response that doesnt agree with his own.

To be honest, that tells me alot about the man himself... and its something i often tell submissives and slaves to avoid in potential partners.




ExSteelAgain -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 8:31:52 AM)

The differences in what we want the submissive to be are obvious from the comments. The meaning of training can be debated. It is teaching, helping, physical or just learning each other? Both people in a relationship give ideas, both are examples for each other.

Getting back to the question, my training is putting my own effort forward to be in a caring relationship. As the relationship grows, I want increased BDSM play. I will encourage her to take a harder whipping (that I am careful with) is the simplest way to say it. I’ll also offer my advice in other areas as she will offer her ideas to me. Both should expect their advice to affect the other if the suggestions are sound.

It’s also much more. Her training is me whispering in her ear that she can’t do without me while she stands nude and I run a leather slapper over her breasts. When she nods her head and says she can’t do without me, no matter what, I reward her with a few slaps, bring her into my arms and kiss her deeply. Her training is working.




VaguelyCurious -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 11:55:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Perhaps you could give an example.

I think this thread is one of the ones I'm thinking of, but I honestly don't have the energy to read through it and check it's the one I think it is.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3312057/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3312057




RealSub58 -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 12:11:24 PM)

quote:

Her training is me whispering in her ear that she can’t do without me while she stands nude and I run a leather slapper over her breasts. When she nods her head and says she can’t do without me, no matter what, I reward her with a few slaps, bring her into my arms and kiss her deeply. Her training is working.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain


ExSteel,

I am still pondering the "love vs owned" thread.
Might I ask if this is loving your girl as well?

Thanks




ExSteelAgain -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 3:49:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

quote:

Her training is me whispering in her ear that she can’t do without me while she stands nude and I run a leather slapper over her breasts. When she nods her head and says she can’t do without me, no matter what, I reward her with a few slaps, bring her into my arms and kiss her deeply. Her training is working.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain


ExSteel,

I am still pondering the "love vs owned" thread.
Might I ask if this is loving your girl as well?

Thanks



I can't recall the thread exactly, but we would have to give a semantical explanation for LOVE to begin with. Personally, I don't think love is a black and white issue that you are either in or out of and if you are in the universe suddenly starts to spin around you in a way no wrong can occur. Love covers a lot of territory and not all of it is real.

This doesn't mean you can't be a romantic. Actually, whatever truth there is to love is all we have on this planet on the edge of the Milky Way among billions of other galaxies even if we can't make it all orbit around us.




ResidentSadist -> RE: Training ?????? (8/28/2010 4:09:59 PM)

Ass training - we weren't a comfortable fit.  I had her sleep with a plug inserted to help physically condition her.  It was necessary training. 




AquaticSub -> RE: Training ?????? (8/29/2010 7:32:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58
Like he said TAZZY and AQUA SUB, he chooses to ignore/avoid those to want to take a "personal attack angle" against him, but he has already answered the BURNING question. 

If neither one of you can figure it out, then you are only pulling a "personal attack angle" at CP, IMHO.



Asking someone to define the terms they are debating for and against is not a personal attack. It's actually required in debates.




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