RE: Honor and dishonor (Full Version)

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ScooterTrash -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 6:19:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

What do you feel the most dishonorable things a Dominant can do are?

I would like to think that Dominants are honor bound and above lying and abuse. However I am a realist and was curious as to what your thoughts and experiences on the topic were.

Loki

Being dishonest
Failure or refusal to communicate
Losing you ability to trust & be trusted
Not showing or accepting respect



YoungSub22 -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 6:55:44 PM)

Agreed.  I know dom/mes are supposed to push boundaries, but only to a certain limit.  If you disrespect limits and safe words, you lose all respect and trust.



MstrFury -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 7:14:50 PM)

this has been a very enlighting discourse of opinions thus far....but my fading memory tells me...I've been accused of each and every offense...plus many more not even listed yet....and the display of this was done right here in the halls of CM...so do I agree with these dishonorable actions commited by a Master/Dom/ee/Top etc.....I won't give my opinion on this one...just more food for thought....what if the shoe is on the other foot.....slave/sub/bottom etc......you relate to the person and or situation from your perspective...then you make your conclusions based on that.....you can assume you're correct.....but what if you're not....it's all in how you view it.......ASSUME...makes an ass out of u and me.....I may over think a subject...but I do give it thought before jumping into shark infested waters with multible stab wounds.....consider how valuble your opinion would be...if in his dishonor he caused your death.....that's rather permanent on your end....no more thought processes...no more voice......lying..abuse..breach of trust........guess I think much deeper than the question asked....



truesub4u -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 7:21:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

What do you feel the most dishonorable things, within a D/s context, a Dominant can do are?



Top of my list, setting aside your own morals, ethics or values as subjugation to another.  I've seen it far to often where a Dominant will buckle under to keep or get a submissive/slave which, in my mind, means they are not a dominant at all. I've also seen many instances where a Dominant will back peddle in their beliefs or morals just to smooth things over and still churning waters in dealing with a fellow Dominant, not because they believe a differing stance, but because it's easier to do so. That, to me, is dishonorable as well. If your belief in something is strong, it doesn't mean you can't or won't listen to other opinions and perhaps take on a differing belief because a sound argument has changed your mind, but to take on something which is not your own, which you don't believe ... I wonder where the dominance hides at times.

Celeste


Ya know bita.. alot go with the lying...and other things... but I didn't read page 2 either. What I seen in your post I wasn already thinking.  I've seen this before. And it actually disgusted me. Even when i've seen sub/slaves do this. Now as you said..... through discussion and having an open mind.......allowing for possible ideas of others.... not folding... because of trying to smooth the waters.... here on this forum... i've not folded.. but I have allowed that  my way isn't the ONLY way. I just have a tendency to not word it right and get into trouble... LOL I've thought of others  opinions and ways... still don't  agree with some... some i've opened up to... and this is  what I would like to see a Dominant one do.... not take the side step just to avoid a few  feathers being ruffled.  When I see one side step... I side step as well and make a note not to trust this dominant. Because it makes me feel that if they have a discussion with others... they can't have discussions with me as well.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 7:21:41 PM)

To willfully create any situation that would ABUSE the emotional, physical, psychological and/or spiritual well-being of a sub/slave, souly with the intent to do HARM.

Notes:
We often create situations that will hurt, either for fun or as a tool for growth. This is different than harm.
We can find ourselves in situation that have harmed our subs/slaves...but if we did not do it with the intent to cause this harm, we have not been dishonorable.

Fire



akisha -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 7:29:25 PM)

MFM said exactly what i was thinking

Everyone lies and or cheats at some point with in their lifetime to varied degrees. It's human nature.

But to purposefully use their power over another to work at destroying that person would be completely unforgivable.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 7:29:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

What do you feel the most dishonorable things a Dominant can do are?

I would like to think that Dominants are honor bound and above lying and abuse. However I am a realist and was curious as to what your thoughts and experiences on the topic were.

Loki

If a person is a liar or an abuser, if they harm the unconsenting, if they do not take responsibility for their actions, if they run from an unpleasant task, if they deliberately break their word, then they are not a dominant. 
Perhaps a better question would be, should a dominant hold themselves to the highest standard of conduct in order to command respect and submission from anyone?

Edited to add:  But I'm not bitter!  LOL
..I have to go with catize here...this to me encompasses a dishonorable Dominant...Tempting



TxBadMan -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 8:02:35 PM)

quote:

What do you feel the most dishonorable things a Dominant can do are?

To go against anything I was taught growing up; just for the sake of ' just this one time' or ' why the hell not '.
I don't think honor is expected only by those who claim to be Masters or Dominants though. It's within the grasp of each person, regardless of what they choose to call themselves.



Wulfchyld -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 8:16:25 PM)

Good job TX



Calandra -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/25/2006 11:10:12 PM)

I would say the top three things are:
1.) Dishonesty - not quite the same as lying, because lying is an action, whereas a person can not be honest even with themselves. Any lack of honesty will lead to further dishonor until it's corrected.
2.) Disloyalty - Really really lost concept in this day and age. I look for loyalty towards friends, family, partners, employers... everyone has someone that they feel is not entitled to their loyalty, but if they show lack of loyalty on a large scale, then why would they be loyal to you?
3.) Laziness - Self explanatory... Dominance is hard work! Sometimes it can be thankless and exhausting. If a Dominant is looking to avoid responsibility by thrusting it onto the shoulders of everyone else... look out!



twicehappy -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 3:43:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrFury

just more food for thought....what if the shoe is on the other foot.....slave/sub/bottom etc......


quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

[Being dishonest
Failure or refusal to communicate
Losing you ability to trust & be trusted
Not showing or accepting respect


I think the the four things here stated by my Master in his post apply to both the Doms/Dommes and the sub/slaves. Good topic Wulfchyld.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 5:48:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld
Allow me to clarify it with “Within a D/s relationship.”

OK, connecting this to the "what are your expectations" thread, as my only real expectation of someone is that they are being true to themselves and honest with me about it- the most dishonorable thing they could do would be to NOT do that.

Now, these are my expectations and my standards, so obviously someone's loss of honor based on MY standards might not be a loss of honor on someone else's part at all.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 6:36:08 AM)

Arbitrarily, moving a sub to a lesser role after assuring her of her status. This could be by favoring someone else over her or not giving her time, etc.



Reasonable -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 6:43:10 AM)

Idealism is sport for the playground.
And titles, meaningless to personnas.
Take nothing for granted-question everything.
And be careful of who you get involved with.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 7:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cillydom
Dom rot is anything that affects his ability to be the dom she expects him to be i.e. Going soft.


Hmmm..wait.... Let's take this example: a Dominant has found that they have a terminal illness. Over the course of the illness, the Ds relationship rather falls apart. The Dominant doesn't have the physical, mental or emotional strength to do much beyond trying to die with dignity. This means that the protocol has ended, the submissive is no longer being rewarded or chastized in the manner in which they agreed upon. There is no play, there is no sex, there is very little Ds components what-so-ever. According to your idea, the Dominant has been dishonorable. I'd strongly disagree.

Fire



DigitBox -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 10:29:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

What do you feel the most dishonorable things a Dominant can do are?

I would like to think that Dominants are honor bound and above lying and abuse. However I am a realist and was curious as to what your thoughts and experiences on the topic were.

Loki


Disregarding my safety for his/her pleasure.
Lying.




Phoenixandnika -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 12:27:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Allow me to clarify it with “Within a D/s relationship.”


Loki


1.Abusing the submissive/slave physically or emotionally
2.Lying
3. A dominate throwing away the power given to them because it's not convient
 

However, I would have the same bad taste from these actions if someone outside of a M/s or D/s relationship did them. To me they are simply actions I can not condone in any healthy realationship.
 
Nika{Phoenix}



CERCKL -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 1:11:36 PM)

Have learned from this thread...who would've thunk honesty was so important...<wry g>

C

(I had killed my profile...but I returned, sorry to disappoint all who thought something positive like I died might've happened...and for the rest, know you didn't notice.. How strange, the two sides are all screwy since I used my same profile name...different passwords, etc...cool, like the schizoid approach. Good CERCKL/Bad CERCKL)

Edited to add, I still need a proofreader!!!



mnottertail -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 1:17:45 PM)

I am  gonna get me a tatoo:

Dishonor before Death  (wrapped up in an eagle or sompin, dunno)

I don't have very lofty aspirations for myself.

Ron 



LATEXBABY64 -> RE: Honor and dishonor (4/26/2006 1:21:12 PM)

lets see lets look at it this way we all like certian kinds of meat some like steak some like chicken some like fish some are veggies. but what about seasonings  .. we each add something to meet no matter what it is meat being a person = meat  seasonings = growth what we add to that person. there are good seasonings and bad. for example salt is still salt = lieing.
and then you have pepper = dishonestly key thing to remeber is this all does one thing change the flavor the meat. how it affects us. . i saw someone post something about using tools to train a sub goes back to that old myth about  breaking a sub bad bad bad no no no  you do not have a phd in mental health. anyhow my short to the point is what we do what we say to the person we are with affects them. good or bad. honor comes with honoesty with your self and your sub



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