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There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destroyed - 9/13/2010 5:56:29 PM

Owner59

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One on the 17th floor and a prayer room off of the Windows On The World restaurant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?_r=2&src=tptw

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 5:56:53 PM

FirmhandKY

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So what?

Firm

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 5:59:54 PM

StrangerThan

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well, good. See, and you thought Americans were intolerant.

Tsk tsk

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:02:57 PM

Vendaval

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I think the comments by Mr. Mamdouh illustrate the heart of the matter.

And as Mayor Bloomberg of NYC commented on "The Daily Show", it is an election year.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-26-2010/michael-bloomberg

Thanks for sharing, O59.

"Such memories have been overtaken, though, by others. Mr. Siby’s cousin and roommate, a chef named Abdoul-Karim Traoré, died at Windows on the World on Sept. 11, as did at least one other Muslim staff member, a banquet server named Shabir Ahmed from Bangladesh.

Fekkak Mamdouh, an immigrant from Morocco who was head waiter, attended a worship service just weeks after the attacks that honored the estimated 60 Muslims who died. Far from being viewed as objectionable, the service was conducted with formal support from city, state and federal authorities, who arranged for buses to transport imams and mourners to Warren Street.

There, within sight of the ruins, they chanted salat al-Ghaib, the funeral prayer when there is not an intact corpse.

“It is a shame, shame, shame,” Mr. Mamdouh, 49, said of the Park51 dispute. “Sometimes I wake up and think, this is not what I came to America for. I came here to build this country together. People are using this issue for their own agenda. It’s designed to keep the hate going.” "

< Message edited by Vendaval -- 9/13/2010 6:07:07 PM >

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:04:37 PM

samboct

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Gee Firm

How about this quote from the article?

"“It is a shame, shame, shame,” Mr. Mamdouh, 49, said of the Park51 dispute. “Sometimes I wake up and think, this is not what I came to America for. I came here to build this country together. People are using this issue for their own agenda. It’s designed to keep the hate going.”

Seems to me this guy nailed the driving force behind the current brouhaha.

Sam

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Post #: 5

RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:09:01 PM

Aneirin

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So, there is a history of a mosque being on the very spot, not one, but two even and there is so much uproar for one being proposed to be built a couple of blocks away to replace an already overcrowded place of worship. Now of those Muslims that already live in the area, it is possible they also lost loved ones in the atrocity, for they also were attacked by the terrorists, yet they are being made out to be in league with the terrorists because of their religion.

Can anyone see the US people are yet again being played by those with political interests, people are again being the tool of those that seek power on the backs of decent people.

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:09:26 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Gee Firm

How about this quote from the article?

"“It is a shame, shame, shame,” Mr. Mamdouh, 49, said of the Park51 dispute. “Sometimes I wake up and think, this is not what I came to America for. I came here to build this country together. People are using this issue for their own agenda. It’s designed to keep the hate going.”

Seems to me this guy nailed the driving force behind the current brouhaha.

Sam

Sam,

The OP made it plain that this thread was about there being two places of Muslim worship in the WTC.

No one that I've read in any of the threads has said anything that relates to that issue at all, just the fact that some believe that the planned mosque is inappropriate (although certainly not illegal) at the time and place it is considered being built.

So, again ... what does there being two places of Muslim worship in the WTC have to do with anything?

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 7

RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:26:57 PM

Vendaval

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In part because there is a historical precedence for Islamic worship at the WTC and 2 mosques near the WTC for decades.

"In Lower Manhattan, 2 Mosques Have Firm Roots"

One mosque is conservative, and the other is reputed to be among the most progressive in the city — making the downtown Muslim community a quintessentially New York combination of immigrants and native New Yorkers, traditionalists and spiritual seekers.

But what the two mosques have in common — besides the sense of celebration and camaraderie that comes at the beginning of Ramadan, the holiest month of the Islamic calendar, in which Muslims fast from sunup to sundown, give alms and focus on self-improvement — is that both have existed for decades, largely unnoticed, blocks from the World Trade Center site.

Masjid Manhattan, on Warren Street, four blocks from ground zero, was founded in 1970. Masjid al-Farah, formerly on Mercer Street, moved to its present location on West Broadway, about 12 blocks from ground zero, in 1985. Both mosques — essentially one-room operations — routinely turn people away for lack of space."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/nyregion/14mosque.html

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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(in reply to FirmhandKY)

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 6:40:15 PM

Aneirin

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If there is a precedence, what's the problem, it was ok then, but it's not now ?

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 7:11:02 PM

thornhappy

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Exactly.

(in reply to Aneirin)

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 7:27:50 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Sam,

The OP made it plain that this thread was about there being two places of Muslim worship in the WTC.

No one that I've read in any of the threads has said anything that relates to that issue at all, just the fact that some believe that the planned mosque is inappropriate (although certainly not illegal) at the time and place it is considered being built.

So, again ... what does there being two places of Muslim worship in the WTC have to do with anything?

Firm

You know very well what is has to do with the issue, but you are deliberately ignoring it.

There was some guy on here who used to prattle on about confirmation bias all the time.

I forget his name.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 11

RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 7:28:22 PM

footsniffa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So, there is a history of a mosque being on the very spot, not one, but two even and there is so much uproar for one being proposed to be built a couple of blocks away to replace an already overcrowded place of worship. Now of those Muslims that already live in the area, it is possible they also lost loved ones in the atrocity, for they also were attacked by the terrorists, yet they are being made out to be in league with the terrorists because of their religion.

Can anyone see the US people are yet again being played by those with political interests, people are again being the tool of those that seek power on the backs of decent people.

As I said in my first post here: rubes being suckered.

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 12

RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 8:13:01 PM

samboct

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Hi Firm

"So, again ... what does there being two places of Muslim worship in the WTC have to do with anything?"

Well, if you don't think that there's a problem building a mosque a few blocks away- then you're right- not a damn thing.

If you do think there's an issue, then I'd say there's a double standard double standard going on...

Sam

(in reply to footsniffa)

Post #: 13

RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 8:25:38 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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This thread is kind of the litmus test for the purposely dense on this issue. So far, FirmhandKY is testing "willfully clueless".

Oh HOW, did we ever survive as a nation when those two INSULTING mosques existed in the Twin Towers! The Muslims had taken over the country with those two mosques, and we were in their thrall, though we hardly even knew it! We were speaking Arabic and praying to Mecca five times a day! Victory mosques! Victory Mosques! Be afraid! Be afraid! And remember to vote Republican in November! You know, the party that protected us so well on 9/11!

(in reply to samboct)

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:05:34 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

This thread is kind of the litmus test for the purposely dense on this issue. So far, FirmhandKY is testing "willfully clueless".

Oh HOW, did we ever survive as a nation when those two INSULTING mosques existed in the Twin Towers! The Muslims had taken over the country with those two mosques, and we were in their thrall, though we hardly even knew it! We were speaking Arabic and praying to Mecca five times a day! Victory mosques! Victory Mosques! Be afraid! Be afraid! And remember to vote Republican in November! You know, the party that protected us so well on 9/11!

Talk about willfully clueless ...

I'll use your post to address all of the ones attempting to make some kind of hay out of there being two "mosques" in the WTC before it's destruction.

Before the destruction of the WTC, there were two "mosque" in the buildings. GREAT!

The WTC was destroyed by Muslim terrorist. Bad.

Muslims now wish to place a mosque at or very near the WTC. Bad taste.

See how that works?

Before. "Muslim Prayer areas". No big deal.

Destruction. By Muslims. For "religious reasons". Thousands dead.

After. Muslims wish to build a mosque "at" the site.

See those words in the middle? The destruction by Muslim terrorists? That's what's different between the "Before" and "After" words.

That's why it's a different situation.

Firm

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:08:39 PM

StayPutDarling

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Wow.

This subject generally pisses me off.

First off, it doesn't matter how many mosques are near the former WTC. Or in it. Or around it. Or in the general vicinity. Or even kinda close. Or even 500 miles away.

Want to know why?

BECAUSE THE (planned) CORDOBA HOUSE IS NOT A MOSQUE.

It's a community center. For Muslims.

Just like the JCC three blocks from my house is NOT A SYNAGOGUE.

It's a community center. For Jews.

I can't think of a viable, wide-spread Christian comparable, otherwise I'd name that as an example too.

Second off....

Oh. Wait. I have no second off. Why?

Because the planned Cordoba House is STILL not a mosque.

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:11:51 PM

SuzanneKneeling

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Uh, okay Firm. That was the saddest hand-waving evasion of a point I've seen in some time. Congrats with that.

So this proposed building should be taken as a "victory mosque" because some other Muslims destroyed two Muslim prayer centers in the twin towers. Got it. A monument to Islam's victory over Islam. And the sky is green and the moon is made of green cheese. On Tuesdays. Did I miss anything?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:15:37 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SuzanneKneeling

Uh, okay Firm. That was the saddest hand-waving evasion of a point I've seen in some time. Congrats with that.

So this proposed building should be taken as a "victory mosque" because some other Muslims destroyed two Muslim prayer centers in the twin towers. Got it. A monument to Islam's victory over Islam. And the sky is green and the moon is made of green cheese. On Tuesdays. Did I miss anything?

Yeah you missed several thousand years of history and the statements of many Muslims who know the culture far better than you do.

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:24:20 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Talk about willfully clueless ...

I'll use your post to address all of the ones attempting to make some kind of hay out of there being two "mosques" in the WTC before it's destruction.

Before the destruction of the WTC, there were two "mosque" in the buildings. GREAT!

The WTC was destroyed by Muslim terrorist. Bad.

Muslims now wish to place a mosque at or very near the WTC. Bad taste.

See how that works?

Before. "Muslim Prayer areas". No big deal.

Destruction. By Muslims. For "religious reasons". Thousands dead.

After. Muslims wish to build a mosque "at" the site.

See those words in the middle? The destruction by Muslim terrorists? That's what's different between the "Before" and "After" words.

That's why it's a different situation.

Firm

You know Firm, I seem to recall a thread not too long ago when a doctor performing abortions was murdered by a Christian fundamentalist.

And if I recall correctly, you were one of the loudest voices complaining that all Christians opposed to abortion were being blamed for his actions.

How does that differ from what you are doing?

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

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RE: There were two mosques in the WTC,when it was destr... - 9/13/2010 9:28:44 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StayPutDarling

BECAUSE THE (planned) CORDOBA HOUSE IS NOT A MOSQUE.

Sorry, you are incorrect. This battle has been fought in other threads. I'm not sure which one, and am not going to make the effort to find it. Perhaps the poster who eventually had to admit that it was a mosque can pipe up with the links.

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 20

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