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RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 4:10:12 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood
When a sub is totally closeted as if their submission (and the Domme they are seeing) were a dark dirty secret, it seems as if they haven't truly accepted that side of themselves and aren't ready to integrate it into their lives. 


I have just the opposite view.  I am comfortable with who i am and just as with my politics, my religion, and my income i don't feel any need to share.  My lifestyle choice is exactly that...my choice...i don't need to tell the world in order to feel integrated, accepted or whole.  If it were to come up in general conversation, or if i were asked, i wouldn't lie about it but i don't feel a need to tell anyone just like i would not ask anyone about their lifestyle choice.



I don't actually see that as an "opposite" view.   I agree - it's isn't everyone's business what you do with your lifestyle choice and I don't advocate walking around with a big "KINKY" sign on your forehead - most of us have family members that just wouldn't "get" it (talking about elderly relatives - not spouses), or it's not appropriate to bring up at work.   

Reasonable discretion isn't the same as "dirty little secret" syndrome.

However, I've noticed a lot (not all) of subs who aren't out to anyone at all tend not to want their Domme to meet anyone in their life...not their friends, not their family...they don't want to meet others in the lifestyle and develop "new" friendships....they are completely paranoid about maybe possibly running into someone they *might* know at a  munch or the like or even being seen OUT with the Domme.  

It was as if we Dommes were walking around with a big scarlet "D" on our chests.

That's when it crosses the line into treating the Domme y like a dirty little secret.  You're really *never* going to be a part of their life because in no way have they they integrated "that kink part" into their life, and I find they are rarely really comfortable with their kink wants/needs - they haven't accepted that in themselves.

I've had subs "turn me down" because I *am* out to all of my friends, vanilla and kink (I am not, incidentally, out to my family).  The concept of meeting some of my friends and that they'd KNOW he was submissive was just too much.

Makes for too rocky a foundation for a relationship, IMHO.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 4/26/2006 4:15:03 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to champagnewishes)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 4:18:40 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline
This is an interesting topic.  I'm not totally out, but most of my friends and my boss pretty much know that I am different.  If they ask, I tell them.  It's not really such a big deal, but I am in a big city and we see all kinds.

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 7:25:34 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

Hi ladies,
I am curious about whether or not you have any kind of preference regarding whether or not your submissives and/or slaves are "out of the closet" about their/your lifestyle?

For me personally, I prefer them to be out. I think this is simply because I'm out.
Now I wouldn't out them. That'd be just flat wrong. But when I'm considering whether or not to take someone as a sub/slave, one thing I do keep in mind is whether they are out, or planning to ever be out, or willing to look at being out as an option.
I've had a few that weren't, and mentioning all the cons of such would take a while.
How about yourselves?



I'm a writer, educator and activist -- I am pretty out.

Anyone with me needs to be comfortable with that fact and up to being with me at events and in the mundane world too.

How a person is out and to whom varies but at the minimum they need to be comfortable with others knowing they are mine.

I do not entertain even thoughts of a one-time scene with anyone who couldn't be as out as required to fulfill my needs above. Note that someone at a public dungeon or playparty is slightly out and I might (very rare) play with them at such an event.



_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 7:30:47 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Ms. Proprietrix, Ladies and Gentlemen;

As I read this, it brings me back to my M/s roots, which is older than some of you fine ladies and gentlemen.

I came up in a system where all M/s participants had to be discreet. It was dangerous times then--very, very dangerous indeed. It still is but, not like it use to be by far; but just want to speak for those suffering souls that took the “bullets” for what we have today; and why people shouldn’t flaunt things while still in dangerous territory here.  [My early days-color TV was new, electric typewriters were all the rage, manual typewriters were still used, no copy machines, nothing digital, no remotes for TV, stereo, no internets, no chat rooms, etc.]

In my time, to be able to be cautious in walking in the vanilla world and to exist in the vanilla society as well blended as possible; was seen as high virtue of the M/s community. The arts of subtle and judicious practice of M/s was the goal our lifestyle set yet; those familiar with these subtle protocols practiced were for those in the lifestyle and keen eyes were trained to spot them. Politics aside, I am seeing the renewed need to be more discreet with more technical gadgets the “powers” of Governments have. There are so many laws on the books, that IF the government wants to get you (in general terms); they will use old antiquated laws still on the books to bury someone so deep, there will be no release. In addition, there are baits out and about in our lifestyle as well.

Since I came up from the Old School in the M/s dynamic; I have not suffered by being discreet and being careful about my surroundings. I also do not wish to draw attention to my hosts/hostesses home but, I treat those situations like my own house. I prefer having my guests come and leave discreetly as well; The only thing that draws attention to me is being a lady with gentlemen.

With my individual practice of Master/Mistress-slave, our manners are different from the public but, not as to draw negative responses but, positives. Being totally “out” is nice however not required for me. My style isn’t an attention getter in public or around families. However, my idea of being discreet is never having to explain myself to another and my preferred relationships is my business, not theirs.


Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 8:54:36 AM   
mistressrose10


Posts: 56
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		Why does a Domme need to make a statement to the world about her lifestyle? I seek no one's approval since it is none of their business and I value my privacy, if my slave wishes to divulge his lifestyle to his friends however,I have no objections but I am not "on" for show.

(in reply to EbonyFtshGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 9:16:04 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistressrose10

Why does a Domme need to make a statement to the world about her lifestyle? I seek no one's approval since it is none of their business and I value my privacy, if my slave wishes to divulge his lifestyle to his friends however,I have no objections but I am not "on" for show.


I think there is a difference between making a statement and being out.

I'm out by being myself and by using my name on everything I write and publish. I don't hide myself or pretend to be something else.

However I am not by my nature a fetish dresser or a high protocol person. This means I can be out and in the vanilla world quite easily. If you know what Ds is, if you know who I am, you can see I'm just being me.

I see it as a difference between being out and being "in someone's face". The first is being true to myself, the second is just being rude in my opinion.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to mistressrose10)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 9:40:39 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		"out", yes.  "waaayy out" is not required, though.

i don't mind keeping it away from a few folks or a job that it'd be a risk or just too much a pain in the butt to explain it to, but closeted is unacceptable.

this covers just about every personal subject and lifestyle choice... some things are private, but private is different than ashamed of or hidden.  i like to go to play parties, munches, conventions, go out on "dates", hang with friends, and so on where i want the dynamic or play to be there.

i don't need to have them wear an obvious collar or call me mistress at the company picnic if it would jeopardize their job, but they will still fetch me a drink when i ask/tell them to and show me the respect we've established i'm due.

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 10:27:02 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I must say I absolutely loved what Lady Hugs wrote.  I am very much in favor of the quiet dynanmic that draws positive attention in public.
Others have mentioned being out enough to attend a lifestyle function, even something as simple as a munch.  I hadn't considered that as being "out" but it is an important aspect to consider, since we have heard from many boys who never attend a munch or are afraid to attend a munch, because "what if someone sees!".   I guess I kind of feel the same about the ones who will not send a photo after a reasonable length of time.  If one is running that scared, then he/'she is probably not ready.  We all have to use sense, but I note that the same ones who will not send a photo are the ones who will never be caught at a munch.
Yes, it is a great measure of their personal comfort level whether or not they can attend a public event and conduct themselves properly (and I don't mean groveling to every Domina in sight).  Self-acceptance is important and there are many ways to evidence that, without shouting your preferences from a rooftop.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/26/2006 10:28:07 AM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 10:57:11 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		OK, I have to ask.  Your profile says you're 51, which means you came of age in the 1970's.  Why exactly was it so "very, very dangerous" to practice BDSM in the 1970's?  Was there a secret campaign to imprison doms and subs back then?  I might understand if someone said it was "very, very dangerous" to be gay back then, or "very, very dangerous" to be fighting in Vietnam, or perhaps even "very, very dangerous" to live in some disastrous inner-city neighborhoods--but "very, very dangerous" to have kinky sex?  Did I miss something?  It's probably more dangerous NOW than it was in the 1970's.

Also, many people are going to disagree that blending in with the vanilla community should be regarded as admirable goal.  I think such decisions are a matter of individual choice and there are no right or wrong ways to handle them.  But I'm a little creeped out, frankly, by the suggestion that we have to keep our kinks in the closet and pretend to be happy little vanillas.  Our life is not something to be ashamed of.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

As I read this, it brings me back to my M/s roots, which is older than some of you fine ladies and gentlemen.

I came up in a system where all M/s participants had to be discreet. It was dangerous times then--very, very dangerous indeed. It still is but, not like it use to be by far; but just want to speak for those suffering souls that took the “bullets” for what we have today; and why people shouldn’t flaunt things while still in dangerous territory here.  [My early days-color TV was new, electric typewriters were all the rage, manual typewriters were still used, no copy machines, nothing digital, no remotes for TV, stereo, no internets, no chat rooms, etc.]

In my time, to be able to be cautious in walking in the vanilla world and to exist in the vanilla society as well blended as possible; was seen as high virtue of the M/s community.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 4/26/2006 10:58:02 AM >

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 11:04:40 AM   
ServiceNTucson


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I must say I absolutely loved what Lady Hugs wrote.  I am very much in favor of the quiet dynanmic that draws positive attention in public.
Others have mentioned being out enough to attend a lifestyle function, even something as simple as a munch.  I hadn't considered that as being "out" but it is an important aspect to consider, since we have heard from many boys who never attend a munch or are afraid to attend a munch, because "what if someone sees!".   I guess I kind of feel the same about the ones who will not send a photo after a reasonable length of time.  If one is running that scared, then he/'she is probably not ready.  We all have to use sense, but I note that the same ones who will not send a photo are the ones who will never be caught at a munch.
Yes, it is a great measure of their personal comfort level whether or not they can attend a public event and conduct themselves properly (and I don't mean groveling to every Domina in sight).  Self-acceptance is important and there are many ways to evidence that, without shouting your preferences from a rooftop.


This reminds me of the very first time I attended a BDSM support group (or an SM support group as we called them back in the dark ages.)  I was terrified that I'd be seen by somebody I knew.  I finally got up the nerve to walk up and knock on the door.... and it was opened by a guy I worked with.

My first thought was, "Oh my God, he knows I'm here!"

My second thought was, "And I know he is, too."

Then I went in and met some great people, one of whom is still a very close friend.

I've been sort of out since a year or two after that.  Everybody who knows me knows that I'm "into SM."  But, I don't advertise to the vanilla world exactly which side of the whip, or strap-on, or ..., I prefer (except, of course, at Desert Dominion.)  Most vanilla people take one look at me and presume I'm a Dom.  Books, covers and all that.

I find most vanilla people can somewhat understand the idea of being a Dom, but can't imagine why anybody would be submissive.  I gave up long ago in trying to explain it.  Colors to a blind man.

I have reached a point in life where I have no fear of being "outed" as a submissive.  But, until there's a good reason, I see no need to out myself there.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx


www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 4/26/2006 11:10:22 AM   
ladiespet77


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		 I agree with Lady Topaz....i am out in BDSM circles....However my family,work,and  Most vanilla freinds.....who all Know me in a differant way....Do Not need to know...Really it is none of ther busniess....Just my opinion

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 6:31:48 AM   
redjanet


Posts: 2
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		though girl is "out"it wasn't her choice it was greeted with mixed reactions among family and friends,whilst girl wouldn't have informed family if given the choice whats done is done and on the whole its worked for her

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 10:50:03 AM   
janiceleeinsc


Posts: 61
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		My close friends know I am in the life.   I tried to come "out" and my job was comprimised.   I prefer things now in private so that I know what I am getting into before I get into it.  I want control of the situation.
You never know who is out there watching.  Be careful.

Respectfully,

Mistress_Jan

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 11:32:06 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		in fast reply mode as usual

My point of view is this. I really don't care who knows what about me. My concern is for the comfort and safety of those I love. I am not into alot of fetish wear or costumes, I prefer comfort. My personality does not change dramatically from one situation to another, however I act just depends on the mood I am in. I know that alot of the people in my life have an idea of what I am all about, I don't try to hide anything. Most of my family and those that live around here know I am a lesbian, thank you very much to my husband. I am not into the idea of BDSM play for the sake of play. What I want is a relationship that BDSM is part of. If and when there is a need to explain anything to anyone I will happily do so. For whatever reason people are just afraid to ask me.
If and when I ever have that special woman in my life how obvious she wants the nature of the relationship to be will also be partly her decision. I once began a relationship with a woman that had a pretty high profile life. Her father was/is a fairly well known politician and a republican at that. For obvious reasons she was cautious. I was very understanding and would not ever do anything to cause her or he any discomfort. I think it just all depends on the personal situation and all the who, whats and whys before I would demand anything.

(in reply to janiceleeinsc)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 3:26:03 PM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		As long as I'm not treated as a dirty little Domme secret,  I don't mind a sub not being completely "out." Most vanilla couples don't all walk around with t-shirts or things proclaiming thier love of missionary sex, so I personally don't think it's necessary to display signs of my BDSM interests.

My parents have an idea of my kink interests, though I haven't discussed anything with them at length.

I do nix subs who are so hung up that I can't see them in normal social settings. I remember meeting with one sub at a restaurant, and he was soooo nervous the whole time it started making me uncomfortable. We didn't discuss any D/s activities, but for him, just knowing that I was dominant made him paranoid to the point of awkwardness. Then, he didn't want to walk out together because he was afraid that someone from his job might see him, and if he had to introduce me, coworker X would be psychic and tell everyone that he was a sub. Anyone that "in" is definitely out for me.

Someone who just doesn't broadcast their choices is fine though

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 3:31:51 PM   
4u2spoil


Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline 		Nothing to add to this, except that this has been dead on for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

Reasonable discretion isn't the same as "dirty little secret" syndrome.

However, I've noticed a lot (not all) of subs who aren't out to anyone at all tend not to want their Domme to meet anyone in their life...not their friends, not their family...they don't want to meet others in the lifestyle and develop "new" friendships....they are completely paranoid about maybe possibly running into someone they *might* know at a  munch or the like or even being seen OUT with the Domme.  

It was as if we Dommes were walking around with a big scarlet "D" on our chests.

That's when it crosses the line into treating the Domme y like a dirty little secret.  You're really *never* going to be a part of their life because in no way have they they integrated "that kink part" into their life, and I find they are rarely really comfortable with their kink wants/needs - they haven't accepted that in themselves.


(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 4:06:58 PM   
MisPandora


Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Out, absolutely.  I'm far too involved in the BDSM and leather communities teaching and being involved as an event producer to deal with someone's closet issues.  I want them there by my side, attending me and enjoying the opportunities that I have to travel, meet people in the scene and experience great venues and events. And as I do, I expect them to maintain a certain sort of sensitivity towards situations where it's not ok to share WIITWD -- and that may include family and work environments.

I myself have been outed by a disgruntled co-worker at my place of employment.  It caused me a great deal of grief, however, my saving grace was my confidence when I sat down with the general counsel and said, "I am out with my family.  There is nothing on my website that I wouldn't show my mother.  I maintain discretion and do not identify who it is that I am employed by."  They didn't have  much room for rebuttal.  

I agree with Sonnet's sentiments that folks who hide in the closet tend to be hiding their dirty little secrets.  I've also been in situations where the fellow who "needed privacy" actually needed it because he was 1) hiding from a wife and/or 2) hiding from someone who had dismissed him/that he burned in the scene.  Either way, that's not a great recipe for success.

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 6/3/2006 4:17:25 PM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 6:28:16 PM   
FloridaISIS


Posts: 235
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		Friends in the lifesyle are the only ones who know I'm out with the excecption of one family member who is interested in the lifestyle and has switch tendencies.

As far as My partner, it's his call. I prefer not letting 'nillas know about my lifestyle choice;  therefore, if I had a Dom that was out than it might pose a problem.
As for having a sub,  I have no problem wearing his key on my chain. Most subs love this though, not all, but the ones I've had love me being their keyholder, and take comfort in knowing they are always kept close to my heart.
Just my personal view on it.
For those brave souls who are out I admire you for taking such a huge step.

< Message edited by FloridaISIS -- 6/3/2006 6:29:11 PM >

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 6:53:27 PM   
spectreandnectre


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/20/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline 		i am "out" to a few choice people...but as far as family no way, already tried to tell them once and they called children and youth who pretty much said that i had that right as long as the kids arent incorporated, i had to tell them that He has no control over my children which was a hard limit for me...W/we do discipline each others children but major things are discussed.  So its not that i dont want to come out i just dont want the problems it will bring at this time.  When O/our children are older it won't be an issue for U/us.

_____________________________

"When I see you, the world stops as if the only purpose in life was for me to please you."

(in reply to Ariel)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do you have a preference if your sub/slave is "... - 6/3/2006 9:11:55 PM   
Carameldomme


Posts: 65
Joined: 11/8/2004
Status: offline 		 
I prefer a sub who is NOT out, since I am not.
I think as a sub, it would suck to serve a Domme who is not out when he is- and vice versa. Being closeted creates restrictions that a person who is out deserves to live without.

Only one cousin and my lifestyle friends know. I'm not out for personal and professional reasons.

< Message edited by Carameldomme -- 6/3/2006 9:13:17 PM >

(in reply to Proprietrix)
Profile   Post #: 40
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