RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (Full Version)

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IronBear -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 7:13:20 AM)

As I see it, love is just a convenient label of how one feels about another. Thus I love a number of people of both sexes (yes there is man to man love, just ask those whose love for a comrade has been fashioned in fire). I am in love with one only and am married to her. Not withstanding this, it is not conceivable for me to collar a girl as my slave unless there was love present. As barelynangel (that lovely sexy lady whom I hold in high regard), commented. One must not just proclaim love but show it as well. My being in command and having authority over a slave is part of my demonstrating my love for her just as her submission to me is (hopefully) a demonstration of her love for me.



Jaybeee -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 7:41:04 AM)

Angel,

I'm actually glad you commented in my thread. Yours is a rare intellect among women, in general given your writing style, thought processes and preferences, and in particular your understanding of men. Hell, even your signature. While I don't share your lack of appetite for love, I do find it intriguing, as I do the seeming contradiction between your prodigious intellect and desire to be enslaved.

My point? None - just making an observation. :)



LadyPact -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 8:14:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Its always odd in threads like this because its like people are all aghast when love doesn't play into maintaining the relationship as a whole but the ownership does.  i always wonder why, why are people sometimes so afraid of love not being a motivating factor in maintaining a relationship.

Ownership to me is what is my security, my love, and my needs -- so why should someone like me fuck it all up by requiring love predominantly from the Man who owns me.  Why is that sad as allthatjaz commented on.  Those 8 years of my life were some of my happiest most secure times in my life.  But she indicates it is "sad."

Love is such an arbitrary word, why is it needed -- because its the right politically correct -- not sad concept to have in a committed relationship?

Hell i have seen what many people call "love" even on these boards, and to me it doesn't seem like its all that its cracked up to be and to me, that is sad.

angel

I have to say that I agree with this concept.  There was a thread not too long ago about how attitudes have changed over the years about being "in love" with the person who you (general you) are involved with in a M/s dynamic.  A significant switch has happened in the mindset of many people.  There was a time where many people didn't bring the concept of being "in love" to M/s.  Now, it's almost as though the pendulum, rather than going to even center on the subject, has swung too far the other way.  As though it's almost some form of blasphemy not to be "in love".

Which I tend to see like just about anything else.  There's not a thing wrong with a person doing a self assessment and saying to themselves that romantic love is a necessary component for them to a M/s dynamic.  At the same time, people have to realize that other people look at themselves, do the same self assessment, and they might determine that they don't need that component.  It's like anything else that may or may not be included in a dynamic.  Basically, the concept of take what you need and leave the rest.

If we were talking about any other subject besides being "in love" and it was being said that everybody has to include a certain thing in a M/s dynamic, people would be throwing the "one true way" comments around.



UniqueRaven -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 8:28:41 AM)

I agree, LP.

I need to be Owned. I want to be loved.

Honestly I could serve without the love - but I couldn't be in love without the service.

I think it is a side effect of our modern society - that relationships that are strictly service-based are now regarded as "shameful" or "sad" somehow. I blame it on the media, really. We're taught that anything less then jaw-dropping heart-stopping love is "lacking" in some way, and that there's "someone/something better" out there if only you search for it long enough. Oh, and I chalk up a number of divorces to this reason too. [;)]



TotalDiscipline -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 8:53:56 AM)

I own my "first ever" slave again now.
The first time I sucked at beeing her Master. I was ( and am again) in love with her and at the same time discovering myself...it felt like acting.
Now..much older...and she changed to..it feels much more natural...we just let it happen.
Yes..you can own..and be in love.



Jaybeee -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 9:44:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline

I own my "first ever" slave again now.
The first time I sucked at beeing her Master. I was ( and am again) in love with her and at the same time discovering myself...it felt like acting.
Now..much older...and she changed to..it feels much more natural...we just let it happen.
Yes..you can own..and be in love.


I appreciate the direct answer, straight to the point, thank you!! :)



Nineveh -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 10:42:13 AM)

Love is one of those words that means a lot of different things.  I see it as an attachment, I want her around and even feel like I need her around, a regard, I want her to be happy, and an intense appreciation.  Now in a purely ownership dynamic, if I want to kiss her toes for hours, or cry on her shoulder, or whatever, she had better let me, she's my property isn't she?  On the other hand, if I love her I will take into account that it's going to make her feel uncomfortable and isn't going to fulfil her need for someone who keeps her in line.  Doesn't mean it won't happen, it depends on how it seems to me that it will effect her and how deep my desire is, but I am definitely going to be much more aware of how that sort of behavior is going to effect her if I am in love than if I am not.  I'll definitely never hold back from telling her I love her, or expressing that love.  But if love is not expressed in ways that are truly desired by the person being loved, then it isn't really love is it?  It's something more selfish.



Zevar -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 11:40:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Hi, this question is ONLY to Masters, not mistresses or slaves, please (although if I've PM'ed you this link, then you're here by prior invitation regardless of status and so I DEFINITELY want your considered opinion). I've "Asked a Slave" a similar question and the results were pretty uninformative, so with that refinement in mind, here goes!

Do you see any conflict between how much love/affection you can lavish on a slave, and your dominance over her? If you are IN love, do you think there's a point at which too much lovey-dovey stuff, if it starts to cut into the 'stern' times, will lead to a loss of authority? This actually hasn't been my experience in the two relationships I've had since I dropped the whole societal bs about me wanting to be in an "equal" partnership; I've led and so far, I'd gotten the mix correct. But I can't say I was IN love either time; I get the feeling all the rules will be tossed out the window when I'm head over heels.

I ask this because, at heart, I'm a kind leader. I'm quite aware that from time to time, obedience MUST be blind without , authority must be stamped without tolerance of delay but on the whole, I wish to lead with transparency and with caring; I'm not a dictator. So - what have your experiences been, striking a balance between being in love with your slave, and being a Master?

I look forward to your thoughts, gentlemen (and a couple of dear ladies too!)

Jaybeee.


Greetings Jaybeee:

To begin I can appreciate you wanting input from those who identify as a master. Nonetheless, it is my understanding that ANYONE can contribute in ANY forum on ANY thread on CM.

I will now present my answers’ in regard to the following questions you asked:

1] Question: Do you see any conflict between how much love/affection you can lavish on a slave, and your dominance over her?

1] Answer:

I do not see a conflict so much as I realize that I have no real interest in lavishing love toward slave who I would allow to serve me. My dominance is immutable. Therefore nothing is capable of producing conditions that would bring about conflicting issues in my ability to rule in all instances.

Love is not an affliction that it could cause me to lose control. Instead it allows me to be in control in a deeper way than I thought possible. Thus my self mastery is enhanced by my efforts of mastering my abilities to control my inner most unseen being in a strengthened focused manner.

2] Question:If you are IN love, do you think there's a point at which too much lovey-dovey stuff, if it starts to cut into the 'stern' times, will lead to a loss of authority?

2] Answer:

Love is not a power that weakens my inner strength. I do not lose control over my mental capabilities when I am affectionate. Thus losing authority is not an option as I do not think along the lines of being able to lose what is naturally mine. But then I am 99% of the time intellectual when I master. 1% of the time I am inclined toward the emotional realm, when mastering.

3] Question: So - what have your experiences been, striking a balance between being in love with your slave, and being a Master?

3] Answer:

Again, my ability to master is not weakened nor am I incapacitated in my capacity to master when I choose to love. I strive to balance all I do, regardless of its nature. I am of the thought that if one is a master, there is nothing to remove the internal self mastery within a master, with the exception of self disgrace. But then that would only serve to be for a period of time. Mastery is not something that is bought or acquired from another. Instead mastery is something that comes from within, where the uncompromising standards that contribute to a man reside.

Through self mastery and self examination mastery can only become strengthened, thus increasing the capacity of mastering. Loving a slave has nothing to do whatsoever with the internal realm where self mastery originates and resides. Balancing is natural as is dominance, in the natural order of Life.

Thus to consider that love cancels authority is likened to considering the wave being unrelenting to the shoreline. Regardless how powerful the lashing of the wave, the earth yields in beauty, all awhile balancing into a most perfectly formed shoreline. As though it was untouched yet somehow never the same.

I wish you most well!



DesFIP -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 11:43:57 AM)

OP, you don't have the right to tell others where they may or not post. The TOS specifically states that anyone may post in any section.

Two, it is also against TOS to cross post. Additionally the fact that you got answers you didn't like in the Ask a Sub section doesn't make those answers invalid.

For me, and for a lot of subs, if there isn't love, there will be no submission. If you don't love us, really care about us, and won't be hurt to lose us, then we won't trust you enough to give you control. Therefore this is a nonquestion. If you don't love her and thus she won't submit, you never had any authority to lose. Beyond all that, if authority is a role you put on that doesn't quite fit and that's why you can't maintain it, you aren't dominant to begin with.



Jaybeee -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 1:07:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

Love is one of those words that means a lot of different things.  I see it as an attachment, I want her around and even feel like I need her around, a regard, I want her to be happy, and an intense appreciation.  Now in a purely ownership dynamic, if I want to kiss her toes for hours, or cry on her shoulder, or whatever, she had better let me, she's my property isn't she? 


Yes she is, and yes she'd better damn well lap up the love you pour on her. It's a natural outpouring and if she doesn't appreciate it, she should treat you like a little USA - love you back, or leave you. I'm grateful for those practical examples.

quote:

On the other hand, if I love her I will take into account that it's going to make her feel uncomfortable and isn't going to fulfil her need for someone who keeps her in line. Doesn't mean it won't happen, it depends on how it seems to me that it will effect her and how deep my desire is, but I am definitely going to be much more aware of how that sort of behavior is going to effect her if I am in love than if I am not. I'll definitely never hold back from telling her I love her, or expressing that love. But if love is not expressed in ways that are truly desired by the person being loved, then it isn't really love is it? It's something more selfish.


I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that any outpouring of love on my part is going to be natural, spontaneous, and unstoppable by anyone but God - and if she's in any way uncomfortable, she can just ASK me to be more forceful. Which is fine, I'll more forcefully kiss her, or I'll order her to do something even if it's only cleaning up the bed after we've finished. Even in your tears example, even in the most abject, hoarse cry of "Just please don't leave me right now", her shoulders drenched with tears, there's still the possibility of holding her so tight she physically COULDN'T go anywhere. There's always something.




allthatjaz -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 2:15:24 PM)

barleyangel, I completely except that what you say is right within your relationship and is consistent with your needs.
Within my relationship, the expressions of love that you don't want in your relationship have only gone on to increase the power dynamic.
The only conclusion we can draw from this is perhaps the most obvious one, that all our relationships are different and that we are blessed to have found partners who can fulfill them.





WolfyMontgomery -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 2:20:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
barleyangel, I completely except that what you say is right within your relationship and is consistent with your needs.
Within my relationship, the expressions of love that you don't want in your relationship have only gone on to increase the power dynamic.
The only conclusion we can draw from this is perhaps the most obvious one, that all our relationships are different and that we are blessed to have found partners who can fulfill them.


This, totally. It all depends on the people and the dynamic. What works for me and Master doesn't work for others. I've known of people who as soon as they fell in love they so feared hurting the other that D/s play was tossed out the window, and I know that I am a good example of someone where the love just makes that Master and slave bond that much more potent.

It all depends on you, what you want, what you need, and what the person you are with needs. =)



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 3:18:31 PM)

There are many types of love, but for purposes of this discussion I will assume you mean the deep, bonding as a mate kind of love.

Yes it can be done, but self assessment and control must be used quite often if you wish to maintain a power exchange relationship. After a time it becomes second nature, and you learn the little things that can snare and distract you from guiding the dynamic to one of M/s or whatever.

I have a saying that stands true to this day, "I must own my slave more than I love her. The more that I own her, the deeper I can love her." With my property the ownership must come first. I have spoken with other owners in a 24/7 relationship, and most of them have expressed the same thing. I have also known owners to allow the love to control them too much, so that their slave was now in control by utilizing that emotion to get what they wanted.



barelynangel -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:00:48 PM)

I am amused at many responses in this thread who read what i posted.  Why?  Because many of you seem to think that the ownership relationship i speak about was somehow void of something you think you have.  That love for you brings about a concept that my relationship with my Master didn't have.  My favorite is the implication that his saying he loves you and the love makes it a stronger bond etc.

I am really curious as to what people think about the relationship i speak about, the one wherein don't tell me you love me show me you own me is at play.  Do you think as it seems many do it was somehow less than or devoid of something like emotion or romance or caring or need or what?   Do you think its a cold relationship, unemotional or somehow not bonded?

It seems like a lot of people think a relationship such as this is lacking something and i am curious as to what you really think that is.  So i am curious, what do you all who think the relationship i described is lacking or that it somehow could have been "more if his love was added" because our relationship wasn't motivated by love but instead by ownership?  What do you think it didn't have that yours does outside of an expression of "love."


angel



WolfyMontgomery -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:07:37 PM)

It's one of those "To each their own" things.
I couldn't feel owned without being loved, though I do know of people who can and do. Part of my need in an M/s or D/s relationship is the fact that it's a relationship first, we're in love, and then we added the M/s to spice it up and make things better. But the love has to come first for me, and it is what makes me want to give myself to ownership.



barelynangel -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:30:30 PM)

quote:

seeming contradiction between your prodigious intellect and desire to be enslaved.


Hi Jaybeee not to hijack the thread but your statement here has me wondering what you mean by seeming contradiction?  grins though i would change the word desire to need and enslaved to mastered.  Which may shed some light on the connection between the two.

angel



daddysprop247 -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:31:42 PM)

as usual, angel has expressed my feelings on this perfectly. but i find myself confused at some of the responses to her posts, who clearly have misunderstood her words...like me, she craves and needs love...but the security and peace of ownership must come first.

i am madly in love with my Master, but this was not always so. when i first became his slave, i liked him, i respected him, i revered him. but i did not love him in any sense. as the bonds of my slavery to him grew ever tighter, as it firmly sunk in that i was really and truly owned, and exactly what that meant...i had no choice but to fall in love. likewise, he had no choice but to fall in love with me. but love will never be the foundation of this relationship...it cannot be, that would be rather foolish.



kiwisub12 -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:32:13 PM)

My first Sir was dominant, sadistic and very  much in love with me. Trust me when i say, he was as dominant and sadistic in year five as he was in year one.  For us at least, there was no issue with love and domination - in fact they were mutually reinforcing.

and he was as demonstrative of his love as he was capable of being.

We had a great relationship - love and all. [:D]



daddysprop247 -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:33:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

quote:

seeming contradiction between your prodigious intellect and desire to be enslaved.


Hi Jaybeee not to hijack the thread but your statement here has me wondering what you mean by seeming contradiction?  grins though i would change the word desire to need and enslaved to mastered.  Which may shed some light on the connection between the two.

angel


angel, don't you know? most of us slaves are something barely above drooling zombies, unable to leave the house without our helmets. [:D]



(and before anyone gets touchy, j/k folks!)



WolfyMontgomery -> RE: Being in love with a slave - can a man maintain authority? (10/19/2010 4:38:27 PM)

quote:

but the security and peace of ownership must come first.


I didn't misunderstand her as far as I know. While others might have, I merely replied saying it is different for each person.

Where you need to feel owned first and then it turns into love, I am the opposite - I need to be loved first, and only then can I be truly comfortable in giving my self to them to be owned. =) My security comes from the love, and the ownership came second.


Edited to add this reply, cuz I didn't want to double post, and it was too funny to pass up:
quote:

angel, don't you know? most of us slaves are something barely above drooling zombies, unable to leave the house without our helmets.

>_> ..... <_<

Master drools in his sleep. Does that mean he's in the wrong role? XP



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