LadyNTrainer
Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009 Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DMFParadox Sadly, I am suggesting exactly this. Maybe my viewpoint is skewed here, as a long term successful poly dominant. In order for any relationships to be satisfying and stable in the long run, especially complex ones like either D/s or poly, let alone both at the same time, everyone in the equation pretty much has to have a figurative Master's degree is honesty, communication, self-knowledge and personal transparency. Fail in any of these things, and you're going to run into problems sooner rather than later. So for me and my personal relationships, these values are the highest ones we set for ourselves and for each other, of sheer necessity. Because I think it's a factually descriptive term for what a computer programmer might describe as a WYSIWYG interface, I term these qualities "integrity". If something comes out of my mouth, you can generally trust that it is an honest, accurate and self-aware reflection of what I am actually feeling and experiencing. In short, if I say it is the truth, then it is the truth. I may qualify what I say with disclaimers that I may not know what the truth is for you, or that I do not know if I have my objective facts absolutely correct. I may refuse to disclose some of the truth if I feel it is not the business of the person asking, or if I am not ready to discuss it, or if there is some other reason I think it would not be constructive. But I almost never consciously tell an actual untruth, regardless of the situation. In general, I see this behavior as beneath me, unworthy of me, cowardly, and a corruption of true data, which is about the closest thing to blasphemy that my un-religious mind can understand. Knowingly telling an untruth makes me exceedingly uncomfortable and unhappy. I am capable of the act should I decide for some reason that it is the right thing to do, but petty personal gain is an insufficient motive to lose self-respect over. I prefer being around people whose definition of personal integrity is at least reasonably congruent. quote:
'Integrity' is a value much like every other: it is in large part dictated by the surrounding culture. Some cultures would state you violate your honor by not killing someone who insulted you; others, by having any kind of sex with someone outside of wedlock. Women have been stoned for less. So have men. Honor is a different concept than integrity, and depends on the external views of others more than it does on your internal state. But to avoid confusion, I will set the relatively simple definition of personal integrity as I use the term to encompass self respect that is contingent on the truth and reliability of your given word and your presentation of yourself. quote:
But the fundamental traits that encourage survival and fecundity don't change as quickly; and one of them -- you'll hate this -- is to be a good liar. Convincing people that the right hand is empty and they shouldn't bother looking at the left one successfully is a huge advantage in a lot of situations. Primate behavioral strategies for long term genetic survival are highly polymorphic; there is no single design that works in a complex environment. The ability to deceive begins at the chimpanzee level, is seen well developed in gorillas, and broadens into much greater complexity in Homo sapiens. Deception is an excellent tool for maximizing short term gains, but how does it stack up as a long term strategy for maintaining valuable social alliances? Research suggests it does poorly; any species with a capacity for learning can and does learn when an individual's exhortations are not an accurate reflection of reality, and in short order he will find himself crying wolf to an unsympathetic crowd. He may still deceive some individuals for short term gain, especially if they are not already familiar with his tactics, so the behavior may well persist due to the effectiveness of these rewards. What this behavior won't do very effectively is build long term social alliances. quote:
Women select for it. Now ask yourself: what kind of test would suffice to see if a man is a successful and skilled liar? The evolutionary counterpressures here are significant. Keep in mind that the test is for the reproductive fitness and long term survivability of offspring, not for a single strategy among many possible strategies that can maximize economic gains. Homo sapiens is a complex species with polymorphic behavioral strategies, so selecting only for the "good liar" strategy is unlikely to make sense. It's the end result that matters - actual success of the strategy selected in maximizing resources. quote:
Somehow, men must balance both being good, reliable providers on the one hand (better for kids), good liars and manipulators on the other hand (better traits to have in kids), and be both faithful enough to a woman so that her children have less competition (better for kids), while also being the kind of man that would successfully attract many women should he be given the chance (Better trait for male children; genetically speaking, a philandering son with good fertility is a jackpot.) This is an example of evolutionary counterpressures, and the determining factor in mate selection is typically simpler than this: has this individual's strategies actually worked to maximize his economic resources in a manner advantageous to the female doing the selecting, and to her future offspring? Male and female long term reproductive success strategies do differ to the point that it becomes something of a perpetual arms race of trait selection; see the Red Queen hypothesis work by W. D. Hamilton for a good treatment of this notion. quote:
Let's say that you're designing a woman that can test for all of these traits, time and time again. You win only if she produces more grandchildren (not children, grandchildren; it takes two generations to measure the results) than the woman next to her. How would you do it? Because there is no single good answer, typically this will tend to default to the most immediately obvious and predictable traits of physical fitness for childbearing, eg, waist to hip ratio. Nurturing traits tend to be selected for as well. Beyond that, it's arguable that mate selection for any single strategy that conflicts with other strategies (eg, the ability to deceive versus the ability to form lasting social alliances) is utterly ineffective at the level of that many coefficients removed.
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