RE: should they burn the quarun? (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 2:39:20 PM)


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ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If ideas are such a threat, then so is thinking.

Actual reading of the Quran makes one hell of a difference (and not to cherry pick attack opportunities). These discussions are virtually always by people with no idea what's inside, just as the vast majority of people have never read the Bible--despite their claims.


Yes I have.  I have read it and seen what it offered to females 1500 years ago.  I also know what the "bible" says.  And I know that the New Testament offers females the same freedoms.  I still think that it wrong to burn them.

I think it is too often forgotten by muslims that Mohammed was illiterate and one of the primary scribes that he dictated the Qur'an to was his wife, the independently wealthy older women who married him because he had impressed her as an employee (Khadijah bint Khuwaylid).


Yes, I know.  How much more of his history do you know?

I just know the highlights of his life. Really mostly just background info. I remembered his first wife's details but had to look up her name.




hertz -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 3:29:00 PM)

The Nazis were huge on book-burning. Their favourite target was Jewish religious literature. Just saying...

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Seventy-five years ago  -- a mere 100 days after Hitler rose to power -- a series of organized book burnings took place throughout Germany. The Nazi assault on reason, and the Jews, had begun.
As I write this from Israel, ten days after commemorating Yam Hashoah, I don't want to let this day pass without thinking about what this fateful event meant to European Jewry and what it means for us today.
I'm sure you have seen the pictures. On May 10, 1933, perhaps the most notable bonfire was the one that took place on Berlin's Opernplatz - Opera House Square -- opposite Humboldt University. This was the fruit of a month-long campaign by the German Student Association to "cleanse" German language and literature.
The mission of these right-wing rabble rousers was in line with Joseph Goebbels's propaganda machinery on behalf of the Reich.
More than 20,000 books and journals, and about 5,000 images, all representing "insidious" Jewish influence, were torched by students and Nazi storm troopers. Enthusiastic crowds witnessed this feverish destruction of "un-German" writings which had been systematically pilfered from libraries, public buildings, private offices, and citizen's homes. We know that similar "ceremonies" took place in some 30 German university towns. We know that torchlight parades were punctuated with speeches railing against "Jewish intellectualism" and calling for the purification of German culture. We know that writings by such Jewish intellectuals as Einstein and Freud fueled the flames, alongside German texts by Bertolt Brecht and Thomas Mann, and volumes by international writers including Dos Passos, Hemingway, Zola, Proust, and even Helen Keller.
The Nazis made no distinction between hating Jews for religious or "racial" reasons and for so-called "impure" cultural ones. If Jews were historically the "People of the Book," German fascists were as zealous in their hatred of the Torah as they were toward Jewish intellectual thought that grew in the fertile soil of the late Renaissance and the European Enlightenment. 
From the Talmud and other books of Jewish learning, to Spinoza, Moses Mendelssohn, and Vienna's own Sigmund Freud, Jewish powers of reasoning were spread by the printed word. For a vast number of anti-Semitic Germans, however, Jewish thought was poisonous simply because it was produced by Jews and because it was considered "cosmopolitan," ushering in a dangerous modern world that challenged a mystical and medieval German romanticism in favor of new ideas. The book burnings were a totalitarian attack on all of dynamic modern culture and on democratic ideals of pluralism, and was an early warning of what lay ahead for European Jewry that went largely unheeded by the civilized world.
I'm sorry to say that this is not such ancient history. On the American scene, we continue to see books attacked by self-appointed censors and removed from library shelves, while internationally, fatwas are issued against authors and cartoonists. As Jews, we know only too well the importance and power of words. The gas chambers did not begin with bricks - they began with words. Ugly, hateful words that demonized, degraded, and debased Jews. And those words became ugly, hateful deeds.
But the notion that we must throw books on a bonfire or remove them from shelves, and in that way eliminate ideas and, symbolically, authors, is to break faith with reason. 
Of course, the Nazis believed fanatically in the danger of reason or unfamiliar ideas - and the Jew was the eternal conveyor of "foreign" ideas which had to be rooted out of German culture. Let's remember the period:  there was no Internet then. Communication was all about books, newspapers, periodicals, radio, and the moving pictures. First the Nazis tried to limit acceptable communication to what they deemed appropriately "German." Then they judged most of modern art "degenerate," including a modern master like Marc Chagall, and damned Mondrian in favor of the merely kitsch Arno Brecker. After all, to the Nazis modern art was "Jewish Bolshevist." And as for the movies, they could find no better idolater than Leni Riefenstahl, an evil genius if ever there was one. That fateful night of May 10, 1933 ushered in one of the darkest chapters in Jewish history.
It was, of course, just a portent of things to come. We've all seen the pictures and the newsreels. The sparks and flames that reached into the night sky lit the faces of gleeful looters and arsonists, incipient sadists, and ideological true believers. With smug satisfaction, Goebbels said, "The flames not only illuminate the end of the old era, they also light up the new."
Let's also remember that fueling the fire that night were works by Heinrich Heine, the 19th Century German lyric poet born of an assimilated Jewish family. With chilling prescience, Heine had a century before written, "Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people." 
http://www.adl.org/ADL_Opinions/Holocaust/20080507-JP+Op-ed.htm




atursvcMaam -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 3:37:15 PM)

if the books are in attack formation before they are burned do they go straight to paradise?  Do they get to consort with fresh journals?




Yourscum -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 4:32:25 PM)

I wouldn't say burn it no. But the qua-ran and the bibles should have warning labels on them, and should not be aloud to be read to minors.




Aneirin -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 5:03:54 PM)

In this modern age books are a waste of trees, but better the trees be used than wasted, so burning books of any kind is an afront to nature long before it is an afront to groups of people.

But instead of countering the action of these dick heads that wish to burn the Qur'an by burning the bible, better it would be to burn the fucking church these unchristian people attend, for surely they are acting against anything god said about loving thy neighbour and tolerance. To go against god, who are they said to be in league with ? This church could in effect be an unholy place fit for burning, perhaps the land on which the church stands needs purging of evil by fire.





Kirata -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 6:22:33 PM)

I always thought a "quarun" was a race between four people.

K.




GotSteel -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 8:00:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
The Koran is not a bad book. 

I don't know about that, since it promotes a faith based religion I consider it bad. There's also the matter of a few hundred passages that are pretty horrible.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.  (Qur'an 9:29 Yusufali)

"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." (Qur'an 3:56 Yusufali)

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Qur'an 8:12 Yusufali)





hlen5 -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 8:35:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I always thought a "quarun" was a race between four people.

K.



[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

So would a quarum be four people chatting or having drinks??




GotSteel -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 8:35:45 PM)

Burning the Qur'an or any other book currently in print is pointless. By buying copies to burn they are just encouraging the publisher to print more. If the goal is to piss off muslims then they are probably better of drawing pictures of Mohammed and saving a few bucks.




hlen5 -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/5/2010 8:45:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I had a wild idea of burning a bunch of bibles on the 11th just to show solidarity with (observant) Muslims, and I'm a Christian.


I am okay with this.  How many do I need to contribute?


How much shipping can you afford??

(Please note I said "wild idea"!!).




Vendaval -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 12:48:25 AM)

This is what happens when ignorance and fear and hatred go on public display.




truckinslave -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 5:10:31 AM)

The first question, to me is: will the government let them do it?

My guess is: Hell no, 1st Amendment be damned, burn the flag, burn the Bible, but not the Koran.
That answer might change at the level of SCOTUS.

The second question, to me is: if they are prohibited by the government from burning the Koran, will the ACLU help them subsequently to pursue their First Amendment Rights?

I wouldn't make book either way on that one.




ShoreBound149 -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 5:16:23 AM)

These Dove World folks are serious.





ShoreBound149 -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 5:20:56 AM)

I was wondering what happened to Paulie_Walnuts since the Sopranos...




StrangerThan -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 6:05:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Burning the Qur'an or any other book currently in print is pointless. By buying copies to burn they are just encouraging the publisher to print more. If the goal is to piss off muslims then they are probably better of drawing pictures of Mohammed and saving a few bucks.


I'd tend to agree with that given the level of protests over the two types of incidents. Apparently cartoons will get a bounty over your head however, while burning the book doesn't. So maybe it's safer to have the bonfire.

Either way, as you noted, the concept is pretty much self defeating if they're buying copies to burn. I imagine publishers don't care much what is being done with them as long as they're making profit.




Aylee -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 7:47:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I had a wild idea of burning a bunch of bibles on the 11th just to show solidarity with (observant) Muslims, and I'm a Christian.

I find that I like this idea.

I have about 9 to add.  When and where? 

Umm. . .  do we bring our copies of the Koran too?




Aylee -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 7:50:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I had a wild idea of burning a bunch of bibles on the 11th just to show solidarity with (observant) Muslims, and I'm a Christian.


I am okay with this.  How many do I need to contribute?


How much shipping can you afford??

(Please note I said "wild idea"!!).


Sorry, I have about 9 in the house.  Hubby is chistian, I am not.  However I have read it.  The eating up of children by bears is distasteful. 




Hillwilliam -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 8:48:29 AM)

Does anyone else find it ironic that this bunch calls themselves "The Dove World Outreach Center"?




dcnovice -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 8:49:19 AM)

I do.




juliaoceania -> RE: should they burn the quarun? (9/6/2010 10:43:06 AM)

Replace "Koran" with the New and Old testaments and then tell me what you think of it

I am against book burning, or destruction of any art.




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