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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 5:19:22 AM

SorceressJ

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I am not familiar with the TiH website, but IMO, the last three posts especially are spot on. Just sayin'.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 7:00:20 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
angel's post beautifully stated how I think. If the man is in charge, you have a TiH relationship, and if you simply extend that to kink, you get maleDom D/s

that's fine Steven. But by that definition I'm a gorean also. I mean honestly, in a lot of ways my relationship more conforms to gorean norms than BDSM ones. In both cases, it isn't the concepts I reject so much as the community. I'd be a fine TiH or Gorean... except for the fact that I have no desire to be associated with other people who so identify.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 9:03:51 AM

sigh4ualone

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A few years ago, while browsing profiles here, I found a Dom who mentioned TIH, so I checked it out. It seemed to 'fit' what I was needing, at least at that time. What I personally couldn't go along with was the strong emphasis that was put on Christianity. I want to be taken in hand, but I want it done because the one I serve has the same kinks as me, but doesn't need 'god's' permission to do so.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 3:53:15 PM

CreativeDominant

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What I call hypocritical in TIH are those who practice it in the manner I've described in my original post. I don't like prettying up or covering for my eroticism by stating that my only reason for spanking my wife/partner is to punish her for her misbehavior and then calling the arousal that results from that a proper, God-created urge to "make-niceynice, come-back-together-as-a-couple" sex. Correcting a partner/wife's behavior does not come about because it's what "God says is right", it comes about because it is what I think is right. When you read many of the males posts on TIH, you can see...underneath...that many there use TIH to cover what THEY believe...that the man is always right. Now, they have God to point the finger at rather than themselves. Those are the hypocrites I speak of.

Yes, there are hypocrites in D/s...some even on this site. People who describe their changes in behavior as being due to the "unique individuality or circumstances of the new people/slightly different situation/whatever" to explain their change of ways instead of owning up to what may be purely selfish reasons on their part. But we weren't discussing those folks or their actions nor do I find it necessary to make that caveat when we are not discussing their behavior or this site but rather, another site.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 4:21:28 PM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

What I call hypocritical in TIH are those who practice it in the manner I've described in my original post. I don't like prettying up or covering for my eroticism by stating that my only reason for spanking my wife/partner is to punish her for her misbehavior and then calling the arousal that results from that a proper, God-created urge to "make-niceynice, come-back-together-as-a-couple" sex. Correcting a partner/wife's behavior does not come about because it's what "God says is right", it comes about because it is what I think is right. When you read many of the males posts on TIH, you can see...underneath...that many there use TIH to cover what THEY believe...that the man is always right. Now, they have God to point the finger at rather than themselves. Those are the hypocrites I speak of.

I don't know if I would call that being a hypocrite. I think maybe their beliefs are just different. Again, I've never come away from that site with the impression that anyone was denying the eroticism of it. But if they are - and it must happen, as enough people here have said so - could it just be that they actually do feel that way and you simply don't agree? Perhaps there really are people out there who feel that TIH has no relation to BDSM and you and I just don't understand that because we're not inside their brains. Dare I contrast it to my D/s relationship and how I know 100% that it is not an abusive one, but someone who is not in my head and doesn't understand fully what I'm taking part in sees only me treated...well...the way I'm treated. And they might say I'm covering it all up with kink.

If they find fulfillment in the Christian aspect of their discipline, and if they think it's different than BDSM, who are we to say it isn't? Quite possibly it is, and we just won't get it unless we, too, share the sentiment.

(I'm a vegan. I can explain until I'm blue in the face about why I do what I do. I've learned that unless someone is already on board with the whole animals are just as valuable as humans sentiment, they will never fully understand and....sometimes...even call me a hypocrite. Those who feel like I do....completely understand. Maybe it's just the same for TIH.)

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 4:33:54 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
I don't know if I would call that being a hypocrite. I think maybe their beliefs are just different. Again, I've never come away from that site with the impression that anyone was denying the eroticism of it. But if they are - and it must happen, as enough people here have said so - could it just be that they actually do feel that way and you simply don't agree?

Yes, it could be. And, in fact, I've been the target of exactly that sort of accusation here on collarme. My authority dynamic with Carol is not eroticized. There's been more than a few here and there who've told me I'm hypocritical or a liar.

I'm going to go back to my original statement.

There is a LOT of focus on spanking in TIH-land and, at least when I was reading, a strong disavowal of all things BDSM/kink.

Option A) These are the worst behaved wives on the face of the planet.
Option B) These are the crappiest leaders on the face of the planet.
Option C) They are deriving some value from this spanking activity beyond discipline yet disavowing that.
Option D) Maybe the particular year I was going there regularly was just a bad year for spankings?

So if it's A or B, I don't want to be around them because I prefer to surround myself with competent people. If it's C, then I prefer to surround myself with truthful people. Option D is always a possibility in which case I'm wrong... now at least... about my assessment.

What I can tell you for a fact is that I really, really, really wanted to like TIH. I mean seriously... I'm the married vanilla guy (well... ex-vanilla now... but DEFINITELY vanilla then). It ought to have been a perfect fit for me... WAY more perfect than all the scary kink (well, scary then) I had to face here on collarme. I spent the better part of a year going there regularly and reading articles. I could never make it more than a few articles before I'd end up shaking my head and leaving the site. Clearly something triggered that response because I really ought to have been a better fit there than here. I was deathly afraid of kink (and sex for that matter) when I originally came here -- this site that was to my eyes nothing but ridiculous and vaguely offensive porno pictures.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 6:37:20 PM

Firebirdseeking

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I' m going to add my comments to the pile. I am grateful to TIH, because it was there that all the lights went on for me, especially reading Yaldah Tova's article, "The Healthy Submissive". When I first landed there, I could not believe that I was reading and reading and reading; Moi, a SUBMISSIVE?? I am a feminist! a strong, independent woman! How could I be submissive? I came to understand that what I needed and had not had, was a strong dominant man. Landing here, on CM, came later. I also understand what others are saying, about that site's participant's not wanting to admit to how sexy spanking can be, and why. I dont come from the position that all men are capable of being dominant/leaders, which is kind of the fundamentalist Christian position, and the position of that site, that the man should lead no matter how messed up he is, (and what happens when the women try to follow these men is truly a disaster) . I think TIH has a place on the D/s /BDSM continuium.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 7:25:26 PM

barelynangel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
angel's post beautifully stated how I think. If the man is in charge, you have a TiH relationship, and if you simply extend that to kink, you get maleDom D/s
that's fine Steven. But by that definition I'm a gorean also. I mean honestly, in a lot of ways my relationship more conforms to gorean norms than BDSM ones. In both cases, it isn't the concepts I reject so much as the community. I'd be a fine TiH or Gorean... except for the fact that I have no desire to be associated with other people who so identify.

Jeff so i don't tangent this thread away from TiH, i'll make ths short lol for me. There is no way Steven's post can identify anyone as Gorean nor can it identify anyone as not Gorean. It simply has no ability to identify either way. As the relationship of a Man does not identify him as Gorean.

In the end, you aren't Gorean so there is no comparison especially based upon your relationship.

Thanks, angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 10/5/2010 7:27:24 PM >

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/5/2010 11:04:44 PM

WyldHrt

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quote:

I'm the married vanilla guy (well... ex-vanilla now...

You're welcome.

As for TiH, I checked it out when I was very new, as it seemed to be what I was looking for at first. As CD and others have said, it just seemed like most of the folks there like to get their spanks on, but there has to be a 'reason' other than the fact that it is hot and both parties enjoy it. Funishment can be hot and fun, but I'd rather not have to 'misbehave' to get it.... unless my partner decides that's on the menu for an evening's play, of course.

The other reason that TiH and I didn't click is that the site is heavily Christian and seems very 'one twue way' about men being leaders and women being followers. Being an agnostic feminist who fully supports everyone's right to choose their preferred relationship, that part didn't work too well for me.

All that said, it seems to work for some folks, and that's all that matters.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/6/2010 2:21:10 AM

BonesFromAsh

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~FR~

Why is BDSM so popular?...When rape is a gift...SM/D/s/BDSM in a Taken in Hand relationship...from the TiH site.

I stumbled upon the TiH site when I first started exploring D/s and while I had to make a real effort to disregard the religious aspects, what I found most curious (after also discovering various other BDSM sites at the same time) was the hypocrisy on TiH. Not that this way of thinking is exclusive to TiH, but I found it to be more obvious there. The links above are a classic example of this.

From the 3rd link....

quote:

But what determines whether or not a relationship is a Taken In Hand one is nothing to do with whether or not this practice or that is used. Those things are an individual matter. It is about whether or not the relationship is male-led because both the man and the woman prefer that, and it is about whether or not the relationship is psychologically healthy and fulfilling for both persons. And it is about sexually-exclusive, long-term, monogamous relationships, as opposed to “open marriages” or relationships in which one or both partners are sexually-intimate with others, or casual sex.

There seems to be an asspumtion that all D/s and BDSM dynamics include “open marriages or relationships in which one or both partners are sexually-intimate with others, or casual sex". Broad brushstrokes and generalizations abound.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 10/6/2010 2:22:06 AM >

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/6/2010 3:17:00 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

~FR~

Why is BDSM so popular?...When rape is a gift...SM/D/s/BDSM in a Taken in Hand relationship...from the TiH site.

I stumbled upon the TiH site when I first started exploring D/s and while I had to make a real effort to disregard the religious aspects, what I found most curious (after also discovering various other BDSM sites at the same time) was the hypocrisy on TiH. Not that this way of thinking is exclusive to TiH, but I found it to be more obvious there. The links above are a classic example of this.

From the 3rd link....

quote:

But what determines whether or not a relationship is a Taken In Hand one is nothing to do with whether or not this practice or that is used. Those things are an individual matter. It is about whether or not the relationship is male-led because both the man and the woman prefer that, and it is about whether or not the relationship is psychologically healthy and fulfilling for both persons. And it is about sexually-exclusive, long-term, monogamous relationships, as opposed to “open marriages” or relationships in which one or both partners are sexually-intimate with others, or casual sex.

There seems to be an asspumtion that all D/s and BDSM dynamics include “open marriages or relationships in which one or both partners are sexually-intimate with others, or casual sex". Broad brushstrokes and generalizations abound.

I want to clarify, first, that I don't call my relationship a TIH one. So I am not taking a personal defense position here. But...I just read the three posts you listed and I honestly don't see what's so bad about them. And...just because TIH lists what their beliefs are (re: monogamous) why does that automatically equate to them thinking anyone in BDSM isn't monogamous?

I don't think there's any more misunderstanding (if it even is that) about BDSM in that first post you listed than there is on this thread about TIH.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/6/2010 3:44:47 AM

BonesFromAsh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

I want to clarify, first, that I don't call my relationship a TIH one. So I am not taking a personal defense position here. But...I just read the three posts you listed and I honestly don't see what's so bad about them. And...just because TIH lists what their beliefs are (re: monogamous) why does that automatically equate to them thinking anyone in BDSM isn't monogamous?

I don't think there's any more misunderstanding (if it even is that) about BDSM in that first post you listed than there is on this thread about TIH.

From the first link...

quote:

Taken In Hand folk tend to have little interest in “safewords” and “scenes” (or indeed, in “the scene” or “the lifestyle”), and unlike many in the BDSM community, we stress that the control is real. To some, if it is real, then it is by definition abuse. Is it any wonder then that Taken In Hand triggers a little social disapprobation both from society in general and to an even greater extent from some corners of the BDSM community?

What I find curious is that "scenes" are of little interest, but then the same person goes on in the second link to say...

quote:

Do not proceed in haste. Be sure to discuss it thoroughly first, to ensure that, as one woman put it, you are on the same page. If she wants more of a set scene at an agreed time but you think she wants you to take her completely by surprise – such as by creeping up on her in the dead of night when she thinks you are on a business trip two continents away – things might not go quite as well as you'd hoped. When in doubt, discuss it explicitly and in great detail first.

....which sounds like nothing more than a pre-scene discussion.

My opinion about the site is that they want many of the same things that seem to be part of a D/s or bdsm dynamic but they aren't willing to admit to the similarities.
As for the "relationship" aspect of TiH vs D/s, in many ways I see no difference...and I don't fault the site for stating their beliefs as to what constitutes a TiH relationship. I do question the necessity of the quoted words from the third link in making their point. Not all D/s or relationships that include bdsm are open and include casual sex with various partners.

Again, just my opinion of the site....nothing more/nothing less.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 10/6/2010 3:47:49 AM >

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/6/2010 4:23:00 AM

DesFIP

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CD, I would only classify it as hypocritical if they knew the truth about themselves, if they really do believe they are fulfilling God's mandate then I would call them seriously lacking in self awareness to be in denial that they are aroused by spankings.

But I'm not Christian so I couldn't ever fit in with someone who was heavily so, and I put a very strong value on being self aware, so they aren't compatible with me on that area either.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/6/2010 7:45:23 AM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mandmlv

I am looking for comments as to what various people, subs and Dom's consider this term to mean.

I've only read a couple of the responses but for me, traditionally when some on is taken in hand it usually means that an older and more experienced person is showing a new comer the ropes and what the British Police refer to as "puppy walking" a rookie through their first week or weeks on the job. I relate this back to the lifestyle where a Dom or an experienced sub/slave helps and teaches the new sub/slave the ropes and how things have to be done.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/9/2010 11:17:14 AM

allthatjaz

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I didn't get the impression that the initial post was specifically about a site called 'taken in hand' but it seems most of this thread has deviated towards that site and what people think about it. I have never participated on that site. The briefest glimpse at that site showed me that I would have absolutely no interest there.
Was the op not asking more about the interpretation of 'TIH' than a website that had taken on that title?
Its a little like someone on that site asking about D/s and being pointed in the direction of the Gor rooms on this site. Opinions would be formed on what D/s is, based purely on whats said on those forums and yet D/s is so much more than the sum of Gor!

Take away that website called 'taken in hand' and interpret it without that bias.
To me it doesn't so much talk about D/s or BDSM. It talks more about an emotional and intellectual connection that governs a whole life. I don't see that as a negative thing because for every yin there is a yang. I don't see it as unhealthy but then I don't see D/s or BDSM as unhealthy either. I think there are many overlaps of D/s and taken in hand. The combination often work well and there most certainly doesn't need to be any religious involvement for a taken in hand relationship to flourish.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/9/2010 12:41:54 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Take away that website called 'taken in hand' and interpret it without that bias.
To me it doesn't so much talk about D/s or BDSM. It talks more about an emotional and intellectual connection that governs a whole life. I don't see that as a negative thing because for every yin there is a yang. I don't see it as unhealthy but then I don't see D/s or BDSM as unhealthy either. I think there are many overlaps of D/s and taken in hand. The combination often work well and there most certainly doesn't need to be any religious involvement for a taken in hand relationship to flourish.

Greetings allthatjaz,

The concept of being taken in hand isn't merely relegated to the philosophies espoused on the site, which I've read over the years. I found a similar ideology of offering deference to the male entity when participating with The Submissive Wife Project. There are many women who consciously choose to live in subjection to their husbands or partners that don't ascribe to BDSM or any of the varied strains we've come to know. For some, it is merely the natural order and a way of being that they're trying to embrace and reconcile on many occasions. Although deference may be affiliated with kink for some practitioners, that isn't the case for other persons. I learned a great deal from the women and found their perspectives very refreshing.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/9/2010 12:50:05 PM

CaringandReal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

The concept of being taken in hand isn't merely relegated to the philosophies espoused on the site, which I've read over the years. I found a similar ideology of offering deference to the male entity when participating with The Submissive Wife Project.

You were a part of that? Interesting! (as you always are :) ). I had reasons to observe that project but I did not/could not take part, as my master and husband had very recently died.

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/9/2010 10:18:23 PM

usemetopleaseyou

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quote:

angel's post beautifully stated how I think. If the man is in charge, you have a TiH relationship, and if you simply extend that to kink, you get maleDom D/s.

So what's femaleDom D/s then?

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/9/2010 10:35:40 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

You were a part of that? Interesting! (as you always are :) ). I had reasons to observe that project but I did not/could not take part, as my master and husband had very recently died.

Greetings CaringandReal,

Yes I enjoyed it immensely! I'll be returning in the near future when I'm able to devote my energies to the group. I've recommended it to a few people that were seeking a comprehensive program that addressed multiple areas of interest to women. What I appreciated most was the support network and privacy. It encouraged a heightened degree of transparency that was very refreshing.

And thank you for the compliment. It's always a pleasure to read you.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: 'Taken in Hand" - 10/10/2010 6:19:10 AM

Top4only1sub

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Very well said Kaliko. I especially can relate to your saying "I find the core concepts of TIH to be a more solid foundation for what I'm looking for than what's often discussed as D/s relationships here".

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