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RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:31:18 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:32:41 AM   
lockedaway


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No, frankly, I don't.  O'scumbag comes out on national television to tout a plan that we can't afford.  Yes...it is nice rhetoric but the funds do not exist.  And what percentage of the population is benefitted by this massive spending scheme?  Oh sure, in theory you are going to say that all of us are because we all benefit from new infrastructure.  Agreed.  Don't even bring it up because it is too obvious.  Fine.  But juxtapose the value of the infrastructure against the harm of printing 63 billion, unsupported dollars, to build it.  Because, my dear, we do not have it in the economy. 

Nope...you want infrastructure?  Bring manufacturing back.  Bring textiles back.  There is so much industry that needs to be wooed back home and until you have that, you have no foundation for any of these projects or for a healthy middle class or lower middle class.

No...the speech was BULLSHIT!  Don't sop it up and regurgitate it.






Know your enemy.  Liberals lie.  Liberals deceive.  Liberals fight against liberty and against prosperity.  Do NO business with a liberal.  Don't rent to them, don't trade with them, don't refer clients to them...nothing.  Economic warfare is the only civilized strategy. 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:32:41 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustanger

So let's spend more...he said sarcastically


Are you writing a novel?

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RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:37:26 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
Nope...you want infrastructure?  Bring manufacturing back.  Bring textiles back.  There is so much industry that needs to be wooed back home and until you have that, you have no foundation for any of these projects or for a healthy middle class or lower middle class.


In order to build a better mousetrap so that the world will beat a path to our door, do you think we should sorta have homeland security armlink to form a corrdor so that we can keep them on the same cowpaths or?

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RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:39:05 AM   
tazzygirl


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You want reality?

Bush handed the american people a fucked up economy, a military tab he deliberately kept off the books until the end, and tax cuts for himself and his rich buddies.

THATS what put us in this fucking mess, along with the beneies he gave to corportate america.

McCain got scared and ran from it all.

Obama stepped in and is doing his best to fix it. I dont always like all the measures he is taking, but at least he isnt sitting at a desk on capital hill like a petulant child with his arms crossed screaming "NO" and every solution others are trying to come up with.

The republican party of idiots has no one to blame for this mess but themselves, and they arent even acting adult enough to clean up their own mess.

If you got better solutions, why arent you on the phone to your representatives demanding they promote them instead of acting like the child who had his hand smacked for being in the cookie jar.

I dont goose-step behind anyone. But i would rather a man in the office who is at least trying then any ineffectual idiot who is pouting.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 10:47:32 AM   
Lucylastic


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Until they admit that its taken longer than two years to get to this clusterfuck situation, and its gonna take longer than two years to get out, You are dealing with people who arent dealing with any kind of reality  Tazzy.



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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:00:07 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Estimates (at that time), placed the bill of repairing 'structurally weaken' bridges (across America) at $150 Billion.


The Federal Highway Administration puts the current cost of upgrading bridges at $63 billion.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-19-bridges_x.htm


I did say 'at the time'....

If the best estimate is $63 Billion, and the figures are there to back it up, I'll accept it. If the figure is $63 Billion, and Obama is asking for $50 Billion, then I'd assume there are some projects deemed 'not critical or serious...yet'. But that might change given conditions to which the structure is located in, over the next twenty years.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:16:06 AM   
lockedaway


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"You want reality?

Bush handed the american people a fucked up economy, a military tab he deliberately kept off the books until the end, and tax cuts for himself and his rich buddies.

THATS what put us in this fucking mess, along with the beneies he gave to corportate america.

McCain got scared and ran from it all.

Obama stepped in and is doing his best to fix it. I dont always like all the measures he is taking, but at least he isnt sitting at a desk on capital hill like a petulant child with his arms crossed screaming "NO" and every solution others are trying to come up with.

The republican party of idiots has no one to blame for this mess but themselves, and they arent even acting adult enough to clean up their own mess.

If you got better solutions, why arent you on the phone to your representatives demanding they promote them instead of acting like the child who had his hand smacked for being in the cookie jar.

I dont goose-step behind anyone. But i would rather a man in the office who is at least trying then any ineffectual idiot who is pouting."

You are joking right?  Bush didn't hand America a fucked up economy.  If you are going to argue, argue FACTS not FICTION.  The mortgage crises was caused by Clinton and other such pieces of shit like Cuomo and Gilibrand, Obama (who received $164,000.00 from Fannie Mae to be their whore), Frank (who also got paid by Fannie Mae) and Chris Todd (who also got paid by Fannie Mae).  When are the dipshit liberals going to get their facts straight?  I have cited an article in the New York Times on the mortgage meltdown from October 2007 which was a brilliant article.  Time Magazine (a liberal rag) also published and article in 2008 that sets out the mortgage meltdown.  READ IT.

The CBO put our deficit at 700 billion when Bush left office.  Understand?  Obama has quadrupled it.   And you support that?

O'scumbag care has turned out to be a complete debacle with major corporations getting waived out from participating.  And you support that too, I guess???




Know your enemy.  Liberals lie.  Liberals deceive.  Liberals fight against liberty and against prosperity.  Do NO business with a liberal.  Don't rent to them, don't trade with them, don't refer clients to them...nothing.  Economic warfare is the only civilized strategy.  


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:19:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Until they admit that its taken longer than two years to get to this clusterfuck situation, and its gonna take longer than two years to get out, You are dealing with people who arent dealing with any kind of reality  Tazzy.




I gotta wonder how many of these idiots have actually taken an economics course. hell, even home ec would have taught them that much, Lucy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:25:48 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

The CBO put our deficit at 700 billion when Bush left office. Understand? Obama has quadrupled it. And you support that?


Lets start with this lie that i have addressed with you before. The CBO stated that for fiscal year 2009, the deficit was 1.2 trillion dollars. As much as you would love to push that off on Obama, that deficit estimate is from the BUSH budget. The fiscal year for 2009 ran from oct 2008 to oct 2009. You do know what a fiscal budget is, right?

The actuality is that the deficit for 2009 was 1.4 trillion dollars. 2010 deficit is estimated to be 1.3 trillion.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11936/SeptemberMBR.pdf

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:30:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

O'scumbag care has turned out to be a complete debacle with major corporations getting waived out from participating. And you support that too, I guess???


A one year waiver intended to protect those who have the least amount of protection while waiting on provisions in the health care law to come into effect?

Yep,. i call that acting responsibily.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:34:50 AM   
lockedaway


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Oooops...here is another one for you. http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/05/past-deficits-vs-obamas-deficits-in-pictures/

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:36:17 AM   
tazzygirl


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Excuse me, you cited the CBO as your source. Perhaps you need to return to that source and prove your statement.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:39:56 AM   
mnottertail


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OK.  So, if  the CBO is acceptable, (cuz you are quoting it)......lets go to the analysis, and perhaps you can tell us what sort of fungi in the shit you are eating would cause you to hallucinate so:

http://budget.house.gov/doc-library/FY2010/01.07.09_CBO_Report.pdf
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_George_W._Bush_administration
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/108xx/doc10871/BudgetOutlook2010_Jan.cfm

take any or all

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:43:39 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
No, frankly, I don't.  O'scumbag comes out on national television to tout a plan that we can't afford.


Well then, I guess we should just drop $400 Billion from the Defense budget. Because, according to you, we can't afford $50 Billion, so its safe to assume we cant afford the $850+ Billion we are paying for the current Defense Budget?

So therefore, your against the Defense budget as well.

quote:


Yes...it is nice rhetoric but the funds do not exist.  And what percentage of the population is benefitted by this massive spending scheme?


Do you honestly not get how money works in the US Economy? Seriously? The money that goes to construction companies must pay workers and buy raw materials plus equipment. Those companies take the money the US Goverment is paying them, to get the labor, buy materials and equipment from other companies. Those second companies, find that business is improving for them, wish to expand operations. that will take labor and materials to achieve. Meanwhile, those people hired to do the construction have to pay bills, buy grocercies, and have something left over to 'splurge' on stuff from cloths, trips, home improvement projects, and hobbies.

In essence, money is put in to the system, to get it flowing against, instead of closing off avuenes of exchange. It works exactly like that of the human heart. You do have blood and a heart, right? If you close off valves leading to or from the heart, the heart ceases to fuction (resulting in the person dying). If valves start squeezing close, the person experiences a wide range of health issues, including a heart attack. Metaphorically, a heart attack to humans, would be a massive sell off on Wall Street.

Seriously, go take some economic courses at your local community college. You'll get a better understanding of things, and be directly helping the economy out (at the same time). You do want to help America out, right?

quote:


Oh sure, in theory you are going to say that all of us are because we all benefit from new infrastructure.  Agreed.  Don't even bring it up because it is too obvious.  Fine.  But juxtapose the value of the infrastructure against the harm of printing 63 billion, unsupported dollars, to build it.  Because, my dear, we do not have it in the economy.


Do you realize, lockedaway, that when the US Federal Reserve prints money, its not 'in' circulation until its given to banks? And the policy is 'one dollar in, for every dollar out'. This means, as bills become crumpled, torn, and even mostly unreadable, are taken out of circulation, and new bills are put it to them. If you have a dollar, that's torn from oned side (hold the bill so Washington is upright), to about 30% towards the other side, you can exchange it from a bank, for a brand new dollar. Now what do you think the bank does with that torn dollar? Put it back in to circulation?

Or did you never stop to ask yourself, why the bills you get from the bank, are often new?

Now, if more money is put in to the economy, that spurs inflation, which isn't good for the economy. If less money is put in, it causes deflation, which ALSO, isn't good for the economy. So the Goverment regulates, how much money is put in at any one time. Now, no one is perfect, nor any one mathematical formula works 100% of the time. So they do the best they can. If you want to blame the US Federal Reserve for that, then you, come up with a better system (and in detail).

quote:


Nope...you want infrastructure?  Bring manufacturing back.  Bring textiles back.  There is so much industry that needs to be wooed back home and until you have that, you have no foundation for any of these projects or for a healthy middle class or lower middle class.


Take a wild guess what construction is.....manufacturing. And yes, some materials used in construction, improve the texile industry (including many other industries). But, lockedaway, your against the President's plan, display little understanding of how money exchanges take place in the USA, and even smaller understanding of the US Federal Reserve. Bottomline, your for America's economy going to shit, not against it. You'll vote in November for Republican/Tea Party who are against America getting better. Or have you not noticed the lack of ideas or real thoughts (i.e. educated and planned) on how to get the economy going again from the Republican/Tea Party?

While, I dont agree with Mr. Obama on somethings, lockedaway, he's and the Democrats are only show in town, trying to do something good for America. I dont frankly see Republican/Tea Party canidates offering up good ideas or thoughts, based on sound and test principles of economics or business that is long lasting. I shudder to think, what would have happen, if the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act of 2009 (that's the Stimulus Bill, as I know your not knowledable enough to know it on your own), had not been put in to practice. Yes, it costed alot of money, but the money spent, went towards America. And we see the effects, as the economy improving over time. However, most Republican/Tea Party members are 'instant gratification'-olics, and therefore, can not understand long term issues and situations....

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:44:29 AM   
lockedaway


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Oh, I'm sorry, you don't like that article?  I should only use one source?  Two sources are a bit much for you?  Gosh...

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:46:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

Oooops...here is another one for you. http://blog.heritage.org/2010/02/05/past-deficits-vs-obamas-deficits-in-pictures/


OOPS... to take your words...

Here is one for you

quote:

The Obama Administration also made four significant accounting changes, to more accurately report the total spending by the Federal government. The four changes were: 1) account for the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies”) in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills; 2) assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation; 3) account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements; and 4) anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. These changes would make the debt over ten years look $2.7 trillion larger, but that debt was always there. It was just hidden.[59][60]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#2008_vs._2009

quote:

With projected receipts less than projected outlays, the budget proposed by President Bush predicts a net deficit of approximately $400 billion dollars, adding to a United States governmental debt of about $11.4 trillion. Actual tax receipts totaled approximately $2.1 trillion - significantly less than the $2.7 trillion expected. The actual deficit in 2009 was $1.4 trillion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget

quote:

Deficit
The total deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.42 trillion, a $960 billion increase from the 2008 deficit.

The changes account for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (”overseas military contingencies”) in the budget rather than through the use of “emergency” supplemental spending bills, assume the Alternative Minimum Tax will be indexed for inflation, account for the full costs of Medicare reimbursements, and anticipate the inevitable expenditures for natural disaster relief. [2]

The deficit is forecast to decline to $1.17 trillion in 2010 and $533 billion by 2013.[3]

The 2009 deficit includes the cost of the Troubled Asset Relief Program ($154 billion in 2009),[4] the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ($202 billion in 2009, $353 billion in 2010, and $232 billion in 2011 forward[5]), and the 2009 Omnibus spending bill ($410 billion)—and changes due to President Obama's policy proposals.

The 2009 budget deficit would represent 12.3% of gross domestic product,[6] the largest share since World War II.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:47:12 AM   
servantforuse


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Wasn't roads and infrastructure part of the nearly 900 billion stimulus package ?

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:48:20 AM   
tazzygirl


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Which i see being put to good use around Pittsburgh everyday... damn detours from hell! lol... but the roads are greatly improving!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obama touts $50 billion transportation proposal - 10/11/2010 11:57:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Wasn't roads and infrastructure part of the nearly 900 billion stimulus package ?


Yeah, I think that there was about 30 billion in that and remember the 'shovel ready' jingle? sorta like 'boots on the ground'?

So, the CBO and OMB estimates (if I remember correctly) said that based on the rules, only around 9 bill of that would be able to be used over like the next 10 years, so I imagine that the idea here is to abandon that, in favor of something that is a little less red tapey.

 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 40
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