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Freedom of religion - 8/26/2010 6:08:27 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Fear has changed this country, but if we give into the fear, which in many people has begun manifesting itself as hatred, then those that terrorize us have already won.

I admit that I have had my fear moments, and I felt shame for them.

Freedom of religion is more than just words. It is considerered by many to be a basic human right and is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Muslims are as free to practice their religion as Christians, those of the Jewish faith and Wiccans as well as every other religion.

Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. Most of the people who practice it are never violent, nor are terrorists.


By perpetuating the idea of hate towards those that practice Islam, we as a nation are eroding that which we stand for, and are perpetuating the same kind of blanket hatred that allowed Hitler to rise to power.

We need to remind ourselves of our diverse history... and strive to honor our founding documents while vowing not to repeat our terrible mistakes.

We can be strong without perpetuating the evil of hatred.



_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/26/2010 7:27:56 PM   
StrangerThan


Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Fear has changed this country, but if we give into the fear, which in many people has begun manifesting itself as hatred, then those that terrorize us have already won.

I admit that I have had my fear moments, and I felt shame for them.

Freedom of religion is more than just words. It is considerered by many to be a basic human right and is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Muslims are as free to practice their religion as Christians, those of the Jewish faith and Wiccans as well as every other religion.

Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. Most of the people who practice it are never violent, nor are terrorists.


By perpetuating the idea of hate towards those that practice Islam, we as a nation are eroding that which we stand for, and are perpetuating the same kind of blanket hatred that allowed Hitler to rise to power.

We need to remind ourselves of our diverse history... and strive to honor our founding documents while vowing not to repeat our terrible mistakes.

We can be strong without perpetuating the evil of hatred.




I was on one of the first flights out of Atltana's Hartsfield after 9/11. There were 3 others on board excluding pilot and crew. The flight attendant said they'd had a total of 12 for the day. It took maybe a year or two before flights became fully booked again.

People asked me why I got on the plane. My answer was that it was my job and if I changed the way I lived, or the way I believed, then they won.

Over the course of the next couple of years I watched Americans give up things I never thought I'd see. I watched an administration ignore the Constitution and do whatever the hell it pleased. I watched Conservatives and liberals drive 8 hours instead of fly 1.

America has already given into the fear for the most part. When you want government or God to do everything for you, you're no longer what I consider it takes to keep this country what it is and should be. The thing people do best these days is evidence diarrhea of the mouth and brain.

I told Conservatives when Bush was in office the same thing I'll tell liberals. Every fucking ounce of freedom you give over is a freedom no American will ever see again. To defend it because of partisan politics is the height of stupidity for the simple reason that all you are doing is laying the groundwork for the next administration, who may well be the other side, to grab more.

Liberals used to rant and rail against the Patriot act. What's up with that today? Nothing. It's ok today. Obama is in charge.

Muslims are free to practice religion. No one is indicating that right be deprived of them. No one is advocating they be deported or rounded up into concentration camps. What has a lot of folks angry isn't that they're muslim or they practice their religion. It is where they choose to erect this mosque and cultural center.

But don't talk to me about fear. I came to the conclusion after 9/11 that a good portion of American folks are shaking, pissing in their pants masses of flesh.

Nothing much has changed that opinion in recent years. 


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: Freedom of religion - 8/26/2010 7:31:12 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Liberals used to rant and rail against the Patriot act. What's up with that today? Nothing. It's ok today. Obama is in charge.




Whats that expression about a broken clock?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/26/2010 8:13:44 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Arghhhh, Freedom of Religion isn't going anywhere, this whole thing will be forgotten next year, the factions just blow on the embers that have been there now and again, exactly to warp perceptions.

Facts:
The major religions are just as stupid as they were last year, or a decade ago.
The major religions will be wasting money building useless eyesore buildings for decades to come.
All people still have the right to be as stupid as they want to be. (Freedom of Religion).


So, don't worry about it, Priests will continue molesting now and then, The Prophet's sexual exploits will continue to be sanctified, "God" is still revered for drowning 99.9% of the people in the world, random loons will kill now and then in the name of their chosen facilitator...


All is good, nothing has changed.




(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: Freedom of religion - 8/26/2010 9:58:45 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Fear has changed this country, but if we give into the fear, which in many people has begun manifesting itself as hatred, then those that terrorize us have already won.

I admit that I have had my fear moments, and I felt shame for them.

Freedom of religion is more than just words. It is considerered by many to be a basic human right and is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Muslims are as free to practice their religion as Christians, those of the Jewish faith and Wiccans as well as every other religion.

Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. Most of the people who practice it are never violent, nor are terrorists.


By perpetuating the idea of hate towards those that practice Islam, we as a nation are eroding that which we stand for, and are perpetuating the same kind of blanket hatred that allowed Hitler to rise to power.

We need to remind ourselves of our diverse history... and strive to honor our founding documents while vowing not to repeat our terrible mistakes.

We can be strong without perpetuating the evil of hatred.





religion has been so incredibly distorted an politicized its not wonder there is so much hate and discontent.

Another version of religion that people for all intents and purposes are not even aware of created the place.

quote:

Fundamental Agreement, or Original Constitution of the Colony of New Haven, June 4, 1639


THE 4th day of the 4th month, called June, 1639, all the free planters assembled together in a general meeting, to consult about settling civil government, according to GOD, and the nomination of persons that might be found, by consent of all, fittest in all respects for the foundation work of a church, which was intended to be gathered in Quinipiack. After solemn invocation of the name of GOD, in prayer for the presence and help of his spirit and grace, in those weighty businesses, they were reminded of the business where about they met, (viz.) for the establishment of such civil order as might be most pleasing unto GOD, and for the choosing the fittest men for the foundation work of a church to be gathered. For the better enabling them to discern the mind of GOD, and to agree accordingly concerning the establishment of civil order, Mr. John Davenport propounded divers queries to them publicly, praying them to consider seriously in the presence and fear of GOD, the weight of the business they met about, and not to be rash or slight in giving their votes to things they understood not; but to digest fully and thoroughly what should be propounded to them, and without respect to men, as they should be satisfied and persuaded in their own minds, to give their answers in such sort as they would be willing should stand upon record for posterity. This being earnestly pressed by Mr. Davenport, Mr. Robert Newman was intreated to write, in characters, and to read distinctly and audibly in the hearing of all the people, what was propounded and accorded on, that it might appear, that all consented to matters propounded, according to words written by him.

Query I. WHETHER the scriptures do hold forth a perfect rule for the direction and government of all men in all duties which they are to perform to GOD and men, as well in families and commonwealth, as in matters of the church ? This was assented unto by all, no man dissenting, as was expressed by holding up of hands. Afterwards it was read over to them, that they might see in what words their vote was expressed. They again expressed their consent by holding up their hands, no man dissenting.

Query II. WHEREAS there was a covenant solemnly made by the whole assembly of free planters of this plantation, the first day of extraordinary humiliation, which we had after we came together, that as in matters that concern the gathering and ordering of a church, so likewise in all public officers which concern civil order, as choice of magistrates and officers, making and repealing laws, dividing allotments of inheritance, and all things of like nature, we would all of us be ordered by those rules which the scripture holds forth to US; this covenant was called a plantation covenant, to distinguish it from a church covenant. which could not at that time be made a church not being then gathered, but was deferred till a church might be gathered, according to GOD. It was demanded whether all the free planters do hold themselves bound by that covenant, in all businesses of that nature which are expressed in the covenant, to submit themselves to be ordered by the rules held forth in the scripture t THIS also was assented unto by all, and no man gainsayed it; and they did testify the same by holding up their hands, both when it was first propounded, and confirmed the same by holding up their hands when it was read unto them in public. John Clark being absent, when the covenant was made, doth now manifest his consent to it. Also Richard Beach, Andrew Law, Goodman Banister, Arthur Halbridge, John Potter, Robert Hill, John Brocket, and John Johnson, these persons, being not admitted planters when the covenant was made, do now express their consent to it. 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/ct01.asp


Free planters of course were the people granted freedom from the crown. (subjects and slaves can make no law)

If religion is destroyed, property rights are destroyed.

If property rights are destroyed you have no rights and no constitution. no protective boundary even for your body.


What if 911 was among other things a religious war between 2 or more religious factions?

What if Americans are walking the path of Germany?

Why was religion the target?

The notion of "islamofascists" strikes me as one of the most fascinating oxymoron's of the decade.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to angelikaJ)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 5:17:22 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		The problem isn't religions. The problem is ORGANIZED religions. Once a religion gets away from the concept of it being a one-on one- with you and whoever your deity might be, it opens the door for power hungry "shamans" who then interpret "the word" in such a way as to keep themselves in charge and safe and, preferrably, not having to work too hard.
The best way to do this is to create fear and mistrust between 'us' and 'them'.
I see a lot of that happening these days.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 5:27:55 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Fear has changed this country, but if we give into the fear, which in many people has begun manifesting itself as hatred, then those that terrorize us have already won.

I admit that I have had my fear moments, and I felt shame for them.

Freedom of religion is more than just words. It is considerered by many to be a basic human right and is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Muslims are as free to practice their religion as Christians, those of the Jewish faith and Wiccans as well as every other religion.

Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. Most of the people who practice it are never violent, nor are terrorists.


By perpetuating the idea of hate towards those that practice Islam, we as a nation are eroding that which we stand for, and are perpetuating the same kind of blanket hatred that allowed Hitler to rise to power.

We need to remind ourselves of our diverse history... and strive to honor our founding documents while vowing not to repeat our terrible mistakes.

We can be strong without perpetuating the evil of hatred.





Freedom of Religion ?


How about ;


Freedom from Religion ?

Just think about it, a country or a world where what goes on is not given any validity by reference to the fantastic or fanciful, religion out of the way, we are left with pure humanity and there we will see the true human in it's true form for better or worse.

After myself personally exploring many faiths over the years, I have come to the conclusion the god, deity, the whatever it is, if it is , it resides in the self and outside of the self, so if we are to worship and have belief in anything, it should be ourselves and everything around us, what we are to ourselves , other people and the world in which we live, we are nature, not apart from it.

Scrap the organised belief systems, and maybe, just maybe we might evolve.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 2:32:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The problem isn't religions. The problem is ORGANIZED religions. Once a religion gets away from the concept of it being a one-on one- with you and whoever your deity might be, it opens the door for power hungry "shamans" who then interpret "the word" in such a way as to keep themselves in charge and safe and, preferrably, not having to work too hard.
The best way to do this is to create fear and mistrust between 'us' and 'them'.
I see a lot of that happening these days.


Well I am far from a bible thumper but to my surprise I found out those are the only rights the government cannot fuck with are those in the scriptures as the origination is with God.  Now people have put up the sumarians et all and when you research that you find that they also are rooted in religion.

If the gov gives you a 14th privilege the gov can take it away, but who can take away what God gives?  no one! no government.  Those are the rights spoken of in the constitutions (there are 4 of them) that are unalienable.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 4:56:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The problem isn't religions. The problem is ORGANIZED religions. Once a religion gets away from the concept of it being a one-on one- with you and whoever your deity might be, it opens the door for power hungry "shamans" who then interpret "the word" in such a way as to keep themselves in charge and safe and, preferrably, not having to work too hard.
The best way to do this is to create fear and mistrust between 'us' and 'them'.
I see a lot of that happening these days.


Well I am far from a bible thumper but to my surprise I found out those are the only rights the government cannot fuck with are those in the scriptures as the origination is with God.  Now people have put up the sumarians et all and when you research that you find that they also are rooted in religion.

If the gov gives you a 14th privilege the gov can take it away, but who can take away what God gives?  no one! no government.  Those are the rights spoken of in the constitutions (there are 4 of them) that are unalienable.



There are no inalienable god given rights, only those that a given society recognizes and all can therefore be taken away. God isnt coming down from the sky to tell Congress they cant do it.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 6:12:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The problem isn't religions. The problem is ORGANIZED religions. Once a religion gets away from the concept of it being a one-on one- with you and whoever your deity might be, it opens the door for power hungry "shamans" who then interpret "the word" in such a way as to keep themselves in charge and safe and, preferrably, not having to work too hard.
The best way to do this is to create fear and mistrust between 'us' and 'them'.
I see a lot of that happening these days.


Well I am far from a bible thumper but to my surprise I found out those are the only rights the government cannot fuck with are those in the scriptures as the origination is with God.  Now people have put up the sumarians et all and when you research that you find that they also are rooted in religion.

If the gov gives you a 14th privilege the gov can take it away, but who can take away what God gives?  no one! no government.  Those are the rights spoken of in the constitutions (there are 4 of them) that are unalienable.



There are no inalienable god given rights, only those that a given society recognizes and all can therefore be taken away. God isnt coming down from the sky to tell Congress they cant do it.


Oh no no no no....

We are the grantor creators not congress!

congress was created UNDER our grant for their existence:

quote:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Congress is not a party to the constitution.

This country is based on common law regardless of how people wish to spin it.

Any attorney will tell you the law of the land is common law.

quote:

Amendment 7 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases.

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


and those rules are with a court master and a grand jury (of the people without association (agency) to government) in a common law tribunal.  (by the people)

the fundamental rules of law are that you do no injury in body or equity to your brother, all else is yours to claim.  (with exception to the specific provisions ceded as a democracy for our protection and welfare to the club called government).  As you can see that a jury trial outside the US court system in other words in a peoples common law tribunal where there is no army flag in the court house can be re-examined by ANY united states courts and all courts in court houses fly the courts martial army flag.   Under the flag doctrine, ie the law of the flag.

The 9th amendment even warns the gov who is boss:

quote:

Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


In other words we have whatever rights we claim unless the defendant can prove that what we are claiming as a right is damaging the defendant, and has nothing to do with what a legislature says because its outside their juris-diction.

There is a specific reason for using the word "people" as they are jointly or severely.  (means together as a group or one of the people)

There is no limit to my rights as long as I declare them publicly and do not infringe on any other freeman.


Then the:

quote:

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


The 10th further explains that the only rights (a misnomer because states only have "rights" against the people of other states BUT not the "states creators"..... in other words the states have no "rights" against the people nor sovereignty that created them, but only to "foreign juris-dictions".

Now that is ONLY if you are talking about the dejure as in 1791 circa constitution ratified by the delegates (free men) of the states, now once you go 13 and up you get into the defacto constitution where the people were excluded and still are from the ratification process. 

In fact the 14th amendment the one that creates the defacto they even went so far as to exclude the southern states who were legitimate states at the time from suffrage from voting by force.

Its in all the state legislative notes from carolina all the way to texas.

Bottom line you have congress as was created "UNDER" the constitution not creators "of" the constitution changing it without the delegated authority to do so and hence they have no authority to change the constitution without referendums being run in all states.

So during the reconstruction (which they had NO ENUMERATED AUTHORITY to do) they created the corporate version hence completely void the lawful process of the delegates carrying votes of the peoples assemblys to enact and ratify any amendments you now have congress's of both the feds and the states who conveniently decided there was no need for the people to have suffrage. 

Hence the creation of the defacto government and the foxes are watching our hens for us and the records were brought to the floor in 1967 senate hearings.  (iow none of this is new)

Ok that was off on a tangent,

point is that people have no idea what rights they truly have like the right to travel with no need for licensing and what not.

Unfortunately most people today come under the defacto and they do not have the right to travel or fish for that matter without licenses yet there are thousands of people through out the us who fish and drive without licenses.

The point being as you can see by the constitution with the knowledge that the rights are based in the common law and the common law is anglo-sax and ecclesiastical and even includes the magna charta if you know how to invoke your court its yours for the taking but you gotta be one sharp cookie because these judges know how to snare you into their juris-diction (defacto commercial) with every trick in the book.  The easiest that literally no one even knows surprisingly is when you stand in court to fight your traffic ticket and you enter a plea.

Not guilty your honor, well the second you opened your mouth you made a contract to be "subject" to their juris-diction and subject the foreign juris-diction court and you forfeited your jurisdiction.

Its being fought left and right in court now days by those who have a handle on it and there is even an attorney running for attorney general to help bring back the lawful government.



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 8/27/2010 6:29:07 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 6:26:04 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Leave it Realone to hijack a thread and turn it into a fucking "Sovereign Citizen" sermon.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 6:35:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Leave it Realone to hijack a thread and turn it into a fucking "Sovereign Citizen" sermon.


try constitution lesson :)

If you feel that I have made an error please post whatever senate documents and statutes at large that you have and I will be happy to post mine k?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 7:11:17 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Leave it Realone to hijack a thread and turn it into a fucking "Sovereign Citizen" sermon.


try constitution lesson :)

If you feel that I have made an error please post whatever senate documents and statutes at large that you have and I will be happy to post mine k?


Whether you made an error doesn't even matter. Your interpretation of the constitution doesn't matter. No one's does except those in power and groups large/rich/powerful enough to elect them.



_____________________________

What if your God... were a motherfucking DINOSAUR?!

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 7:25:46 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Sounds good, but it's just not true. You know about the Muslim center in Murfreesboro, TN? It's already there--it's been there for over 30 years. They need a bigger facility now because their congregation has outgrown the one they've used all this time, and people are going apeshit over the idea that there's going to be a new mosque in Murfreesboro. So I beg to differ: "what has a lot of folks angry" is that they're Muslims. Period. The rest is rhetoric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

Muslims are free to practice religion. No one is indicating that right be deprived of them. No one is advocating they be deported or rounded up into concentration camps. What has a lot of folks angry isn't that they're muslim or they practice their religion. It is where they choose to erect this mosque and cultural center.


(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 9:11:27 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Leave it Realone to hijack a thread and turn it into a fucking "Sovereign Citizen" sermon.


try constitution lesson :)

If you feel that I have made an error please post whatever senate documents and statutes at large that you have and I will be happy to post mine k?


Whether you made an error doesn't even matter. Your interpretation of the constitution doesn't matter. No one's does except those in power and groups large/rich/powerful enough to elect them.




well for those who hate religion, the bottom line, and in the final analysis the roots of your choice of politics is your religion.

Your politics is based on how you want the world to be run and how you want the world to be run is based on your belief system and your belief system is your religion regardless if it includes a God or anything else likewise an atheist has their beliefs hence atheism is a religion in and of itself.

The issue becomes if you have laws by God dating back to the beginning of rime as your foundation for law you have historical "precedence", while if you are an atheist by what precedence do you have standing?

All you can say is that you think it should be some certain way with no certifiable backup in precedence so its a dead end unless you want to go statute (which: is get this "PRIVATE" law by a small group of men sitting around a table deciding what you need to obey!), and if you read through statutes it all boils down to who is making the money on the case.

The first thing an attorney does is ask you "whats your income" so he can gauge what to charge you.

look at pam andersons divorce.... run of the mill nothing special anyone else in the world could have done it for couple grand.  lol

So one could imo claim "pick your poison"....  Religious people have treated me fairly and the courts (as they stand) are nothing more than an extortion racket.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheRaptorJesus)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/27/2010 10:51:01 PM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Fear has changed this country, but if we give into the fear, which in many people has begun manifesting itself as hatred, then those that terrorize us have already won.

I admit that I have had my fear moments, and I felt shame for them.

Freedom of religion is more than just words. It is considerered by many to be a basic human right and is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Muslims are as free to practice their religion as Christians, those of the Jewish faith and Wiccans as well as every other religion.

Islam is the second most popular religion in the world. Most of the people who practice it are never violent, nor are terrorists.


By perpetuating the idea of hate towards those that practice Islam, we as a nation are eroding that which we stand for, and are perpetuating the same kind of blanket hatred that allowed Hitler to rise to power.

We need to remind ourselves of our diverse history... and strive to honor our founding documents while vowing not to repeat our terrible mistakes.

We can be strong without perpetuating the evil of hatred.




I was on one of the first flights out of Atltana's Hartsfield after 9/11. There were 3 others on board excluding pilot and crew. The flight attendant said they'd had a total of 12 for the day. It took maybe a year or two before flights became fully booked again.

People asked me why I got on the plane. My answer was that it was my job and if I changed the way I lived, or the way I believed, then they won.

Over the course of the next couple of years I watched Americans give up things I never thought I'd see. I watched an administration ignore the Constitution and do whatever the hell it pleased. I watched Conservatives and liberals drive 8 hours instead of fly 1.

America has already given into the fear for the most part. When you want government or God to do everything for you, you're no longer what I consider it takes to keep this country what it is and should be. The thing people do best these days is evidence diarrhea of the mouth and brain.

I told Conservatives when Bush was in office the same thing I'll tell liberals. Every fucking ounce of freedom you give over is a freedom no American will ever see again. To defend it because of partisan politics is the height of stupidity for the simple reason that all you are doing is laying the groundwork for the next administration, who may well be the other side, to grab more.

Liberals used to rant and rail against the Patriot act. What's up with that today? Nothing. It's ok today. Obama is in charge.

Muslims are free to practice religion. No one is indicating that right be deprived of them. No one is advocating they be deported or rounded up into concentration camps. What has a lot of folks angry isn't that they're muslim or they practice their religion. It is where they choose to erect this mosque and cultural center.

But don't talk to me about fear. I came to the conclusion after 9/11 that a good portion of American folks are shaking, pissing in their pants masses of flesh.

Nothing much has changed that opinion in recent years. 



I was speaking about this just the other day with a friend. We were both against the PATRIOT Act when it was passed in such hurried fashion and we are still against it today. There does seem to be an overall on the issue presently and that is disturbing as it is still on the "books."

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/29/2010 8:55:17 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brokedickdog
I was speaking about this just the other day with a friend. We were both against the PATRIOT Act when it was passed in such hurried fashion and we are still against it today. There does seem to be an overall on the issue presently and that is disturbing as it is still on the "books."


yes,
that is a double edged sword however as people are using it also against the actions of the guv, but are meeting with resistance in the courts.

Congressional members et al AND the vice president each receive a copy of the jeffersons manual of parlimentary procedures. 

It is the guide on how they are supposed to operate and conduct themselves, and in there they are directed to read every bill 3 times and every member is required to be seated in their seats respectively for any legislation on the floor.

They admitted they did not even read it.  There is a crime that attaches when these types of tyranny take place.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to brokedickdog)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/29/2010 2:48:39 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Up until recently, I would have been one of the people who would claim that religion is just ridiculous nonsense for superstitious fools. But Dawkins changed everything. Much as I agree with his basic plot, that there is no God, I find the militant atheist movement spawned by his writings much more scary than any organised religion could ever be.

As far as I am concerned, freedom of religion and the freedom to practice religion without fear of persecution is absolutely paramount. Personally I would go further than the US does in protecting religious folk from having their beliefs insulted, but I recognise that others may not feel quite so accommodating.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/29/2010 2:56:57 PM   
peacefulplace


Posts: 157
Joined: 8/22/2010
Status: offline 		Not a militant atheist...I believe in forces more powerful than the human mind will ever be able to conceive. I believe there is a beauty in this world that should humble us because it is nothing a human could have created. As Einstein said, "Gravity is not responsible for people falling in love."

That being said, these organized sects of religion promote insanity. Complete insanity. I don't care what religion it is. I don't respect Islam, but guess what? I don't respect Christianity, either. It seems to me the world would be a lot better off if we'd just give up this bizarre attachment to idolatry.

_____________________________

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
~~Emma Goldman

One thing is clear to me: We, as human beings, must be willing to accept people who are different from ourselves.
~~Barbara Jordan

(in reply to hertz)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Freedom of religion - 8/29/2010 3:08:59 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Leave it Realone to hijack a thread and turn it into a fucking "Sovereign Citizen" sermon.


try constitution lesson :)

If you feel that I have made an error please post whatever senate documents and statutes at large that you have and I will be happy to post mine k?



You post the same things that you've posted countless times and been proven wrong countless times.

I don't think there is a need to bother anymore, just enjoy your baseless rants.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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