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The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:17:22 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		So for the past 30 years we have followed what can only be considered the conservative agenda; we have cut taxes, reduced regulation, cut social welfare programs, and reduced the power of labor unions.

It doesn't matter which party controlled the White House or Congress; relentlessly, the key items of the conservative agenda were promoted and passed, while not one piece of liberal lawmaking has been introduced or passed in the past 30 years.

The American public largely followed this path on the promise that if we did this, if we unleashed the power of the marketplace the rich and the corporations would create jobs, and prosperity would flow to the middle class.

So my question is, where is it? Is the America middle class stronger, more secure than we were in say, 1980? Who here has a more secure job, who has a more secure retirement, than they did in 1980?

By any measure, the American middle class is poorer, less secure than ever. The middle class used to be able to live on one income, but now we need two; we pay endlessly for things that used to be offered free- school busses, driver's education, school lunches, work training programs, community colleges...the list is endless of the things that the middle class now has to pay for, even as the top 1% pays ever less in taxes.

This may be the first generation in American history to live with a lower standard of living than our parents.

This is why I could no longer call myself a conservative- even if you can set aside the liberal arguments about compassion, or the poor, even when you only measure it against its own standards, conservatism has failed in its most basic promise, to deliver prosperity and economic security to the middle class.
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:21:16 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Larouch says 1968. 

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:30:37 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		But I'm sure if we keep trying it then it will eventually work.

No one likes quitters.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/6/2010 7:31:22 PM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:34:19 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, we still don't have a truly conservative government yet, and we haven't had since 1913 when they created the unconstitutional private federal reserve.

If we had a truly conservative government, there would be no national debt what soever and no unconstitutional federal programs. Read the 10th amendment Einstein.

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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:37:30 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Once you eliminate the federal reserve, the worlds largest scam will then be over. Until then, no conservative government will stand a chance, and no socialist government will stand a snowballs chance of hell of being successful.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:38:54 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		What a pretty glass house you've built, Animu.

You know what happens to those, right?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:42:56 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Once you eliminate the federal reserve, the worlds largest scam will then be over. Until then, no conservative government will stand a chance, and no socialist government will stand a snowballs chance of hell of being successful.



I agree.

I am a person who lived thru Bush.    Talk about blowing money.  He invented the word "trillion"!

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 7:55:26 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Actually, we still don't have a truly conservative government yet, and we haven't had since 1913 when they created the unconstitutional private federal reserve.

If we had a truly conservative government, there would be no national debt what soever and no unconstitutional federal programs. Read the 10th amendment Einstein.



Oh, where to begin.

Let's start with the myth of the Federal Reserve being a private institution which you conspiracy theorists love to claim.

Sorry, it's not true. 

The Structure of the Federal Reserve SystemOn December 23, 1913, the Federal Reserve System, which serves as the nation's central bank, was created by an act of Congress. ...



But let's move on to your other absurd claim.

FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Tenth Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Now explain to me how you determined that this amendment would have prevented national debt and what you term unconstitutional federal programs.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:02:14 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Actually, we still don't have a truly conservative government yet, and we haven't had since 1913 when they created the unconstitutional private federal reserve.


Without even arguing your point, it sounds like you are saying the period in American history you would most like to see replicated is the Gilded Age, of 1880-1910.

God, you must hate Teddy Roosevelt.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:03:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		RML.

You are wrong.   JPM, GS, and Bank of England are part owners of the Federal Reserve.

Isnt it interesting how Ron Paul and his many cosponsors and nearly 2000 pages of financial reform- does not include an audit?

Of course.

Watch for bonuses who gets them-   there you will find the real owners of this country... and it is not YOU.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:06:16 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Which BTW- they have not been too effective at shorting the gold market. 


Gold and Silver.   Many around the globe know it is money- but not dumb ass Americans.   Americans have no clue.  NONE.

Tell yourself it is a bubble.


HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:07:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

So for the past 30 years we have followed what can only be considered the conservative agenda; we have cut taxes, reduced regulation, cut social welfare programs, and reduced the power of labor unions.

It doesn't matter which party controlled the White House or Congress; relentlessly, the key items of the conservative agenda were promoted and passed, while not one piece of liberal lawmaking has been introduced or passed in the past 30 years.

The American public largely followed this path on the promise that if we did this, if we unleashed the power of the marketplace the rich and the corporations would create jobs, and prosperity would flow to the middle class.

So my question is, where is it? Is the America middle class stronger, more secure than we were in say, 1980? Who here has a more secure job, who has a more secure retirement, than they did in 1980?

By any measure, the American middle class is poorer, less secure than ever. The middle class used to be able to live on one income, but now we need two; we pay endlessly for things that used to be offered free- school busses, driver's education, school lunches, work training programs, community colleges...the list is endless of the things that the middle class now has to pay for, even as the top 1% pays ever less in taxes.

This may be the first generation in American history to live with a lower standard of living than our parents.

This is why I could no longer call myself a conservative- even if you can set aside the liberal arguments about compassion, or the poor, even when you only measure it against its own standards, conservatism has failed in its most basic promise, to deliver prosperity and economic security to the middle class.



You demonstrated in the other thread that you dont know what conservatism is. You reinforce that with asinine statments like this:

"not one piece of liberal lawmaking has been introduced or passed in the past 30 years."


and btw, you may actually believe that you used to be a conservative, but since youve demonstrated quite clearly here that you dont understand conservatism, you were fooling yourself.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 10/6/2010 8:17:30 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:08:01 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Actually, we still don't have a truly conservative government yet,





Dude, you might just want to go watch porn, or price yachts, or something. There is plenty of stupid shit in the OP, without fogging up the place.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:10:28 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Actually, we still don't have a truly conservative government yet,





Dude, you might just want to go watch porn, or price yachts, or something. There is plenty of stupid shit in the OP, without fogging up the place.



Umm.   So- Reagan and Bushes were a good custodian of YOUR money?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:22:40 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Which BTW- they have not been too effective at shorting the gold market. 


Gold and Silver.   Many around the globe know it is money- but not dumb ass Americans.   Americans have no clue.  NONE.

Tell yourself it is a bubble.


HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Do you think you could convince my husband to buy me more jewellery by telling him that when the apocalypse comes we can use it to buy spaghetti-o's?

:D

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:27:07 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

This may be the first generation in American history to live with a lower standard of living than our parents.



I have to disagree with this especially as you are not defining what you class as a "standard of living." 

An example of this that comes to mind is when my parents had their first child and switched to baby formula there were many times when my mother had to go trade in the coke bottles for the refunds on them to purchase the formula.  When I switched to formula with my daughter, I never had to do that. 

I certainly have more electronic devices and "time saver" devices than my parents did at the same time in their life. 

Making a long distance call is also much cheaper. 

I can get all sorts of fresh fruits and veggies all year around. 

I have never had to sit in a line for fuel for my car because of shortages.

So, what standards of living are you basing this on?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:28:40 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

This may be the first generation in American history to live with a lower standard of living than our parents.



I have to disagree with this especially as you are not defining what you class as a "standard of living." 

An example of this that comes to mind is when my parents had their first child and switched to baby formula there were many times when my mother had to go trade in the coke bottles for the refunds on them to purchase the formula.  When I switched to formula with my daughter, I never had to do that. 

I certainly have more electronic devices and "time saver" devices than my parents did at the same time in their life. 

Making a long distance call is also much cheaper. 

I can get all sorts of fresh fruits and veggies all year around. 

I have never had to sit in a line for fuel for my car because of shortages.

So, what standards of living are you basing this on?


Imaginary ones. He's a liberal idealogue trying to pose as a disenchanted conservative. Horseshit, bullshit and ambergris.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:29:03 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		My parents didn't have the internet growing up :(

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:29:05 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
You demonstrated in the other thread that you dont know what conservatism is. You reinforce that with asinine statments like this:

"not one piece of liberal lawmaking has been introduced or passed in the past 30 years."


So what was this liberal legislation that was passed? I must have missed it. Can you point it out for me?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: The Failure of Conservatism - 10/6/2010 8:39:46 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
So, what standards of living are you basing this on?


These standards-

and these standards...

Just for wilbeur, here is some more "Horseshit, bullshit and ambergris" for you-

Here are the statistics to prove it:
• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.
• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income

If you measure the real earning power of families today versus 1980- housing prices, wages, food, clothing, pensions- the middle class today is far worse off.




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< Message edited by AnimusRex -- 10/6/2010 8:41:15 PM >

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