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Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 8:45:29 AM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
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I would say my bdsm experiences are based on 90 percent sexual need, and the rest a kind of emotional catharsis. You may guess from that that I am not into long term D/s relationships. Personally, over time the inherent one dimensionality of D/s, which for me is simply a particular expression of my personality that I love to engage in, drags them down into becoming a mishmash of emotions, in which neither the D/s or vanilla needs are met. Obviously I am strictly giving my own opinion here, I realize it works for many others, just not me.

On to the question:

SO, IF YOU CHOSE to be a dominant or a submissive in a D/s or BDSM dynamic; and yes, in my opinion it is a choice, you were not born to be a dominant or a submissive, or slave/master or whatever you call it, they may be inate traits you carry, they may be expressions of your enviornment, who really gives a shit after all, but the point is that you have chosen to apply those traits or tendencies in a certain way ie D/s BDSM.

My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 9:02:51 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't choose to be submissive, it is who I am. What I do make a conscious choice is who I submit to. I choose to keep it bottled up and not submit to the wrong people; people who don't have the traits I require for me to consider them smart enough, strong enough, patient enough, etc to be safe enough for me to submit to.

But hell, that's true about who I have sex with. I don't choose to be a heterosexual female, it is who I am. What I do is make a conscious choice about who I have sex with. I choose to not indulge my sexuality, to keep it bottled up and not have sex with the wrong people; people who don't have the traits I require for me to consider them smart enough, strong enough, patient enough, etc to be safe enough for me to have sex with.

Now since I only submit inside a committed longterm interpersonal relationship with someone I also have sex with, I suppose you could say it's part and parcel.

If you don't have a long term d/s relationship, then what kind of long term relationships do you have? If you need to have an occasional d/s sexual relationship, then doesn't that mandate an open relationship? How long has your longest functional relationship been? How does your need to indulge your d/s interests occasionally impacted those relationships?

My relationship encompasses all those things you asked about; sexual compatibility, emotional compatibility and a partner who I can lean on to get through the day when needed and who can lean on me to get through the day when needed. However I chose my vanilla ex for those same reasons. Sexual and emotional compatibility are essential to me in my relationships. Do you not require them in your long term relationships?


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 9:37:21 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		To answer best, I think I would have to split the definition between personality and role.  The personality part isn't a choice.  It's just who I am.  I am independent, strong willed, prefer to be the person in authority, want the final decision, etc.  The role is the interaction with another person, specifically set that is how we will related to each other.  It doesn't cover My entire life.  For example, I interact with My slave in one way, and My boss in another.  There are plenty of areas where we Dominants really aren't running the show.

As to what percent of need I believe it is, and which category that I would put it in, I would say none.  I'm a believer that needs are those things that support life.  Everything else, to some degree, is a want.  I could (and have) walk away from BDSM and D/s.  The greatest issue for Me if I were to do so would be the emotional attachment that I have to My slave.  As to all of the rest, I do it for fun.  My sadism is something that I enjoy, but I wouldn't be pining away for it if I would chose not to engage in it anymore.  For Me, it really is a choice.  Should I choose not to live this way, I'd be fine with it.


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 9:46:18 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		LadyPact is correct that a distinction must be made between one's personality, and one's role. as she said, one's personality is not chosen.

i am submissive because i can be no other way...it is just my innate, instinctive manner of engaging with the world around me. it has nothing at all to do with what i want, what i like, what is easy, or what turns me on. if i could have chosen to NOT be submissive, i absolutely would have, as being this way has not made for an easy life for me. it's led to much suffering and hardship.

but fortunately, i was able to choose to be in a relationship with a man who accepted and valued me just as i was...who saw beauty in my submissive nature as opposed to a personality defect. i chose to be with him, and chose to belong to him. and i made that choice because it was, for me, the only path to fulfillment and peace.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 10:03:40 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone



My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?



Pretty much all of it is derived from a sexual need. I don't use it as a coping mechanism or even emotional need. I believe I was born to be turned on sexually by submission.

It was a choice to pursue that or ignore it; I chose to pursue it.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 11:35:42 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?


I'd say that less than 1% of the D/s or authority-based activity that I do is based on sexual need, about 10% on emotional need, less than 1% on 'coping mechanisms', and ~88% on interest, fascination, and genuine enjoyment of the dynamic. I am dominant by nature, but actually spent several years on the other side of the kneel as well, and the same general ratios applied, except that it was more along the lines of ~20-30% emotional and ~68-78% interest at a couple of points in the middle of my training, where I'd really become heavily emotionally invested in the way my life was going at the time. I'm not as emotionally invested in the authority-exchange, etc., these days, but I am less emotionally swayed in general as well, so it likely has little to do with the D/s or authority practices in which I participate in any case.

Calla


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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 11:41:37 AM   
bliss4us09


Posts: 106
Joined: 3/31/2009
Status: offline 		Much more identity and emotion than sexual need - but given your preference for short term encounters it shouldn't surprise anyone that the opposite is true for you.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 11:55:46 AM   
HisFirstAngel


Posts: 13
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		It's not a choice for me.  It's who I am.  I can't change that, nor do I want to.  I enjoy pleasing, and love knowing that I am making Him happy.  It's definitely more emotional...the sexual side is just a perk!

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 1:21:07 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bliss4us09

Much more identity and emotion than sexual need - but given your preference for short term encounters it shouldn't surprise anyone that the opposite is true for you.


Good point bliss. Of course the op can't be in this for any emotional reasons when he doesn't have an emotionally intimate relationship with them. The only thing you can have with a casual beat & fuck playmate is beat & fuck. Emotional needs, having them be there when your car runs out of gas, etc - all those require a longer term relationship.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 1:37:45 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Good point bliss. Of course the op can't be in this for any emotional reasons when he doesn't have an emotionally intimate relationship with them. The only thing you can have with a casual beat & fuck playmate is beat & fuck. Emotional needs, having them be there when your car runs out of gas, etc - all those require a longer term relationship.


While I agree that the issue here is casual vs. complex relationships, I've had some VERY intense relationships that took place over a matter of MONTHS. Admittedly, we grew into deeper levels of relationship, but I was emotionally vested with my first mate after only 3 dates, and we were in a committed relationship within a month. With my current companion, we were vested in one another after only 2 dates, and were in a committed relationship within 2 months. The thing that is more telling for me than the duration of the OP's relationships is that xhe is very clear that hir relationships to this point have been specifically about sex... with that in mind, it makes sense that there hasn't been a lot of emotional depth to the relationships, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as everyone was clear about the expectations beforehand.

Honestly, the length of time is NOT the only issue for an emotional relationship. It is possible to have brief and highly emotionally charged encounters, just as it is possible to have long-duration relationships that have very low emotional involvement. The important thing is the -reason- that one enters into a relationship. If the reason one is entering into the relationship is for sex, then the focus of the relationship will be on sex, and when sex is no longer interesting enough to hold the participants' attention, the relationship will end. In the same way, if emotional involvement is the reason one is entering into a relationship, then a relationship that is not emotionally fulfilling will not last.

Romantic, emotional relationships that encompass more than authority dynamics are not the PURPOSE of the relationships that I enter into. I have other relationships in my life that fulfill those needs. For me, my authority-dynamic relationships really -are- about the dynamic. They're about the joys of protocol, training, and sometimes, about certain kinds of fetish play. They're not about having a lover, a friend, a fiance, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, etc., so I don't treat the people that I'm involved with as if that is part of what we are together for, and I am clear up front that I participate for the joy of the dynamic and the pleasure that the dynamic brings to everyone involved... NOT to find a husband or lover or boyfriend or wife or girlfriend. I let them know that if those are the things they're looking for, regardless of how -long- our relationship lasts (and most of ours last 2-5 years, on average) they're not going to find those things with me -- and if, at some point, they get tired of the control, the protocols, the training, and the structure of our relationship, then they will probably be ready to find another situation, because those things are part and parcel of our relationship.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 9/22/2010 1:38:50 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 2:26:43 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I don't consider a few months to be the same as a one night stand. And I got the feeling that was what the op was referring to.. A one night stand, maybe two or three at best, just to use each other sexually. The fact that the op can't fathom having a full relationship encompassing love, emotional vulnerability, kink, friendship, sex and power exchange says a great deal about the op. All rather limited.

The Man and I talked for about a month before meeting, had two r/l meets in the following month while still talking constantly, and he collared me after the second meet. So yes, love at first sight, does exist in my book. But the op was very clear that none of that was welcome in the kind of meets he/she describes. I'm assuming he because of the name, myself.


< Message edited by DesFIP -- 9/22/2010 2:29:20 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 3:29:46 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i don't choose to define myself as a submissive; i choose to define myself as a bottom. i bottom to those who want to partake in the same kind of play as i do, so everyones needs are being met with no one necessarily deferring or dominating the other. he tops me; i bottom to him. it's all good.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 3:31:57 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: bliss4us09

Much more identity and emotion than sexual need - but given your preference for short term encounters it shouldn't surprise anyone that the opposite is true for you.


Good point bliss. Of course the op can't be in this for any emotional reasons when he doesn't have an emotionally intimate relationship with them. The only thing you can have with a casual beat & fuck playmate is beat & fuck. Emotional needs, having them be there when your car runs out of gas, etc - all those require a longer term relationship.



i'm in a long-term situation with a beat and fuck partner and he's always there when i need him emotionally; he's my friend first, my top second.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 3:37:52 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		Technically, I have an emotional need to show respect towards women
and a purely sexual need to simply use them in every single way I was taught not to.

Makes sense, no? Leads to many, many complications.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 3:56:00 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		As you correctly say, I have a generally dominant nature. However, I CHOOSE what my relationship structure is. I'm not big on specialization and inflexibility. I choose that on the basis of the partner in question. Carol and I are master and slave because of who Carol is. Some other woman would be someone else. Presumably, I'd have chosen her for good and compelling reasons. Those reasons would not be BDSM related. I would then adapt to the role required for my best guess at an optimum relationship with that person.

So I guess that for me, I choose based upon a pragmatic evaluation of what I think would work best with a given life partner.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 4:21:03 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		My interest in bondage came about years before adolescence (the choice debate is moot) so it might be argued that it is not inherently sexual in nature. Once adolescence hit and the connection was made between the two bondage/bdsm became a wholly sexual entity. From that point on it has been entirely a sexual thing for me. One hundred percent. This is not to say that I do not engage in and/or do not enjoy sex sans bdsm. I do. I even go through periods when I am not motivated to pursue all of the bdsm trappings. Sex for me isn't all about bdsm but when bdsm takes place it is all about sex - if that makes sense.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 5:16:52 PM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

Much more identity and emotion than sexual need - but given your preference for short term encounters it shouldn't surprise anyone that the opposite is true for you.




I did not say that I was not into long term committed relationships, I said that I am not into long term relationships based on the D/s dynamic, or any other negotiated dynamic for that matter. It is just not something I could happily sustane 24/7, be it for several months or several years, just not for me.

My D/s BDSM experience would therefore fall mainly in the meet and beat side of things, for a time that is how I expressed my sexuality, and over time that has evolved into BDSM as a possible facet of a longer term relationship I may be in, rather then basing a relationship on it.

And so I know that I am dominant by nature, as I am many things by nature/nurture, but as I have grown older I have learned that it is not enough to follow ones nature, at least not for me, we have the capacity to chose our course in life, and mine changes all the time.



Thanks to those who have responded so far, I keep coming back here because I am fascinated by intelligent people, whether
I agree with their views or not.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 5:21:41 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?

I am a masochist. By choice as a coping mechanism.

In addition to being a masochist, my past relationship I was the submissive. And though it was through choice, it was more that he would not accept anything less. And since I wanted him, I adapted.

None of it though was because of the sexual aspects. Both, I would say were because of necessity in some degree or another.


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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 6:56:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		My submissive personality is who I am. I chose my role as slave though.

I submit to Master not because of the sexual turnon even though it is involved. I submit to him because he's a dominant personality and I like the way he leads. I trust him, I like his personality and he is very good at what and who he is. I submit to him because I find that he is good for me. His choices work for me in life. I am in a relationship with a dominant personality man, specificially Him because we're compatible and I find him attractive..same reason most people are in couples.

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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 7:17:03 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I don't have a submissive personality, generally.  But in an intimate relationship, I naturally submit to my Man, without even thinking about it.  I spent many years in a marriage where I was expected to be an equal or dominant partner, and I was a fish out of water the entire time.  I could not succeed at it.  I felt like I was playing a role - one I could not sustain because it wasn't true to who I am. I always ended up submitting to him, which was a disaster since he could not adequately lead, and resented me being who I am. I am wired to submit to the man who leads me.

So I choose to be in a relationship in which my Man is the leader and authority.  Either that, or no relationship at all.  Those are my choices.

It is mostly an emotional need for me, to submit when I am in a relationship.  Sex plays a big part of it but it's not what drives me in a relationship.  It certainly isn't what drives me to submit to him.  As for coping mechanisms to get through the day - - doesn't apply.  I rather like my days and don't feel a need to "cope" through them.




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