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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/22/2010 8:01:31 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone





On to the question:

My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?



I seriously don't have a clue.  All of the above at some time or other and none of it at others. I'm neither particularly submissive nor particularly dominant so
it certainly WAS a choice for me.

I knew from the outset that it was going to be tricky but it seemed like an attractive prospect at the time.(I didn't know HOW tricky...Hindsight is a wonderful thing , as they say)

I've never regretted it. It drives me crazy at times and has plenty of frustration but in some way, it suits me. I don't delve too deeply as to why, as it doesn't seem to matter really. Mostly it seems I just stumbled across someone far more stubborn that me.

agirl





(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 1:54:21 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		I am mostly in it for the sex, but i have to say when i started to apply Ds to my every day life my marriage got 100% better

For me personally, i am quite strong willed and can make my own decisions and take responsibility for myself... but actually being in charge makes me nervous and a bit insecure... and it pisses me off when i see people incharge of things when i think i could actually deal with it better, but i am not allowed or too chicken to take over.
It is bliss when i can trust my man to make the right decisions and choices in half the time or less than it would take me to get there (in an argumentative way probably)

Like with dancing... i can dance wonderfully by myself, but i like it better when i am lead by a man. I have been taught from the start to trust my partner and never fight his lead... and when the male lead is good; sparks fly
if only i had applied this knowledge to my marriage years ago
ah well better late than never

< Message edited by ranja -- 9/23/2010 1:56:04 AM >

(in reply to SlyStone)
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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 2:19:11 AM   
PeanutTigerinBox


Posts: 1624
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't choose to be submissive, it is who I am. What I do make a conscious choice is who I submit to. I choose to keep it bottled up and not submit to the wrong people; people who don't have the traits I require for me to consider them smart enough, strong enough, patient enough, etc to be safe enough for me to submit to.


I couldn't have said it any better Well said DesFIP

On top of that the sexual need actually doesn't bother me. I can do well without sex for a very long time what is a lot in me is the fact that I enjoy to spoil people close to me and to make their lifes easier when I am able to do so...that's the part in me which likes to please and that is me. However, try to run me over or take advantage and you won't find a submissive bone in my body. Therefore for the right person I am happy to submit to, which is why I am still in a close bond with my ex, whilst he is not my dominant, I truly value and respect him as being a person doing in some aspects better decisions than I am doing and I don't mind to still show him that respect in these days. When we meet and at times disagree than I know that often he is right just that I might not want to hear it or would prefer that he would be wrong, but internally I know that most of the time he is right. Therefore submission to the right person is my choice, without the right person I am more than happy to be my own boss.

_____________________________

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aka Phoenixpower

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(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 4:34:54 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone



SO, IF YOU CHOSE to be a dominant or a submissive in a D/s or BDSM dynamic; and yes, in my opinion it is a choice, you were not born to be a dominant or a submissive, or slave/master or whatever you call it, they may be inate traits you carry, they may be expressions of your enviornment, who really gives a shit after all, but the point is that you have chosen to apply those traits or tendencies in a certain way ie D/s BDSM.
 
if it was a choice id be hooked up with a vanilla right now, or at the least open and dating them - but vanilla doesnt work for me.  therefore it isnt a choice, im far more functional and happy in Ds or Ms.  i think that because it doesnt make sense to you or that you have found that a relationship based purely on Ds or Ms in the end unravels is because people put the 'role' before the person and the relationship as a whole.  in the same way that a vanilla who looks only for sexual release is unlikely to find a meaningful relationship, just hooking up with someone because theyre sub or Dom is no basis for a long term relationship.


My question is; what percent of that choice is based on sexual need, emotional need, or a coping mechanism to get through the day, or none of the above, in which case what is your choice based on. And if you feel it is not a choice, why is that?

my sexuality is tied up with my submission.  so its a high percentage - but that doesnt equate to BDSM at all.  BDSM is an expression of submission to my Master, not an expression of my sexuality - the fact that submission ties into my sexuality is entirely based on my emotional need to submit.  as a coping mechanism its a little more complicated.  i function better when im in submission because in focusing on my Master the detritus of life is easier to negotiate - without that focus i tend to be all over the place a bit.
 
its not a choice because i have no choice - which sounds a tad dramatic, but its true.  id sooner be on my own than with a vanilla and id sooner be on my own than be with a guy who is Dominant but not a match.  is why i think, so many submissive types spend an inordinate amount of their adult life alone until they find someone they can work with.




_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 6:59:59 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I actually agree with the OP, just because you have a submissive personality doesn't mean you'll end A submissive. Likewise with a dominant or alpha personality.

The second part of that is there are other issues that end up being claiming to be a submissive or dominant personality, because it gives them a place where they think those issues are okay. ie: the domineering personality that thinks it's dominant.

For me it's combination of emotional and sexual. I'm an alpha personality. I tend to lead and solve problems. But, it also wears me down. It takes me being with someone that is more alpha than I am to feel comfortable handing over the reins. That feeling is just a big pool of calm for me.

A lot of Doms would tell you that I'm not submissive, but it's simply because they're not more dominant than I am.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 7:00:36 AM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
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quote:

its not a choice because i have no choice - which sounds a tad dramatic, but its true.  id sooner be on my own than with a vanilla and id sooner be on my own than be with a guy who is Dominant but not a match.  is why i think, so many submissive types spend an inordinate amount of their adult life alone until they find someone they can work with.





While I know you will disagree, and I understand what you are expressing here I still think it is a choice lally, and you chose to be alone because you have set up an uncompromising critera for a relationship. That is not a critisism, I respect your choices, but I still say that they are choices.

I guess it comes down to ; can/should one compromise his/her need set in order to meet another somewhat half way, without losing his/her self in the process, which seems to me to be something incumbent in order for any relationship to survive in the long run, or is it? And, is it better to get some or most of what you need, or none of what you need? There is no right answer here, it comes down to the individual choice for sure.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 7:41:25 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone







I guess it comes down to ; can/should one compromise his/her need set in order to meet another somewhat half way, without losing his/her self in the process, which seems to me to be something incumbent in order for any relationship to survive in the long run, or is it? And, is it better to get some or most of what you need, or none of what you need?


It is never the right choice to be with someone who you are not fulfilled being with.

There are lots of men out there with whom I would get my sexual needs met.

However it is far better always to be alone with yourself than to be lonely while in the company of someone else.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 7:41:52 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl


A lot of Doms would tell you that I'm not submissive, but it's simply because they're not more dominant than I am.


or perhaps it's because you're not submissive. you yourself admit that you have an "alpha," leader-type personality. you do not have a submissive personality. but you choose to submit within a personal relationship...making you "a" submissive in the lifestyle sense, but not in the general sense. so perhaps those Dominants who say you are not submissive, are not less dominant than yourself but simply recognize you as someone who does not have a submissive personality.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 9:25:02 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
or perhaps it's because you're not submissive. you yourself admit that you have an "alpha," leader-type personality. you do not have a submissive personality. but you choose to submit within a personal relationship...making you "a" submissive in the lifestyle sense, but not in the general sense. so perhaps those Dominants who say you are not submissive, are not less dominant than yourself but simply recognize you as someone who does not have a submissive personality.

*sighs* No, no daddysprop... it doesn't work that way. Didn't you know that those of us who choose submissives who are submissive by nature are weak dominants? TRUE dominants, are all about square pegs and round holes. Honestly, the only reason I like domming Carol is because she's easy enough to be within my skill levels. I'm sure that if I was only more dominant myself, I'd choose to dom another dom instead.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 9:39:31 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527


*sighs* No, no daddysprop... it doesn't work that way. Didn't you know that those of us who choose submissives who are submissive by nature are weak dominants? TRUE dominants, are all about square pegs and round holes. Honestly, the only reason I like domming Carol is because she's easy enough to be within my skill levels. I'm sure that if I was only more dominant myself, I'd choose to dom another dom instead.



ohhh that's right!! oops, sorry i forgot.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/23/2010 10:07:39 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Simple..... The choice to live my life the way I do is to be happy.... And what choices I have made thus far have resulted in a great amount of happiness... So I will continue to do what is working

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 12:15:49 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline 		i am submissive i havent chosen it, having been very unhappy in a vanilla marriage for years trying to submit unsuccessfully to my now ex who is possibly sub (the marriage was a disaster nothing worked) i found my master and from day one even though he recognised me as a sub he never let on to start with untill a situation and up and he asked me to make a certain decision (yes he did set me up with it) but it made me fully realise who i was. after that day i was able to fully be who i was for the first time ever and at last i feel whole. sex is only a small part of it we live it 24/7 and i am now fully me and happy for the first itme in 50 odd years

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 1:08:09 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

quote:

its not a choice because i have no choice - which sounds a tad dramatic, but its true.  id sooner be on my own than with a vanilla and id sooner be on my own than be with a guy who is Dominant but not a match.  is why i think, so many submissive types spend an inordinate amount of their adult life alone until they find someone they can work with.





While I know you will disagree, and I understand what you are expressing here I still think it is a choice lally, and you chose to be alone because you have set up an uncompromising critera for a relationship. That is not a critisism, I respect your choices, but I still say that they are choices.

I guess it comes down to ; can/should one compromise his/her need set in order to meet another somewhat half way, without losing his/her self in the process, which seems to me to be something incumbent in order for any relationship to survive in the long run, or is it? And, is it better to get some or most of what you need, or none of what you need? There is no right answer here, it comes down to the individual choice for sure.


 - yes i disagree - i havent chosen to be alone.  there is a very small pool of people in this 'place' that im likely to be compatible with.  ive tried compromising those compatibilities and it didnt work.   i can compromise on BDSM, i can compromise on 'outside' interests but i cannot compromise on Ds/Ms or personality. 

controversial as this will be there are very very very few Dominants around who actually 'get' submissives and that it isnt ALL about BDSM.  plenty of bedroom Doms, kinksters, plenty of players, plenty of part time thrill seekers, plenty of those, very few men who actually want a sub or slave because a sub or slave gives them the freedom to be themselves and vice versa.

fact is that if we were more like vanillas in that in every day life, just walking the street, moseying around we were everywhere and were constantly bumping into each other id be with someone by now - but we're not, mostly we have to rely on the internet or local groups.  well im getting invovled with my local groups again because ive done this internet thing and its nuts! - theres a guy in australia id be curled up with right now if it wasnt for the fact that we're 12,000 miles apart, theres a guy in scotland right now, 500 miles away id seriously consider but i cant relocate at the moment.  these people are few and far between for me.

it isnt just about the BDSM or them being Dominant - but that mixture is just one aspect of a multitude of variables.

my exMaster is someone i still love deeply and ive considered going back to him a hundred times, but it would be for the wrong reasons, the wrong reason being - to be with someone, anyone just to not be alone anymore.  i have options its true, to relocate and drag my 14 year old to ozz or up to scotland and mess with his schooling - i have a guy im in and out of a situation with cos he isnt sure right now what he wants and where his life is going.

assuming that a person is on their own because theyve set themselves too high a bar isnt taking into account what goes on behind the scenes of my avatar or profile.  im a very busy bee here - people i like all over the place but they live miles away or cant seem to get their shit together. or theyre like seven or more years younger than me! - i just cant get my head around a toy-Dom but they make up a huge percentage of my options too!

< Message edited by lally2 -- 9/24/2010 1:26:38 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 1:46:23 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		what's wrong with the farmer who found your purse?

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 4:41:07 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		i cant really talk about that because its kinda private for him, though this is anonymous and stuff, i know, - i just did type it out and it felt wrong to share his private stuff on here - so we're friends but nothing more is likely

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 7:16:34 AM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

t is never the right choice to be with someone who you are not fulfilled being with.




Define fulfilled.

Does it mean ALL your wants are met or ALL your needs are met, or both? Is it an absolute state or is it transitory? Is it self defined or is it self determined?

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 7:57:47 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Define fulfilled.

Does it mean ALL your wants are met or ALL your needs are met, or both? Is it an absolute state or is it transitory? Is it self defined or is it self determined?


Ok, I'm speaking here from my own bag of experiences, so I want to state, up front, that anyone here may have mileage that varies.

It's been my experience that no one person is going to fulfill ALL of our wants/needs EVER. Every relationship comes with its own pool of compromises, and being "fulfilled" means that the most relevant needs for -that- relationship leave one in a place where one feels that what one is -getting- out of the relationship are well balanced by what one is compromising in order to remain in the relationship. Even with poly relationships, it is important to understand that there may be things that one wants or even -needs- that will NOT be able to be met within the context of -any- of the relationships one is involved in. In that case, if the situation really is intense enough that one feels that one MUST have this thing, then one must either choose to re-negotiate the existing relationships to include that thing (with the understanding that something else may have to be given up in trade), OR one may have to handle the missing thing on one's own or through a different relationship or expression.

Relationships are fluid. They change -- the people change, circumstances change, and intrinsics (time, energy, etc.) change. Over time, healthy relationships are balanced -- but on a day-to-day basis, sometimes for extended periods of time, it may SEEM like a relationship is heavily unbalanced in one direction or another. Only persistence, genuine commitment to the health of the relationship, and acceptance of the fact that relationships are a constant challenge and need constant attention to thrive will make the difference between a relationship that lasts and one that everyone bails on at the first signs of challenge.



Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to SlyStone)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 10:53:22 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		s ok lally, i don't really wanna know his private stuff
it's just that i saw your giddy post about him and your immediate leap to think there might be something in it and then there was nothing... and then another who was brilliant and now nothing again...
the farmer is a male, he lives virtually next door to you, he is single, as he is a farmer i take it he likes the outdoors and animals like you do...seems a good catch... can't you compromise or manipulate? (only joking)

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 11:34:51 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone







I guess it comes down to ; can/should one compromise his/her need set in order to meet another somewhat half way, without losing his/her self in the process, which seems to me to be something incumbent in order for any relationship to survive in the long run, or is it? And, is it better to get some or most of what you need, or none of what you need?


It is never the right choice to be with someone who you are not fulfilled being with.

There are lots of men out there with whom I would get my sexual needs met.

However it is far better always to be alone with yourself than to be lonely while in the company of someone else.



I've never been  in a single relationship that fills every hole, not one , not ever.......and never expect to.

M is the best thing since sliced bread for me, but I seriously doubt we *fulfill* each other in every way..which is different to being happy with someone. I can't quantify *how much* being with him works for me , or how much being with me *works* for him, apart from...* We manage to be consistently happy together, overall*

agirl










(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Choice or no choice - 9/24/2010 12:27:18 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

s ok lally, i don't really wanna know his private stuff
it's just that i saw your giddy post about him and your immediate leap to think there might be something in it and then there was nothing... and then another who was brilliant and now nothing again...
the farmer is a male, he lives virtually next door to you, he is single, as he is a farmer i take it he likes the outdoors and animals like you do...seems a good catch... can't you compromise or manipulate? (only joking)


ive learnt my lesson - lol - wont be sharing quite so publicly from now on - just the whole thing with my purse was a riot and he was a blast from the past.

the other guy - timing again i suppose - now he's all guns blazing and ive lost the will to be enthusiastic -

still theres a big party coming up and im heading off to my local kink shop and im gonna get something seriously sexy to wear and im gonna have a blast! - no more internet dating for me.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 9/24/2010 12:28:02 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 40
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