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Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/22/2006 4:23:35 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I see quite a few musical theatre fans here and that is also very, very true of gay men and somewhat true of lesbians.  Is there a connection for you of your love of musical theatre and your interest in wiitwd?
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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/23/2006 5:24:16 PM   
QuietDom


Posts: 255
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline 		I have a semi-related connection: One of the things I'd expect from a sub is that'd she'd be able to sit through a four or five hour performance of a Wagnerian opera with me, and remain pleasant company throughout.  Of course, someone with that level of devotion might consider herself a slave instead...

(in reply to ladychatterley)
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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/23/2006 5:35:17 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Really good question.

Although I'm very straight, I've been very active in musical theatre since the early 90's....haven't run across openly kink-friendly people yet, but it's a really interesting theory!  I never thought of them as being related.

But, the one time I played publicly at Paddles in NYC, I absolutely LOVED being center stage, naked in front of people, being whipped and cropped.  When people clapped and one guy kept telling my partner over and over that he was a lucky man, I found it to be quite a rush and I found myself "playing up" to the audience with my reactions.  So maybe they are related?

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/23/2006 5:51:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Not for me.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/23/2006 7:40:44 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I think, and I could be wrong here, but I think thems of us that didn't fit into the status quo in adolescents may have been more likely to enjoy our parents LPs of old show tunes.  All my peers seemed to have a place they fit in.  Show tunes were the one place during adolescence I could dream that I'd find my 'corner of the sky.'  D.A. Miller wrote a great book (“Place for Us”) about being a gay teenager and living out his life through show tunes--I kept thinking ‘I did that too!’ and so it just made me wonder.

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 12:55:59 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Does Monty Python count as musical theatre?
" Always look on the bright side of life......"


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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 1:04:28 AM   
slaveofdarkhold


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting theory.
I'm certainly into musical theatre, but I'm into theatre of all types. You certainly tend to meet some very unusual people in the theatre and it wouldnt surprise me if there was some sort of correlation, no matter how faint.

I think theatre is a form of escapism- we try on roles different from our own lives without having to face the consequences. You could argue that (for some people at least, YMMV) BDSM is also a form of escapism- we may take on the role of a harsh Mistress or a devoted slave without having everyone think we're bossy/taking advantage of us. We may get the same kind of adrenaline rush from performing on stage as we get from a BDSM scene. Also, people attracted to the theatre tend to be extremely creative and able to express themselves, two important qualities in BDSM.

Just a thought and maybe a little off topic as I'm refering more to performers than to people who just enjoy to watch but you got me thinking there. hmmmm....

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 1:05:10 AM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

Does Monty Python count as musical theatre?
" Always look on the bright side of life......"




Monty Python counts for everything!

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 1:44:17 AM   
MstrTiger


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/14/2006
From: UK
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What about the Monty Python Sketch with the lumberjack song where Michel Palin dresses up as a woman with all the Mounties singing in the background that is slightly kinky. I have not encountered someone with one before though it is possible to have a spam fetish?

I would not say that is it very, very true that gay men are interested in the musical theatre anymore than the average population even though a lot of people who are closely involved with the theatre are gay its not really the same thing, I honestly don’t know another gay man who is remotely interested in it.

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 1:57:33 AM   
MstrTiger


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/14/2006
From: UK
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I realise I am slow, though I have just put your title and text together and I would just like to point out that I am slightly pissed that you would accuse someone of being a deviant on account of there innate sexuality though I am perfectly happy with being called a deviant on account of my ‘learned’ sexual role. I realise it might have been a unintentional oversight so I will not get on my high horse and pick up my ultimate lance of bitchslap on account of that.

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 2:32:43 AM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Another closet so many want to come out of?
I don't really like musical theatre, but I did like the wierd aspect of some late 50's and 60's movie musicals with the wild abstract sets and jagged jazz music and dance. They looked like what society was trying to be, behind the closed doors.
I find current musical theatre to be trite and commercial on the whole. At the level of current Disney films and remakes bent into the populist now.
But ohhhhh how I would love to cut loose and dance like that. Wear the outfit that would show any moment of My mood to all. Have Sid as My perfectly matched partner in the passion of the dance. ( I don't know how to spell her last name, Charise? )

Walking through Osborne Village late one night, a police car snuck up on Me and hit the spotlight. I was in a silly mood, so I cut a few moves in a showy tap sort of vein. They gave Me a few toots on the siren and rolled off. My moment in the spotlight :)

< Message edited by Kedikat -- 4/24/2006 2:33:50 AM >

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 4:57:19 AM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger
I would just like to point out that I am slightly pissed that you would accuse someone of being a deviant on account of there innate sexuality though I am perfectly happy with being called a deviant on account of my ‘learned’ sexual role.


I was using deviant in the denotative meaning.  According to dictionary.com de·vi·ant    (d v-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.
n.
One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

I don't think there is much question that most of wiitwd differs from the norm.  Personally, I find the norm on many, many things pretty darn toxic.  It is true that the word has negative connotations. And I think we, as a community, need to start looking at how 'moral' is defined--why is it 'immoral' to emit bodily fluids in a way that deviates from the norm, but it is perfectly 'moral' to emit thousands of tons of carbon dioxide that will stay in the atmosphere for 100 years? 

Until we (and I'm not out, so I can't really comment) start speaking up not just for our right to do wiitwd, but why it is moral (if not normal) to simply be who we are, we will be fighting the negative connotations of deviant.

< Message edited by ladychatterley -- 4/24/2006 5:08:50 AM >

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 5:05:50 AM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat
I find current musical theatre to be trite and commercial on the whole. At the level of current Disney films and remakes bent into the populist now.
spotlight :)

The current quality of musical theatre makes me wish it were as good as a Disney film; trite barely scratches the surface--inane, superficial, commercialistic, etc.  Two good shows in the last five years, and they both bombed after the idiotic and sadistic Ben Brantley (NY Times critic--not criticizing another user) trashed them.

But, oh my heavens, when it is good, it is incredible!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger
I would not say that is it very, very true that gay men are interested in the musical theatre anymore than the average population even though a lot of people who are closely involved with the theatre are gay its not really the same thing, I honestly don’t know another gay man who is remotely interested in it.

I think that, in the States at least, there is a small subset of gay men who LOVE musical theatre.  There is a generation gap--some younger men really disdain the musical theatre guys.  And it may be that gay men are not much more likely to like musical theatre than the average person, but, in the States, men who LOVE musical theatre are much much more likely to be gay. 

(in reply to Kedikat)
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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 6:07:28 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ladychatterley
I was using deviant in the denotative meaning.  According to dictionary.com de·vi·ant    (d v-nt)
adj.
Differing from a norm or from the accepted standards of a society.
n.
One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.

I don't think there is much question that most of wiitwd differs from the norm.  Personally, I find the norm on many, many things pretty darn toxic.  It is true that the word has negative connotations.


Interesting question  lady chatterly.
I too, think it's interesting to find out  from people what their interpretion of "the" norm, a norm, or under what circumstances whether what they may perceive as "the norm" matters.

Personally, I like to sing - and was in a local production 3 years ago of Pirates of Penzance and this year am in my town's local symphonic chorus. I don't think (for me), there is much connection but - think it's a very interesting theoretical question all the same and am glad you asked it. 

I suppose some in any community would think the character Christine in the play and movie The Phantom of the Opera is submissive (and in some connotations of bdsm community, that if she'd been a "true" slave" she would have run off with The Phantom vs. being rescued by Raoul (her long-lost "boyfriend")?

That play, Phantom of the Opera insinuated that Roaul was Christine's "boyfriend/lover", BUT (to me) - that interpretation was really left to the imagination of  individual audience members. I never thought the audience got to find out much about Raoul, when I saw the movie or the play.

To me- it would be up to the characters Raoul and Christine (or Christine and The Phantom, had Raoul not intervened in the nick of time and "saved" her from the The Phantom), to decide if that's a  "true" interpretation.

To me, The Phantom was portrayed in that play as a "sympathetic character"
- BUT -

In the play and the movie it seemed to be left up to the imagination what would have happened if Christine had simply said: "I don't want to be saved by you Raoul"  and stayed in The Phantom's dungeon - to be made into an expert musical soloist and please The Phantom's whims (and delight in that as much as if she'd done that for Raoul (of course Roaul could have payed for her singing lessons, and, maybe she didn't want to live in a sewer) - BUT  - for the more literal minded who might read this, I'll qualify that by saying I believe it's all relative;
that I believe one person's figurative "sewer" is another's luxurious castle.

 
SO - Christine could have perhaps enjoyed The Phantom's company so much she would have ended up not caring about the rats - (The Phantom seemed to have those under control, when I saw the movie and the play, he'd seemingly made himself pretty comfortable in his "underground hideaway" and seeemed interested in capturing Christine's mind, heart and soul even more than Roual (and am speaking figuratively, referring to these characters as I saw them portrayed onscreen and onstage, when some people knew much less about how to decrease toxic atmospheric gases).

lady chatterly: I am going to NYC for 2 days on my way to Europe at the end of May and notice you live there; two of the 10 folks I am going with have visited NYC several times and say the London version of Phantom of the Opera is much better than the NYC version (I know the NYC version has been playing in NYC a long time now). Am wondering what did you think of the NYC version (if you've seen it). I am undecided and have never been to NYC

- any opinion by anyone who has seen the NYC version of The Phantom  of the Opera would be appreciated (e-mail me on the other side if you have an opinion of NYC version of The Phantom you can share). Am NOT trying to hi-jack this thread, btw and think it's an interesting question lady chatterly posed. - susanofO  





< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/24/2006 7:10:59 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 7:08:16 AM   
MstrTiger


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/14/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
Ok your point is well taken usually when people say deviant they mean it in a thou art an unnatural abomination kind of a way. I don’t think there are many people outside of George Bush’s office who think carbon emissions are moral anymore even the Archbishop of Canterbury said that it is mans duty to take care of the planet and that anyone who does not do that will carry a heavy burden in the eyes of the lord, I think is a sort of a Archbishopy way of saying are your feet warm yet George I wonder if he will listen given how intrested he always seams to be in doing things in the the name of god etc. I think there is quite a difference between gay men in America and ones in Britain as far as show tunes are concerned anyway.

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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 7:21:45 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Suddenly Seymour, is standing beside me..........

Ron


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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 7:24:22 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am not a George Bush fan myself; I think he ran due to his perhaps feeling obligated by feeling he'd inherited some kind of family "legacy"; I also think he's been quite insulated (maybe not entirely consciously) by relying perhaps too much on his "advisers" (some of whom may not be all that competent, but he's perhaps too nice to "fire" anyone I guess. Whay kind of executive does this make him? Hmm...This country will be in debt for decades thanks to the Iraq war (don't get me started on Donald Rumsfeld - but I also realize he's probably not going to "retire", hehe). We're stuck with them both until the next election. And if I'm really concerned about it I can write my Congressman and Senator(which I have done before, btw).

It must in some ways, be very difficult to be President; but you run for public office and I suppose must have a tough hide and love power and public service or both.
I can't cry too hard for George since he'll be retiring with millions and can write a book after his term (and make milllions more, as many President's do. I notice the national debt was lots lower in Bill Clinton's term, and of course he had to put up with people making much ado about Monica Lewinsky (like it had anything at all to do with his capability as an executive) - I liked Bill Clinton,  and think he appears to have "bounced  back"  from whatever that "scandal" may have done to his psyche nicely. He is doing a lot of work trying to decrease AIDs in Africa and done PR for hurricane Katrina vicitms.   

I saw Henry Kissinger on a cable show recently and someone asked him what he thought about whether the war in Iraq was a good or bad idea - I noticed he'd seemingly gotten his version of the "art of diplomacy" down; he said things insinuating "only time will tell" and managed to talk for 20 minutes and not really answer the question.

My favorite quote from Henry Kissinger: "The nice thing about being a celebrity is that when you bore people they think it's their fault. " lol! 

Sorry if this post got the thread off-track(if so please ignore). Back to the question at hand - it's an interesting one, I think.

- susanofO

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/24/2006 7:38:24 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MstrTiger)
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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 11:30:30 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I do think that Theater (not just Musical) tends to draw a higher percentage of people who have a different mindset than the norm.  I am very involved with theater in My area, and have several very good friends who are gay.  We, for the most part, straight or gay, have a tendency to be looser and less restricted.  I have found that I can be more Myself, tease, and have even come out more to select friends in My theater Family.  More so than I would in other areas. Comments have a tendency to fly, and things that we find amusing would probably shock some of the patrons who come to every show.  If only they knew what goes on back stage!  Still, it is important to pick and choose how much is shared, regardless.  It is not a rule that holds true 100% of the time, and one would be foolish to openly discuss certain private choices.
As the the NY/Broadway versions of Phantom, vs local versions, I honestly think it depends on the touring company.  I did not see Phantom in NY (Les Mis totally blew Me away, though!), but I loved the touring company when it came to Az.  The show was wonderful...I can't compare.  My daughter has seen both though, and she loves the show.   However, she enjoyed the Az production, as much as the Broadway production.  On the whole, we have great theater here, and great touring companies.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

- any opinion by anyone who has seen the NYC version of The Phantom  of the Opera would be appreciated (e-mail me on the other side if you have an opinion of NYC version of The Phantom you can share). Am NOT trying to hi-jack this thread, btw and think it's an interesting question lady chatterly posed. - susanofO  







_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 11:38:30 AM   
CmotDribbler


Posts: 83
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: canada
Status: offline 		I have always been a large fan of Musical Theatre, and have recently started getting Kitten involved in my various favorites. We went and saw Cats during there 25th anniversary this year, was quite memorable.
I don't know if there is a connection between Mucials and .... whatever that acronym stands for o.O;
But i have noticed that yes, alot of people i know in the kink community do enjoy musicals.


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RE: Musical theatre and Sexual Deviants - 4/24/2006 2:22:23 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I like musical theater! -susanofO

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/24/2006 2:31:05 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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