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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 8:56:50 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If ideas are such a threat, then so is thinking.

Actual reading of the Quran makes one hell of a difference (and not to cherry pick attack opportunities). These discussions are virtually always by people with no idea what's inside, just as the vast majority of people have never read the Bible--despite their claims.


Yes I have.  I have read it and seen what it offered to females 1500 years ago.  I also know what the "bible" says.  And I know that the New Testament offers females the same freedoms.  I still think that it wrong to burn them.

I think it is too often forgotten by muslims that Mohammed was illiterate and one of the primary scribes that he dictated the Qur'an to was his wife, the independently wealthy older women who married him because he had impressed her as an employee (Khadijah bint Khuwaylid).

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 8:59:47 AM   
dcnovice


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The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
-- Galatians 5:14


I'm trying to stretch my imagination, but I can't come up with any perspective in which burning someone else's scripture is a loving act. The proposed bonfire seems to be a deliberate attempt to show disrespect for, and inflict pain on, a billion of our neighbors. It's hard to picture Jesus, who welcomed outcasts and reached across boundaries, taking part or approving.

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 9:07:07 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		   According to my Turkish, Egyptian and Kuwaiti friends (Muslims all) the Koran is nuanced in its original language in ways that do not translate well.  There are examples in the bible which also show difficulties in interpretation.  When i grew up there was a story attributed to Christ where He said --it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven.--
in my later years the word "camel" was re-interpreted to "rope".  I believe that the Arabic (Aramaic?) word "kemel" can be translated both ways.  The nuance changes a nearly impossible task into a challenging one.  The more translations the more things get like the telephone game.
  

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 9:09:25 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline 		Amen to that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
-- Galatians 5:14


I'm trying to stretch my imagination, but I can't come up with any perspective in which burning someone else's scripture is a loving act. The proposed bonfire seems to be a deliberate attempt to show disrespect for, and inflict pain on, a billion of our neighbors. It's hard to picture Jesus, who welcomed outcasts and reached across boundaries, taking part or approving.


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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 9:34:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Umm-  at church we have 4 diff translations.   Really.

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 11:03:29 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

   According to my Turkish, Egyptian and Kuwaiti friends (Muslims all) the Koran is nuanced in its original language in ways that do not translate well.  There are examples in the bible which also show difficulties in interpretation.  When i grew up there was a story attributed to Christ where He said --it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven.--
in my later years the word "camel" was re-interpreted to "rope".  I believe that the Arabic (Aramaic?) word "kemel" can be translated both ways.  The nuance changes a nearly impossible task into a challenging one.  The more translations the more things get like the telephone game.
  

The same argument can, and has been made, about every written work of any signifigance. Since I am not going to learn Aramaic and ancient Greek I'll content myself with english translations of the bible and the same applies to Arabic and the qur'an.

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 11:29:23 AM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/us-quran-burning-sparks-i_n_705973.html


I think it is antagonistic and should be canceled.



I say sure just as long as we burn Bibles, Torahs, and every "prayer book" of the Buddhist, and Hindus and every other piece of religious detritus as well.
That we still need religion to "guide" in our interactions with our fellow humans says a lot about just how non-evolved we really are.  

Thus spake Ian Anderson:

1 In the beginning Man created God;
and in the image of Man
created he him.

2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of
names,that he might be Lord of all
the earth when it was suited to Man

3 And on the seven millionth
day Man rested and did lean
heavily on his God and saw that
it was good.

4 And Man formed Aqualung of
the dust of the ground, and a
host of others likened unto his kind.

5 And these lesser men were cast into the
void; And some were burned, and some were
put apart from their kind.

6 And Man became the God that he had
created and with his miracles did
rule over all the earth.

7 But as all these things
came to pass, the Spirit that did
cause man to create his God
lived on within all men: even
within Aqualung.

8 And man saw it not.

9 But for Christ's sake he'd
better start looking.

Line one remains the single best explanation of why there is religion I have seen in the 40 years since the record album was released.




Non-Religiously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 11:41:36 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Muslims don't drink alcohol.
Who was it who said; "I don't trust people who don't drink." Mark Twain? John Wayne?

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 11:54:46 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Muslims don't drink alcohol.
Who was it who said; "I don't trust people who don't drink." Mark Twain? John Wayne?


OBSERVANT Muslims don't.

And I think that quote is from WC Fields.  http://aphr.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/never-trust-a-man-that-doesnt-drink/

Edited to add: here is a moron who claims that WC Fields stole the quote from William Claude Dukenfield, not realizing they're the same man: http://lonniebruner.blogspot.com/2004/12/never-trust-man-who-doesnt-drink-wc.html

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 9/5/2010 11:56:35 AM >

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 12:19:25 PM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		"The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, said it will burn the Islamic holy book Wednesday, the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks"


If they want to do something to remember those who died, why can't they come up with something positive. Some kind of community outreach or something. This kind of bullshit just continues the cycle of hate and doesn't help anyone. If I ever die in something big like this and people want to do something on the anniversary, I hope they go to the park or something like that. They want to burn something, they can bring marshmallows.


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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 12:22:20 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Other than generally being against the burning of ANY book (other than maybe the US Tax Code) I'd like to see EVERY fairy tale book of religion tossed into the nearest active volcano (along with several of their higher-profile practioners).


So you are against book burning as long as you agree with what the book is? My guess is, most of the assholes in this group would agree with that, only burn the ones we don't like. So what is the difference between the two?


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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 12:26:53 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

"The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, said it will burn the Islamic holy book Wednesday, the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks"


If they want to do something to remember those who died, why can't they come up with something positive. Some kind of community outreach or something. This kind of bullshit just continues the cycle of hate and doesn't help anyone. If I ever die in something big like this and people want to do something on the anniversary, I hope they go to the park or something like that. They want to burn something, they can bring marshmallows.




I think they could come to my house and clean it for me.   That would help me feel better about 9-11.  

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 12:30:39 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

"The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, said it will burn the Islamic holy book Wednesday, the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks"


If they want to do something to remember those who died, why can't they come up with something positive. Some kind of community outreach or something. This kind of bullshit just continues the cycle of hate and doesn't help anyone. If I ever die in something big like this and people want to do something on the anniversary, I hope they go to the park or something like that. They want to burn something, they can bring marshmallows.




I think they could come to my house and clean it for me.   That would help me feel better about 9-11.  



Only if you have marshmallows


_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 1:19:38 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If ideas are such a threat, then so is thinking.

Actual reading of the Quran makes one hell of a difference (and not to cherry pick attack opportunities). These discussions are virtually always by people with no idea what's inside, just as the vast majority of people have never read the Bible--despite their claims.


Yes I have.  I have read it and seen what it offered to females 1500 years ago.  I also know what the "bible" says.  And I know that the New Testament offers females the same freedoms.  I still think that it wrong to burn them.

I think it is too often forgotten by muslims that Mohammed was illiterate and one of the primary scribes that he dictated the Qur'an to was his wife, the independently wealthy older women who married him because he had impressed her as an employee (Khadijah bint Khuwaylid).


Yes, I know.  How much more of his history do you know?

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 1:31:37 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		Re OP, yes....the raeg will be delicious. This is all.

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 1:50:01 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		I had a wild idea of burning a bunch of bibles on the 11th just to show solidarity with (observant) Muslims, and I'm a Christian.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 9/5/2010 1:52:35 PM >

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 1:50:31 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		My other thought about this stupid little stunt is if they're going to do it, they absolutely MUST roast some pure-pork hot dogs!!!

~Dave


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I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 2:08:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		no, they shouldnt. It would contribute to global warming. <cough><cough>

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and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 2:12:06 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/us-quran-burning-sparks-i_n_705973.html


I think it is antagonistic and should be canceled.


Burning the Qur’an is an act of religious zealotry. The outcome of such an act will only serve to incite the Islamic World. Rightly so. An attitude of religious exclusiveness has never produced results worthy of repeating. Truly it is perplexing to consider such religious fanatical people exist within the United States of American where freedom of Religion is a constitutional right. To distort that right and freedom of religion by demeaning another World Religion with burning the Holy Qur’an is merely an abominable act for all of the World to witness. All in the name of God no less, in the name of God. What God I ask? Or rather is it really God who would condone such an act? What happened to loving your neighbor as you love yourself? Are not Muslims our neighbors worthy of Love ? I know my Muslim friends are worthy of much love as are all Muslims. In the eyes of God they are. Talk is cheap when it comes to Religion. Practicing the conviction of Loving others as we love ourselves is a whole other path. Something to consider, aye!

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RE: should they burn the quarun? - 9/5/2010 2:13:31 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I had a wild idea of burning a bunch of bibles on the 11th just to show solidarity with (observant) Muslims, and I'm a Christian.


I am okay with this.  How many do I need to contribute?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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