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RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 7:43:00 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

If you can't address the point then just claim you did and the other person is too stupid to understand.


Perhaps you don't understand the difference between "willful blindness" and "stupid".

Firm



Nicely done again Firmy!!



Ignore the issue you are unable to argue and divert it to save face.

Willfully blind.  Too stupid to understand.  What does it matter as long as it gives you something to cover your ass?





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/12/2010 7:49:35 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 7:48:13 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Obama hates the Constitution more than any other politician I've ever known.


I know you are old enough to have lived through W.  So, lets not involve ourselves with shitheadedness here.

quote:


He's the one who wants to change it from a document of "negative rights" (his words) to a document of "positive rights" (my words). As it current exists, the Constitution severely restricts what the Federal government can do to the States and/or "We the people...". Obama wants to not only change that but, moreover, actually reverse that. Is there some part of that that's confusing for you?


For most of us all yeah, you are totally confusing, because there is absolutely not one shred of evidence to support this view, it might be that you have some chemical imbalance that manifests itself when you pound your pud while reading rabid right blogs while simultaneously listening to rush and tryinjg to shoot your jizz at the tv screen while watching Hannity.

quote:

  
The Constitution does indened allow for amendments as times change. That's happened more than just in 1913. Obama and his progressive Democratic cohorts in Congress have already ignored/subverted/violated that Constitutional process more than once (and who knows how many more times they want to).

Cite!!!!!


quote:


Be careful what you say about that which you obviously know very little, if anything at all.


Is there some reason that you studiously avoid your own sacred advisories?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 7:55:37 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Representative democracy. We vote for people who represent us.
Repeal the 17th, we vote for people who represent us in Senatorial elections.
Simple concept.
Unfunded mandates= gone.
States rights= restored.
Constitution= some of its original genius restored.
Simple results.


No actually it is not so simple.

What you are saying is that by eliminating direct voting for Senators we are somehow enhancing democracy.

And you are saying that by again using the twisted logic that because we elect those that would then appoint the Senators that this is the true meaning of a representative democracy.



One of the main purposes of the original appointment of Senators by the States, rather than by direct popular election was to reign in the ability of the federal government to usurp the rights of "the People" (and the States).

Many of us believe that the Federal Government has indeed, over the past 100 years, usurped many rights of both "the People" and the States, taking the inherent sovereignty of both away from them.

That is what governments do, if not restrained, and what the Founders recognized.

How to return to a better balance is the question.

One way is to add some of the balance back by returning the appointment of Senators to the States (which all have directly elected governments, the last time I looked).

You are (again) choosing to be "willfully blind" on the issue.

You do not seem to have any concept of why we were formed as a "representative republic" rather than a direct democracy.  One of the primary reason was to prevent a "tyranny of the majority" and allow minorities and minority opinions to retain their rights.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 8:06:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		It would be alot more palatable if concurrently the law was changed for the president to be elected by popular vote. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 8:08:21 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It would be alot more palatable if concurrently the law was changed for the president to be elected by popular vote. 


Perhaps.

Personally, I think the reasons for the Electoral College are still valid.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 8:12:43 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have never agreed with the electoral college bullshit, popular vote all the way in my view.  And leave gerrymandering at the district level in each state where it resides today, don't poke it up and add it to senate as well as house.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 8:36:07 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

One of the main purposes of the original appointment of Senators by the States, rather than by direct popular election was to reign in the ability of the federal government to usurp the rights of "the People" (and the States).

Many of us believe that the Federal Government has indeed, over the past 100 years, usurped many rights of both "the People" and the States, taking the inherent sovereignty of both away from them.

That is what governments do, if not restrained, and what the Founders recognized.

How to return to a better balance is the question.

One way is to add some of the balance back by returning the appointment of Senators to the States (which all have directly elected governments, the last time I looked).

You are (again) choosing to be "willfully blind" on the issue.

You do not seem to have any concept of why we were formed as a "representative republic" rather than a direct democracy.  One of the primary reason was to prevent a "tyranny of the majority" and allow minorities and minority opinions to retain their rights.

Firm



Why do you continually bring up the same arguments as if we had not discussed this before?

There is ample evidence, which I've provided to you previously, that the purpose was not to reign in the federal government but to reign in what they thought of as an uneducated, inferior populace.

But feel free to continue on with your hero worship.

I do have to ask about your last statement though.  It is basically the same question I asked Truckin.

What do you define as a representative democracy and is it that you feel the 17th Amendment granted too much to the people?

If so then how do you reconcile that with your tea party views of "taking the country back".





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/12/2010 8:46:22 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 2:32:39 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What you are saying is that by eliminating direct voting for Senators we are somehow enhancing democracy.


What I said was:
"It is clear to anyone who can call himself a student of American history that the federal government is much much more powerful, vis a vis the States, than the founders intended. This imbalance could be rectified in part by the suggested repeal. The most immediate effect might well be an end to unfunded mandates......"

You notice you keep on leaving out the word "representative"?
We do not run the country by plebiscite. Thank God and the Founders.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/12/2010 4:35:44 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

What you are saying is that by eliminating direct voting for Senators we are somehow enhancing democracy.


What I said was:
"It is clear to anyone who can call himself a student of American history that the federal government is much much more powerful, vis a vis the States, than the founders intended. This imbalance could be rectified in part by the suggested repeal. The most immediate effect might well be an end to unfunded mandates......"

You notice you keep on leaving out the word "representative"?
We do not run the country by plebiscite. Thank God and the Founders.


I left it out just for the sake of brevity.

But you still have not addressed the question I asked, you just keep repeating the same thing that I was questioning.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/15/2010 12:03:41 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		You keep asking a question based on a misrepresentation of what I actually said.
Next you'll ask me to cite it for you.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/15/2010 2:36:12 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You keep asking a question based on a misrepresentation of what I actually said.
Next you'll ask me to cite it for you.


No, I'll ask what I have repeatedly asked.

What do you define as a representative democracy?

Doesn't a representative democracy mean we elect representatives?

Yet you want to take that away from voters based on an outdated notion.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Nutbag teahadist Joe Miller wants to abolish direct... - 10/16/2010 5:15:19 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I think his issue is more that people who disagree with him get to vote. That'd explain the whole "firing staff who voted for the Kenyan" thing, wouldn't it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 92
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