gift of submission? (Full Version)

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hardcybermaster -> gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:32:57 PM)

right,a quicky about "the gift of submission."
It must sound nice to the person who writes it,sort of romantic yet meaningful.....lets face it ladies,most men are a lot stronger than most women,ie.we could easily overpower you.So any time you let a man into your house(not the gasman but someone you have romantic intentions with) or go to another mans house you are giving him the gift of TRUST.You are trusting that he is not a nutter and isn't going to do anything crazy.so leave the gift of submission out,it's trust that you are giving and that doesn't change just because you are in a bdsm enviroment



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:36:18 PM)

I dont go for "submission is her gift"'your soul, your heart and then your body, a good mind fuck bring her too me..Bounty'



rednicky -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:43:24 PM)

I agree to an extent. It is a matter of trust but a trust on both parts. A woman does not need to be as strong as a man to give him a hard time. Say a guy does want to tango and force you into submission. He's taking a biiig risk taking on a fully competent woman (sober) who doesn't want to do something. Yes she will fight. Yes, she probably will lose. But not before biting off an ear. Jabbing an eyeball. Biting off...something else. She could dig her fingernails in the soft tissue (soft on everyone, man or woman) between the front of the shoulder and throat and twist her hand. That'll stop anyone. She could spit in his face, as he tries to do her (that would throw anyone's concentration off). A woman could do a lot. And breaking a finger is not hard. It only takes 3 pounds of weight to tear an earlobe. Don't underestimate the female form. Submission is a gift.



hardcybermaster -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:46:30 PM)

I know women can fight,that wasn;t the point.I was trying to say I am a little fed up with the cliche,it's trust you are giving



rednicky -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:51:33 PM)

I know you were saying you were fed up. I was addressing 'why' you felt that way. You felt that way because:

"lets face it ladies,most men are a lot stronger than most women,ie.we could easily overpower you.So any time you let a man into your house(not the gasman but someone you have romantic intentions with) or go to another mans house you are giving him the gift of TRUST.You are trusting that he is not a nutter and isn't going to do anything crazy"

Your reasoning was a little off. That's all.



hardcybermaster -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:56:30 PM)

ermmm no,you finished with submission is a gift,I say trust is a gift.The overpowering bit was just a scenario



juliaoceania -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 12:58:19 PM)

I am trying to discern what your point is...




rednicky -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:00:03 PM)

I didn't disagree that trust was a gift. All I said was that it's a gift that both parties give to each other. Submission is a gift because heaven help you if she doesn't want to give it. MY example is what would happen if she chose not to submit to you. I agree that the 'submission is a gift' statement is a cheesy one but it still carries some weight.



ResidentSadist -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:01:17 PM)

I'm not gonna' argue the trust point
. . . or whether submission is taken or given
. . . or whether it's valid for people that can't submit to someone that is physically weaker than them
. . . or how many ear biting, ball kicking Dommes it would collectively take to bring my ass down

I will address that your OP talks to the point of a narrow band of situations for Dommes only.   I know many Dommes, pro and otherwise that don't trust their submissives . . . and in fact are incredibly well armed.  In the reverse, this lack of trust does not seem a prolific among male Doms (sometimes to their regret) in the hetro Male-Dom./ fem-sub community. 

Good luck with your thread . . .  I have no idea what you have in mind by focusing on how dangerous it might be for a Domme to trust you.   



AquaticSub -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:08:26 PM)

Weee..... I'm giving him the same gift I gave my air conditioner repair man that summer before Val moved in and it was just me and the cats.

Isn't he so damn lucky?



hardcybermaster -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:11:38 PM)

residentsadist,the post was not personal in nature,I would have to be very badly wronged before I would react with any sort of physical violence,and it wasn't aimed at Dommes either,I was merely shooting across the bows of an annoying cliche



Tantriqu -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:16:42 PM)

I have never felt unsafe, even after a fear-mongering troll topic.
I, like most women, can seriously hurt a man, and overpower him without even leaving a mark. you'll need your gasmask against a couple of them! but that leaves many other spots open and [how I love the word] vulnerable. Strength isn't everything; balance and leverage is.
And bullies tend to be cowards and frightened of pain, which makes it that much easier to just flick 'em on the **£*%^(" and leave them curled up on their sides, crying bloody tears.

A golden rule is I don't tie anyone up until I know they'll happily assume the position, and I don't let any man's mouth near my clit until I know he's happily smiling.

Since I'm not interested in gamma men, I take a man's gift of submission very seriously; my domination of him is also a gift to be prized and respected every time. It's mutual trust too, which is why I insist on great messaging and vanilla dates first, and making sure he's comfortable: if a man won't do this or that on a vanilla date, he's never going to make it to doing THIS or THAT or THERE! RIGHT THERE! behind closed doors.
And every good man begs to do just that.



AquaticSub -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:17:16 PM)

No more annoying than the idea that a woman would only have to protect herself from the man she's involved with.

Quite frankly, I don't trust easily or well. Men or women. Any stranger in my house is a threat. Anyone in my house has to trust that I won't snap and use any of the assorted weaponery I keep around on them.

The idea of the helpless female is outdated, cliche, and offensive at this point. Any man getting involved in BDSM runs much the same risks as the woman can hurt/kill him once he's tied and, even as the bottom, call the cops and claim abuse/rape.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:21:07 PM)

I suppose you could say that trust is a gift (although I'm not sure WHY you'd say that).  But I am still confused about what that has to do with the "gift of submission".  They are two completely different and unrelated concepts.  There is no reason to believe that they are mutually exclusive.  So why are you implying that they are?

Also, as someone else mentioned, your assertion seems focused solely on female Domme/male sub situations.  What about the many other combinations?  Is it possible that a female sub can give a male dom the "gift of submission", or is that also the "gift of trust"?  Personally, I think he is receiving the "gift of a blowjob"  ;-)

BTW, what was the point of this thread again?



hardcybermaster -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:25:41 PM)

it has got lost in a forest of musings on physical strength and fighting skills,forget it



Charles6682 -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:28:53 PM)

I think true "submission" is a gift.Alot of so-called "submissive's" aren't about submitting but are only about getting their rock's off.To truly find a genuine submissive is actually serious about submitting is a gift.I think a true submissive should be just as concerned that they are not getting tied up by some nutjob.That is trust on the submissive to give their submission to someone else.I think it say's common sense should play a role,that the submissive know's who their Dom/Domme is first.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 1:37:33 PM)

~FR~
Okay. Whatever. This is my opinion. Domination and submission are Daddy's & my gifts to each other. Submission has to be freely given at some point, even if it's one-time consent in the beginning for the duration of the relationship, because if it's taken against one's will it's nonconsensual and that could wander into some dangerous territory legally. This is real life, not the movies. If I was forced to submit when I hadn't entered a D/s relationship with Someone voluntarily of my own free will, there would be hell to pay. Call it whatever you want, but that makes sense to me.

~edited to add~ I agree that there needs to be trust involved. I would never submit to Someone I did not trust. But I also do not submit to everyone I trust, I only submit to the One.

~sweetsub~



Zevar -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 2:02:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

right,a quicky about "the gift of submission."
It must sound nice to the person who writes it,sort of romantic yet meaningful.....lets face it ladies,most men are a lot stronger than most women,ie.we could easily overpower you.So any time you let a man into your house(not the gasman but someone you have romantic intentions with) or go to another mans house you are giving him the gift of TRUST.You are trusting that he is not a nutter and isn't going to do anything crazy.so leave the gift of submission out,it's trust that you are giving and that doesn't change just because you are in a bdsm enviroment



To begin it appears as though you have presented few disjointed thoughts on the subject of submission in comparison with trust. Although not presented in a methodical manner, nonetheless I will reply with the following:

It is factual that there is a level of trust that is interwoven into submission. The gift of submission as it is has been known by myself is not devoid a bond of trust either when submission is offered in its awesome beauty.

A man cannot force submission from the heart ( inner most deep thoughts) of a submissive lady. I believe he must inspire her heart to submit thus trust is integrated within the submission offered. I liken it to being thirsty and drinking a cold glass of water to quench my thirst. I do not get my thirst quenched without drinking the water. Nor do I drink the water without the container being filled with the water. Thus I seek the quench yet must drink the water that has filled the container. So is submission interwoven with trust and the gift of submission.

A gift denotes something that is given to somebody, usually to provide pleasure or to show gratitude. Such is submission unto dominance. One to another, submission offered unto dominance OR dominance inspiring the gift of submission that is freely given through a bond of trust equally experienced. Such has been the gift of submission in my experience.

Take care!



Rochsub2009 -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 2:11:01 PM)

Yup, Zevar nailed it.  The two concepts are related, but not the same.  



VaguelyCurious -> RE: gift of submission? (9/11/2010 2:40:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

But I also do not submit to everyone I trust, I only submit to the One.

This, OP, is the issue with your rant. Not who could beat up whom, not who's in whose house-but that while trust is a necessary condition of submission it is not a sufficient one-there needs to be something else there. That's basic logic. And if someone wants to call that extra bit if themselves a gift, who on earth do you think you are to argue?



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