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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:19:09 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


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Status: offline 		Don't tell people you adopted, and that will stop all the oh but you need to give birth comments lol.


But I think it's actually very noble, in a way to  want to give another child a crack at a home, instead of adding one more to the already over populated.  A lot of children do not ever get adopted, or know a home of their own. And if you're older than a certain age oh hell forget about it, you're passed up for kids younger and cuter and ones who'll fit in better.

My brother and I were 2 and 4 by the time we were adopted, because our birth mother was unfit and the courts took us away and she signed away her rights and most people didn't want kids that old, but add that we came as a set, that made us hard to place children. We were very lucky our now parents not only wanted the both of us, but loved  us for who we were, not the age we were.
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


I am very maternal. I hope that Valyraen and I will have at least two children. However, at this time I have no intention of ever becoming pregnant. I truly want to have our child through adoption and Valyraen, he and his sibling being adopted themselves, has positively no problem with this.

People are often shocked by this, questioning why a maternal woman doesn't want to carry a child. The truth is, I really don't want to get pregnant. I have no desire in this world to give birth. I don't think the process is magical, I don't think it's required to create a bond between mother and child, and am physically unable to produce milk for an infant anyway - not that I really want to be a gummed at. Now, this is not to say that having biological children is wrong. I just feel no desire to actually do it myself and don't see the appeal to it that others do.

I want to adopt. I am unable to fathom the idea of a child being unwanted. It's hard to me to process that there are kids out there that need homes and people aren't scrambling to give them homes and beds and love. That's how I think and nobody is required to think the same as me. If everyone did, we'd stop making babies and that would lead to the species dying out!

I understand that not everyone is up for adopting a baby. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why do I take so much shit for wanting to adopt?

Men - I find this quite funny - tell me that I'm going to regret missing out on the experience of pregnancy and childbirth. Women tell me I'm selfish because I'm not giving Valyraen a baby. Well, I am. It just didn't come out of my womb and will probably be around 5+ years old since we don't feel like struggling to adopt an infant.

This just doesn't make sense to me. I really understand that some, maybe even most, people aren't up for adoption. But I don't understand why it's this horrible last resort thing. When I've called agencies, they wanted to know my hair and eye color to assure me that they could 'match me' with a baby. It's not a damn handbag, it's my child! I don't care he or she 'matches'! All the materials were assuring us that it was ok we are infertile, that we aren't 'wrong'.

I suspect I'm not fertile but we don't have a clue and don't intend to find out. I'd rather adopt a child who needs me than create one. And I just don't see what is so damn selfish about that. Have other people had this experience with the subject of adoption? If so, how have you handled it?

I know this probably sounds like a rant but I would like to gather more information. I fully intend to adopt and if this the crap I'm getting now, I want to know what I'm going to be dealing with when I'm actually in the process and having to explain "No, I'm not infertile, I just want to give a child a loving home".


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:20:38 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

ps.. you did not exclude your parents.. if you had I would not have mentioned them...they are people too. And remember there are many parents that are not yours... in fact all but two and they could be thinking the same thing... just as I did.

But please you must understand I am not saying it is right… just that it is thought.

Butch


I excluded them when I responded to you saying that they don't have a problem with it overall. Why you continue to include them is beyond me.

So you are saying that when I adopt a kid, I'm forcing strangers to love my kid because they are also parents? o.O


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:25:24 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		right... the first thing a stranger or a casual acquaintance asks me when I say I'm married...when are you going to have kids... OK

I'll step back now and let others carry the conversation...good luck to you.

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/24/2010 11:28:42 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

right... the first thing a stranger or a casual acquaintance asks me when I say I'm married...when are you going to have kids... OK

I'll step back now and let others carry the conversation...good luck to you.


Oh good grief... did I say first thing? Show me where I said first thing. I don't appreciate people putting words in my mouth.

The nature of my employment is that I see the same person over and over again. We have small casual conversations that lead to conversations like that. As for co-workers, I see them all the time. We spend hours together. We talk. I've been told about their problems with their kids, why shouldn't I mention that I'm looking forward to adopting?


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 12:16:23 AM   
AquaticSub


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Status: offline 		Woot... just got a REALLY long "love note" about how I'm selfish cause I won't try to have a biological kid. Evidently the fact that I don't want to have to kid with Valyraen means I'm not willing put in the effort needed for a kid. Mmm... sperm and egg... so much effort!

To the nameless person who made that love note... put your opinion here. Seriously... own up to it.

Edited to add: Got better - Evidently my disdain for the process of childbirth makes me unworthy as mother. >.<

Seriously people - learn to read. I don't see anything magical about it. That doesn't mean it isn't unique. Just that it's not something I feel I need to experience. I really hope the person in question comes over here to publicly state their opinion instead of filling my inbox with their hate for me.


< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 10/25/2010 12:28:17 AM >

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 1:07:18 AM   
myotherself


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Status: offline 		I teach children in a very deprived area. Many of them are the product of homes that should never have children. Homes where physical and emotional neglect and abuse are everyday occurences. Drugs, alcohol, criminality are the norm. I have had conversations with "parents" who are asked to come into school to discuss their child's behaviour issues who will quite happily say in front of the child that they never wanted them in the first place, and they don't care about them now they have them. Imagine looking into a child's eyes after they've heard that. It happens pretty much weekly at my school, and every time it breaks my heart a little bit more.

Can anyone imagine going through their childhood hearing that not only are they not wanted by their parents, but that they don't deserve love? It happens a LOT. I see a lot of damaged children who turn into damaged adults and damaged parents. This is an endless cycle of despair, anger and pain that can be helped greatly by people like Aqua and Val.

So what if they don't want to physically have their own children? That leaves room for some of these vulnerable children to find love and support with two people who absolutely, 100% want to have children. I, for one, am completely blown away by the generosity and love coming from people like these. I only wish to god there were hundreds - thousands! - more like them.

Aqua and Val - I think you're wonderful, and you have my heartfelt thanks for what you plan to do


edited for typo

< Message edited by myotherself -- 10/25/2010 1:11:52 AM >

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 1:30:20 AM   
subtlebutterfly


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From: Not your hood
Status: offline 		I don't want kids really, I'm not a big fan of them unless I can return them.

Physically I don't think there's anything in the way of me being able to get pregnant or give birth to a baby. However, I've always said that if I were to have kids I'd adopt, ever since I was a kid. Do I get shit for it? Yep fo'sho - both for not wanting to have kids and for wanting to adopt rather than having my own if it came to it.
Honestly? I don't really give a damn what people think.... even though it's kind of annoying to discover that people found it so wrong that they had to advertize how wrong, ridiculous and nasty my decision is. I still did get a backup through that advertising though. Besides, I don't want to go through the whole pregnancy thing and don't think it's that important part of having a baby.

There're plenty of children out there that deserve a better life and are miserable etc.. I don't see the point in giving birth to my own when I could help one or two that are just as amazing creatures. Why giving birth to a baby n provide them in the best way possible when you could give that to a baby that otherwise might never have that same opportunity?!

< Message edited by subtlebutterfly -- 10/25/2010 1:32:29 AM >

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 1:57:57 AM   
twistedwillow


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I loved being pregnant, loved the whole experience of being pregnant, and very much want both the experience and the resultant product again however, I would also gladly adopt.

To you, Aqua, I think it is awesome that you want to adopt instead of 'growing your own' .
Can't give a reason as to why you would get the negativity. I can understand maybe a bit of confusion from people who don't understand
how you can not have the need to procreate but negativity, no.

In any case, I hope it does happen ( adoption ) for you and Val, and I know you will both make awesome parents.

hugs

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 4:41:07 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The reason the adoption agencies are being so rejecting is because they have experience with people who adopt, then get pregnant and feel differently towards the adopted child than to the biological one.

Bonding is not accomplished magically even with a child just out of the womb. With one who has five years worth of experience being rejected repeatedly and bounced in and out of foster homes, it will take years. If during those many years that the child is testing you to see when you will send them back, you became pregnant and bonded easier and quickly with the new baby, the adopted child will know that you don't love them the same.

I'm surprised you didn't bother to find out why they are so leary of doing this, as being able to respond point by point is your best way of accomplishing it.


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 4:55:28 AM   
MrKicia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

right... the first thing a stranger or a casual acquaintance asks me when I say I'm married...when are you going to have kids... OK

I'll step back now and let others carry the conversation...good luck to you.


Are you joking?  My wife and I have had many strangers ask us when we plan on having kids.  After they establish you are married, they seem to blurt this out soon after.

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 5:41:38 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		If you are planning on adopting older children, you may want to consider fostering them first or fostering period.  I agree there are older kids that need to be loved and have families, and think its great when people want to adopt.

However, what you are running into is the "blood" concept.  I think even in this day and age the idea of someone being of your blood is important to many.  So its hard to fathom when a couple doesn't want to have that bond of a child of their own blood == mixed and carrying on part of themselves into the future.  People who decide not to have children i think get the same type of grief you are from people.

All in all, its an expensive road and a very emotional one and exhaustive one.  Good luck, in whatever you decide.  Take what people are saying with a grain of salt, most of it is disbelief that two people who claim to love each other don't want to continue their bloodlines together.  Even in this day and age that concept is ingrained in many people still.  Once you get the kid, everyone will forget their abhorance to the idea of your not wanting a biological kid and will oohhh and ahhh over him or her.

angel


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 5:50:08 AM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
B) I'm not asking about them. I'm asking about people who are giving me shit for my choice.


My own personal opinion (as an adoptive parent) is that you should put all of these plans on hold until and unless you get to a point where people giving you shit about this choice doesn't bother you.

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 6:16:24 AM   
LadyRian


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Status: offline 		I don't think the desire to adopt is selfish, bad or wrong, in fact, to me it's the exact opposite. Who cares whether someone's body is capable of pregnancy? That's not the point. To those people so overly concerned with DIY, I suggest they DIT, as well as MYOB.
A child is a soul, as are we all. Adopting a child, bearing a child, to me, same thing. Why? Because one is opening their heart and connecting their soul to another, to a child, and the love bond which is formed is in my opinion identical, many times even better, than mere biology.

How many people have seen the soul devastation caused by unwanted children? And I'm not talking about the ones given up for adoption. Many of these children are loved and wanted, but the circumstances behind their birth are such that they cannot stay with bio-mom. They are given in hopes that they'll be adopted by a loving, caring person, and have the chance for a truly good life. I'm talking about the ones who are kept in a situation where one, or possibly both parents might not really care all that much, or cannot care for them based on circumstances, or had them for the wrong reasons, and are negelcted, abused, living in hell.  So much for blood.

Adopting a child out of love is a noble and beautiful thing. Love doesn't depend on biological boundaries.




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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 7:29:17 AM   
NuevaVida


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Status: offline 		In general, it is human nature for people to think everyone in the world should agree with their versions of right and wrong.  So if you're living in a way that someone else would not live, they (generally speaking) may feel a need to tell you how wrong you are.

The idea of adopting when you can birth your own is a very foreign concept to many people, so they immediately reject it, and then feel compelled to tell you about it.  While it can be annoying, finding a way to not let it bother you at all would be ideal.  When I was married, I was always asked when I would be having kids.  I wanted kids more than anything, and mid-way through the marriage my husband decided it wasn't going to happen.  So that was a very personal question whose answer was nobody's business.  That's the thing about life - people are always putting their noses in your business, without a clue how intrusive they are being.  It's up to us to try not to be affected by it.

As for WHY people reject the idea - - I'd say if you were wanting to adopt a baby (noting you said you'd prefer an older child first), people might find that to be selfish because there is such a LONG waiting list for people who CAN'T birth their own, to adopt babies.  My sister waited years before her first baby came to her, and then another 2 years for the second (both adopted - she could not carry her own pregnancy and after losing 5 babies, both tubes were destroyed).  The whole process - of trying to get pregnant and try to carry to term, then waiting for her first baby through adoption - took 9 painful years. 

At the time, for every baby up for adoption, there were 7 waiting birth-mom's.  Saying "I can have my own kids but I want to adopt a baby instead" limits adoptive mothers whose only way of having a child is through the adoptive process.  So in a sense, you would be taking away from them by limiting their odds even more.

Des also makes a good point, that there are people who adopt, only to become pregnant and birth a child later, and feel differently about the adopted child.  Or they become pregnant during the adoptive process, and then cancel the adoption.  Women who can not give birth pose less of a risk of backing out.

As for "not worthy of being a mom?"  That's just stupid, and you're smart enough to logically know how absurd a statement like that is.  So don't take such things to heart.


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:07:58 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		How can giving a child a loving home be a selfish act ? Ignore the idiots out there.

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:11:44 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian

I don't think the desire to adopt is selfish, bad or wrong, in fact, to me it's the exact opposite. Who cares whether someone's body is capable of pregnancy? That's not the point. To those people so overly concerned with DIY, I suggest they DIT, as well as MYOB.
A child is a soul, as are we all. Adopting a child, bearing a child, to me, same thing. Why? Because one is opening their heart and connecting their soul to another, to a child, and the love bond which is formed is in my opinion identical, many times even better, than mere biology.

How many people have seen the soul devastation caused by unwanted children? And I'm not talking about the ones given up for adoption. Many of these children are loved and wanted, but the circumstances behind their birth are such that they cannot stay with bio-mom. They are given in hopes that they'll be adopted by a loving, caring person, and have the chance for a truly good life. I'm talking about the ones who are kept in a situation where one, or possibly both parents might not really care all that much, or cannot care for them based on circumstances, or had them for the wrong reasons, and are negelcted, abused, living in hell.  So much for blood.

Adopting a child out of love is a noble and beautiful thing. Love doesn't depend on biological boundaries.



This!

Aqua I hated being pregnant, I really hated it. I actually never wanted to be pregnant and soon after my daughter was born I made sure it would never happen again. My childrens' biological father was the most worthless choice of a father my kids could have had. Fortunately another wonderful man stepped up to the plate and did the best possible job he could have. It wasn't easy for him, they were already 10 and 12 years old. There was A LOT of baggage to deal with. But it was dealt with and there is love and respect today.

I recommend reading everything you can find on the subject written by Jamie Lee Curtis. She adopted both of her children and has written extensively about the experience. I am sure there are websites specifically for adoptive parent support that would also be of great benefit.

I applaud what you wish to do and cannot imagine what kind of selfish, narrow minded, moronic, thinking is behind the behaviour these people/person, is directing towards you.


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:18:41 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

Thats Very odd because ive NEVER met anyone who would have an issue with adoption or with choosing adoption over having biological children except for 3 incompatible doms.

And Ive asked people their opinions and they told me they were being honest.

Im sure some might have been keeping their mouth shut to not hurt my feelings. However Im not sure all people or even the majority of people feel as you do.

It just seems more selfish/wrong to demand a child of your own, when their are thousands of children who need homes.



Me either. I do not understand why on earth this would be an issue. No one sqawks when Angelina Jolie adopts a boatload of kids.

Aqua, you are a very smart girl. Why even ask this on a message board? I applaud your choice. I would love to have been able to have or adopt a child.

Two of my cousins had their own kids and still chose to adopt as well as they felt they wanted to help unwanted kids out. My adopted cousins are just as loved and special as their borne kids.

What a strange thing to have an issue with...but again, if you put a question out there, you are going to get all kinds of opinions.

I say go for it, girl!

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:32:54 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

What a strange thing to have an issue with...but again, if you put a question out there, you are going to get all kinds of opinions.



As mentioned in my post, I believe it becomes an issue when talking about adopting babies.  But when wanting toddlers and older kids?  I also don't understand the issue.


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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:55:38 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		I can't think of anything less selfish and more good than opening your home to a child in need of one.

There are so many children that need loving and safe homes already. Try to ignore the idiots who try to make you feel wrong for not wanting to get pregnant and have a biological child.

Best wishes and Godspeed!!

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RE: Adoption = Bad? Selfish? Wrong? - 10/25/2010 8:57:37 AM   
DamnPickyDomme


Posts: 97
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Status: offline 		let me preface this by saying i am a parent, i have biological and adopted children and i have fostered. my oldest is 19, my youngest is 12 and if i could i'd adopt again. i just don't have the space in my home.

now, anyone who says it's wrong not to have a biolgical child is a complete asshat. i can think of multiple reasons; genetic diseases can be passed along, pregnancy is risky to the child as environmental factors and things ingested by the mother can affect the development of that child. pregnancy can be risky to the health of the mother as unexpected things can develop and cause long term effects. childbirth itself has its risks to both mother and child. i can understand if someone looks at that and says no thanks. my ex husband and i tried for many years and our son was born disabled despite the best medical care. we decided to adopt because we wanted more kids, but giving them life ourselves wasn't possible and so many little ones needed homes. the problem is even worse 18 years later.

adoption DOES NOT have to be expensive. foreign adoption is expensive and given the custom of paying a foreign government for the priviledge of adopting a child nobody wanted and was state supported, essentially it's human trafficking. i was appalled many years ago to read that a government official admitted that he and his wife paid the chinese government $16k for their daughter. why? private domestic adoptions are expensive as you are paying a lawyer to represent you, an agency to do yourbackground checks and home study as well as post-placement supervision and often are supporting the birth mother prior to the birth of her child. there are many children in the system, from newborns to those ready to age out, in government custody. all three of my adoptions were through our county agency. we adopted a 10 month old, two years later we adopted a nine day old baby and then three years later we adopted a two year old. all three adoptions cost us NOTHING. our county agency provided pre-service training, did all the paperwork, background checks, home study, helped us search for children, post-placement supervision was done by the same workers and they helped us finalize the adoptions. all this cost us absolutely nothing. take advantage of your government services, that's what we pay taxes for!

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