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RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 12:19:41 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ridicule away.

Still leaves the problem.

Better yet, keep throwing more money at it.





What are you, a Marxist? Throwing money at things it won't solve is the American way...

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 12:25:39 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I have this plan where there is a prison with layers...

Nobody has fixed sentences but you are put in different sectors (within the prison onion ring) depending on your crime. Then you have to escape each layer and the conditions are slightly more pleasant as you work your way out from the centre of the prison to the outside. So when you have escaped the prison and are stuck on the Island with the rest of us you are deemed to be totally rehabilitated.

I know this is a genius solution but it would also make a good film or mini TV series.


-e

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/3/2010 12:26:02 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 12:33:03 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Or even one of those docusoap things like The Apprentice or Big Brother?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 12:50:32 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We could use the money saved for crime PREVENTION.


How exactly do you prevent crimes that were already committed? 


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 1:11:02 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		You don't.

You make it harder to commit crimes; changing the factors involved.

This will never happen in the states as people deem certain measures as cutting freedoms.

Visible CCTV that makes it obvious someone is watching, better restriction of arms, educating potential victims to show them the circumstances and patterns of typical behaviour that make it easy for the criminal to prey upon them. These kinds of programmes.


< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 10/3/2010 1:21:35 PM >

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RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 3:42:15 PM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We could use the money saved for crime PREVENTION.


How exactly do you prevent crimes that were already committed? 


Oh good grief.

Have another drink.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 3:54:46 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ridicule away.

Still leaves the problem.

Better yet, keep throwing more money at it.






Like you want to throw money at ineffective "prevention" programs?

Do you know why violent crime rates dropped every year for a decade? Because the fuckers were in jail and didnt get out. You know why theyve increased? Because of early releases due to overcrowding.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 4:56:17 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
We could use the money saved for crime PREVENTION.


How exactly do you prevent crimes that were already committed? 


Oh good grief.

Have another drink.


She does not drink.

Firetree is a half way house outfit.  They are looking for a new location.   You should get in touch with them. 

We chased them out of this town.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 5:25:31 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Oh good grief.

Have another drink.

Easier to skip the question and just take a pot shot at Me?

Seriously, what is your solution?   You can't deter crimes that have already been committed, nor can you change the mindset of those criminals that already commit crimes.  How does the magical period work between now and the supposed period of successful prevention?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 6:01:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You asked a ridiculously stupid question. The shot is yours.

I can't imagine what response you were expecting.

The original point was not punishment but abuse.

If that makes me stand out, then proudly so.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 6:28:31 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		MM wants to empty all the prisons.


None of those saints should be there.  They were all unfairly convicted.


Would anyone like a drink?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 8:47:09 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Much harder to address the real issue I raised, isn't it, than simply misrepresenting it.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 9:11:09 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ridicule away.

Still leaves the problem.

Better yet, keep throwing more money at it.



Like you want to throw money at ineffective "prevention" programs?

Do you know why violent crime rates dropped every year for a decade? Because the fuckers were in jail and didnt get out. You know why theyve increased? Because of early releases due to overcrowding.

Are you looking at rates or numbers?  Crime tend to climb based on the number of young men in the population and when the economy goes south.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 9:26:27 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You asked a ridiculously stupid question. The shot is yours.

I can't imagine what response you were expecting.

The original point was not punishment but abuse.

If that makes me stand out, then proudly so.

In the OP, it is a specific case being referred to.  The crimes have already been committed.  How do you determine that this person is being abused by being incarcerated?  If removing a person's freedom as a consequence of committing murder is too harsh, what do you suggest?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 9:38:03 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

"It's all over. The punk punched a guard and tried to escape. He's now being moved to the general population. He won't last long." Dark Steven (Joran Van DerSloot thread).

Dark Steven is tacitly expressing a common and true statement about the dog-eat-dog atmosphere in prison. Why are we as a society so apathetic to the survival of the fittest atmosphere in prison? It's true, but how can we expect people to be rehabilitated in such a place?

One definiton of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result. People come out of prison more skilled in crime than when they went in. Are we as a society in any way complicit by just warehousing people in such a violent place?

ETA: Thanks GotSteel!


The case you are discussing is about a psychopathic young man with no regard for human life. Therefore, he deserves what he gets.

If you want to discuss how there may be innocent people jailed and they suffer abuse at the hands of other prisoners and/or guards, that story is as old as time.

There are many studies out there, and I am too tired to find them to cite, discussing repeat offenders, etc.

Our legal system is flawed, our penal system is flawed, good people get railroaded but many more are stupid criminals and then more than that are psychotic, evil assholes who deserve the death penalty to avoid overcrowding.

It would be very difficult to figure out what could be done to rehabilitate someone; I think it depends on the crime committed.

Say someone was dirt poor and stole for his family so they could eat. That person is likely to be able to do well once again given another chance.

Say someone was a serial killer or rapist or pedophile who will never stop. Why waste the money?

We also cannot segregate evil criminals from those who commit minor crimes, unless you are wealthy and then you get the white crime country club type jails.

Anyway back to the original case, that kid is beyond help; so I don't care what happens to him.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 9:47:45 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		The point I was trying to make in the OP was that prisons are dog-eat-dog places, and why are we as a society if not OK, then at least apathitic about that?

I wasn't specifically speaking about J VanDerSloot (I have no problem thowing away the key on HIM), but the atmosphere in prison and society's complacency of that atmosphere.

I agree that most people in cages earned their way there. But did they earn gang rape or getting shanked because they looked at someone wrong?

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 10/3/2010 9:50:06 PM >

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RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 9:52:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think thats part of the system,... a way to deter others from doing the same. If they believe prison is a walk in the park and all you could stand to lose is your ability to come and go when you want, what is the deterent to committing some of the more horrible crimes?

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 10:08:15 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		If the atmosphere or culture in prison is supposed to be a deterrent, then why are there so many repeat offenders?

Being told what to wear, eat, when to sleep, how often I may shower, and not having control of the light switch are things I can't imagine enduring for years at a time.

Can the viciousness of the system be changed to better allow for rehabilitation? I don't think the viciousness is something designed as much as tolerated.

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RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/3/2010 10:38:36 PM   
Carouselambra


Posts: 99
Joined: 9/9/2010
Status: offline 		Jail. What a miserably existence it would be to inhabit such a place. My father once told me, "Hun, if you ever get sentenced to federal prison, kill yourself while you're on bail". The lifeless hell that would be living in a small cage with steel bars in between you and a bunch of other grown women in cages would be unbearable to me. Waking up everyday knowing it will be exactly the same as the day before. Nothing to look forward to besides that day when you'll possibly be released -- 5, 10, 20 years away. Our prison system has been called by many "crime school", a place after which you leave, you know everything about every kind of crime there is. The in's and out's of drug dealing, theft, robbery, fraud... name it and you will hear people's stories while in jail who committed it. Jails need to be places of healing, not of trauma. Jails in this country need to evolve out of their medieval status into places of conversion. Converting criminals into people with work-ethic and basic moral systems will never be accomplished by caging people. A bad dog is not trained to not bite people by sitting in a cage. A bad dog is embraced by it's masters and shown love to change it. Those criminals with no interest in changing or no ability in changing (psychopaths) -- Give them guns and release them into combat zones in special platoons. Those that survive will be sent out again ad infinitum until they are killed. Get some use out of them or alternatively just have them place their head on a wood block and hit them in the head with a sledgehammer, then bury the bodies in a large ditch.

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RE: Condemned to Prison - 10/4/2010 3:52:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		"Dont do the crime if you cant do the time"

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Carouselambra)
Profile   Post #: 40
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