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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:25:59 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If the right were so worried about this, there wouldnt be any question of the tax breaks going to less than 250k.  They would have went with the public option, and helped make useful rather than fight the healthcare reforms, they would have made legislation that got our infrastructure up to competitive, they would have not shipped our money and souls overseas to make war for no reason. They would have not allowed the bailout.

They would have cursed in outrage when Bush vetoed the childrens insurance payment.

Be that as it may, there is plenty of bullshit left right and center that needs accounting for.    



The questions was clear, wasn't it?

When will the Dems and Obama "own it", regardless of who "caused it"?

Firm


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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:32:43 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		They own it now, in that sense, and have since January 20 2009.  But there are still republicans that own it and are distancing themselves from it as well.  

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:38:15 AM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
Joined: 12/20/2006
Status: offline 		Each and every year, millions upon millions of legal immigrants come into the US directly from the 3rd World, they add to the poverty rate.
Same reason states are running out of $ for schools, prisons etc.
The democrat base wants redistribution of wealth, they want Affirmative Action, government setasides etc. No way GOP can win them over.

quote:

The way that I would characterize our current immigration system, both in its permissive entry of illegals as well as the high level of very low-skilled immigrants that come in through the legal immigration system, it’s as if it’s a transnational welfare outreach. Spending 5 percent of GDP on means-tested welfare is not sufficient; we need to reach out and bring more people into the United States so that they can enroll in this system. The bottom line is that the U.S. has a very generous system of support for less-advantaged individuals and it would be very difficult to provide that level of support to essentially an unlimited inflow of low-skill individuals from the Third World. But that is what our immigration system currently does.

--ROBERT RECTOR, August 19 2009

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:41:48 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

When, exactly, does Obama and the Congressional Democrats finally "own" this?


You are kidding me, right? I bet you think the Great Depression was FDR's fault too

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:43:21 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The causes for the current recession have been building up for years, there is plenty of blame to go around. The U.S. standard of living has been in decline since the 1970's and two of the major reasons are the loss of manufacturing jobs and increased reliance on credit at high interest rates.


This...

When our government keeps making the risks of capitalism public and the gains private, it leads to this shit.

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 9:50:53 AM   
samboct


Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		"The questions was clear, wasn't it?

When will the Dems and Obama "own it", regardless of who "caused it"?

Firm "

Actually, its not clear at all. What exactly do you mean by "own"? Certainly not in the common parlance of this board where "owning" implies some type of long terms commitment between dom/dommes and submissives?

Do you mean propose some useful fixes?

Take responsibility for past fixes successes and failures?

Because many of the posters have clearly indicated a desire for the Republicans to "own" up to the drunken driving that took beached our economic ship of state onto the rocks. Until the Republicans stop drinking, it doesn't make a lot of sense to try and pull the ship off the beach, because it's just going to wind up back on the rocks- doing more damage. To get our ship of state afloat and navigable, both parties have got to agree on what some important goals are. I've seen little change in Republican truculence and intransigence in the past two years which bodes ill for our country. Is the Republican "leadership" any better than Newt Gingrich these days? Doesn't look like it.

While in theory, saying that it's time to quit pointing fingers and work together to solve the enormous challenges this country faces, in practice, it's been an abysmal failure. Yes, there are valid criticisms of the Democratic policies by the Republicans. Unfortunately, these valid criticisms are lost in a miasma of whining, self pitying, and obfuscatory claims by Republicans which seem to be mirrored on these boards.

In short, until there is some basic agreement on facts and goals by both parties, our country will proceed as a drunken sailor, swaying from side to side, until the ship founders and we look for someplace else to live. From my perspective, the Republican goal is "we want to be in charge- no matter what". Not surprisingly, while people are unhappy with the Democrats, they're even more unhappy with the Republicans because this overriding desire of the Republicans has brought us to this terrible place. Rather than listen to the people and try to govern well, the Republicans have made an utter shambles of our country in an orgy of self indulgence ranging from vindictive wars to massive deficits to an impeachment with no real basis.


Sam



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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:03:30 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		they already have owned it, to my knowledge
Ive not seen him deny ownership, Ive not seen him blame anyone, just that the problem has been around for a long time but no one cares about the poor in government, "only the middle class deserve saving"
to deny that is to deny you have a brain
simple



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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:13:10 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

"only the middle class deserve saving"


Much truth to this...

You know, there was a large scale effort to blame caddy driving black welfare queens for all of the economic problems facing this country a couple of decades ago... the republicans have consistently attempted to blame the poor for their own economic disenfranchisement and deride any attempt to help the poor. They are against unemployment benefits, for example, etc....

The discourse in the United States has consistently told people that if you lacked the wherewithal to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and make a go of it, then you were scum, basically. If you lose your job, your fault. If you lose your house, your fault. If you lose your 401k, your fault. If you lose your health insurance, your fault.... never looking at the richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer... both sides of the aisle have done this since Clinton and the rise of the Blue Dog Democrat (like that fucker Evan Bayh).

Lets face it, there is class warfare going on, but it isn't the poor against the middle class.... it is the rich against the middle class. The middle class is losing its wealth by subsidizing the military industrial complex, banks, big pharma, and the insurance industry for the rich to get richer...

Hopefully people will stop being dupes and see it before they, too, fall out of the middle class and under the poverty line.

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:23:21 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		the phrase," Im allright Jack, fuck you", is prevalent in more than the US, however the disparity is celebrated more.
Now middle class are losing their tenuous grasp and cant  see that the poor have naff all to do with it.
The phrase, There but for the grace of (insert your deity here) go I, should be worth more than it is





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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:29:24 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

The phrase, There but for the grace of (insert your deity here) go I, should be worth more than it is


What I have noticed is that when I point out how tough it has been on one person or another that i know, everyone says "Its been hard on a lot of people"... so perhaps there is a bit of increasing empathy out there?

Lets face it, the American lifestyle is not sustainable. Throwing stuff away, thinking that we can replace what we have with bigger, better, etc is unsustainable. I honestly think that our economy is not ever going to be what it once was. We had WWII and a devastated world to build our culture of wealth up on. We don't have that this time. Europe isn't devastated, and the economy is more global than ever. We are going to have to settle in with the idea that we aren't top dog anymore. It isn't all bad, mind you. There is something to be said for accepting this and increasing our quality of life instead of trying to increase the quantity of what we own.

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:39:55 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		one of the phrases that makes me wanna skin then disembowel the person that said it..
"If I can do it so can they"
I have never heard such a load of utter bullshit in my life.

Empathy.. is ridiculed, but I enjoy and embrace mine


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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:46:05 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Using fast reply......

I saw an article about this in my morning news in-box. My first thought was...."Hell, I spent most of the first half of my life living well within the poverty range. It really wasn't that horrible! There sure are worse things."


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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:51:44 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply......

I saw an article about this in my morning news in-box. My first thought was...."Hell, I spent most of the first half of my life living well within the poverty range. It really wasn't that horrible! There sure are worse things."



Only if you have a life threatening disease you cannot afford to have treated or you are living under a bridge with three kids... then there cannot be many worse things.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 10:58:26 AM   
LaTigresse


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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply......

I saw an article about this in my morning news in-box. My first thought was...."Hell, I spent most of the first half of my life living well within the poverty range. It really wasn't that horrible! There sure are worse things."



Only if you have a life threatening disease you cannot afford to have treated or you are living under a bridge with three kids... then there cannot be many worse things.


Agreed. I only have my own life experiences to reference. I was lucky to have affordable housing available. My parents did own their own dump and I think I was able to rent an apt for $80.00 a month when I was a single parent.

Not to mention great health and state medical aide if it should have been needed.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 12:00:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Using fast reply......

I saw an article about this in my morning news in-box. My first thought was...."Hell, I spent most of the first half of my life living well within the poverty range. It really wasn't that horrible! There sure are worse things."



Only if you have a life threatening disease you cannot afford to have treated or you are living under a bridge with three kids... then there cannot be many worse things.


Agreed. I only have my own life experiences to reference. I was lucky to have affordable housing available. My parents did own their own dump and I think I was able to rent an apt for $80.00 a month when I was a single parent.

Not to mention great health and state medical aide if it should have been needed.



I think that this is the point, those safety nets for the poor are shrinking, and certain politicians were dragged kicking and screaming into giving even children any sort of medical care. These same politicians want the middle class to pay for tax cuts for the richest people. It is galling, actually.

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 2:54:27 PM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		I agree.

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/17/2010 3:03:05 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		By "own it" do you mean take responsibility and work on improving the situation? Every politician regardless of party affiliation needs to work on improving the economy. That applies to D.C. and in my case, Sacramento. California is now on day 79 of a budget deadlock.


< Message edited by Vendaval -- 9/17/2010 3:04:19 PM >

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/22/2010 12:09:18 PM   
DomYngBlk


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Status: offline 		Is he being an "economic girly man"?

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/22/2010 12:48:51 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
What I have noticed is that when I point out how tough it has been on one person or another that i know, everyone says "Its been hard on a lot of people"... so perhaps there is a bit of increasing empathy out there?

I doubt it: the impression I always get is that "It's been hard on a lot of people..." has the sequel "...but nobody who really matters, so who gives a shit?" implied, even if it isn't spoken.

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RE: Poverty reaches historic levels - 9/22/2010 12:54:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Why is there no equal discourse on the fact that the rich are rich at historic levels? (and since wealth is not created from nothing........)

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