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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:16:58 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think we make things too damn complicated when we don’t have to. After all an economy is just a balance of trading my work for yours to fill both our wants and needs.

I say stick to that basic principle…work hard…promote local industry…and let the market ebb and flow as necessary.

Industry that fills our needs will flourish and those that don’t should be allowed to fail. I think it was a mistake by both parties to bail out any business. Those assets were not physically going anywhere they were either there or they were not. Another better run company would have bought them up and moved on more competitively .

So I hope the change will be promote fair business practices but other than that keep hands off the economy and let the necessary adjustments and natural balances occur.

Butch


Well that was the crux of the problem right? With the CDO's the assets weren't there. They were hyped by a market that needed to believe in them.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:31:02 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

With brainwashed liberals...it all begins and ends with 'Government'...that is the biggest mistake they seem unable to ever recover from... Well here goes...the way back to a healthy economy and freedom from the likes of this socialist regime and it's loony followers..

1... What happened to begin the trainwreck was the election of the Democrat controlled congress in 2006, and with George Sorros and the Tides Foundation now pulling the strings, the first goal of this 'third column' was to implode the economy to take that off the table for the GOP to have as an issue for 2008... The talking point mantra became 'HOUSING IS A RIGHT!' if I recall....and Fannie and Freddie were the corrupt insturments utilized to buy any and all subprime paper and have the government guarentee these mortgages all under the 'fairness' bullshit mantra, and allow Wallstreet to play games with all this bad paper so long as the governemnt saftey net was assured.... and the house came down... I will admit that George Bush was asleep at the wheel during all this with his attention focused on the wars... but it all was talking place with the complicity of the Barney Franks and Dodds led congress pushing it thru.... so to blame Bush is just so much hotair as usual when it comes to anything approaching reality... but when has a democrat ever dealt in reality? When the new republican house gets supoena powers back, I bet a whole bunch of these chickens will come home to roost when the dots are finally connected, and a bunch of folks will be heading off to jail where they belong...

2 All through history...when ANY government spends/absorbs greater than 28% of the gross domestic product...the private economy suffers and job growth stops...you can argue till your blue in the face, but that FACT is there and undeniable....our government now is approaching consuming almost 40% of the gross domestic product. Its time to cut government to the bone.... and layoff/fire thousands and thousands of bloodsucking brueacrats (sorry its tough all over)...and cut government by more than half.... whole departments need to be pitched into the dumper.... energy...commerce....education (yep...let local government run their own schools...it can not be any worse than it is now)... HHS....and defense civilian employment as well as retirement... everything that is spent by the federal government should be cut by a large amount.... raise the retirment age on Social Security, and dig into Medicare fraud and abuse big time.... cut cut cut, and then cut some more....

3 Sell government assets...big time! We don't need Fort Deruise in Honolulu on Waikiki Beach.. nor all the lands controlled by the Federal Burea of land managment....military lands... like Oakaloosa/Santa Rosa Island here.... so many valuable properities that do NOT need to be owned by the government.... including mineral rights... and timber rights.... sell it all if necessary to pay off the debt....

4 We have enough oil and gas reserves here to be exploited NOW to cut our imports by 2/3 very quickly.... open all government lands to private energy exploration and drilling....we need that oil to quit selling our souls to the fucking Arabs! Drill baby drill is right!

5 Cut capital gains taxes to less than 15%.... we have to compete in the marketplace and we are competing against economies with capital gains rates below 5%... The Laffer curve works...its a FACT...cut taxes...get more and more jobs.... despite the bloviations and lies of the left....it was PROVEN under Reagan and will be proven again...

Consider legalizing drugs to stop the outflow of money into Mexico...and STOP ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...even if it takes putting the entire US Marine Corps on the fucking border...and deport illegals ....they have NO rights to be here....and can re-apply thur legal immigration methods....period! ...no exceptons...

6 Give States the power and control of their soverign territories... get the feds out of ruling the country.... The founders wanted government close to the people, and Washington has had its shot and failed...its time to put the power down to the state level...if you don't like what a state does...move to one that you do like....

Get the government out of the mortgage economy...close Freddie and Fannie and sell off their assets.... and de-regulate de-regulate de-regulate.... if you fear Wall Street...invest your money elsewhere....try locally.... Wall Street will clean its own act up as soon as the people turn their backs on it.... the marketplace works FAR better than asshole politicians....

Finally....we have to trust our own people.... not government ...to solve our problems... America is about one thing...FREEDOM....nothing else...no other consideration tops that ONE THING.... either we survive together in Freedom...or we sink into civil conflict.... we have had our last chance if we act quickly to heal our wounds.... and that is the mission of the government that will be coming to power....either Obama realizes that the people are done with government solutions and is willing to comply with what is needed, or we get him out of the way by impeachment, or over-riding his vetos...either way we take him out of the game...he is a socialist and his idiology is about to be tossed on the scrap heap of history just like in the Soviet Union....

All that is just a start....either we take the medicine, or we get out the guns and settle it once and for all.... question is....which way willl it be..... but one thing for certain....the left is DONE... question is how they go about accepting a new reality... either peacefully...or by open armed conflict..... and you can take that to the so-called bank.... America is now fully awake, and the lies of Sorros and the spin machine left wing media won't save the dems from the people... They underestimated the people grossly...and now will pay the price...enjoy next Tuesday...its just the beginning....




No cuck, with the left it always starts with People. People's needs and care of people. In any policy that is advocated by the left that is the paramount thought going into that policy. How does it affect people.

The right , however, always start with the corporation or the "market" which seems to be the same thing in your view. Every proposal you put forward starts and ends with the thought of how it can or cannot help the Corporation. In the end, these policies and ideas always fail.

(in reply to cuckyman)
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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:36:40 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The Laffer curve works...its a FACT...cut taxes...get more and more jobs.... despite the bloviations and lies of the left....it was PROVEN under Reagan and will be proven again...
Even Reagan's people acknowledged it hadn't worked in the end.

What WAS proven, as Dick Cheney said ("Reagan proved deficits don't matter"), is that quadrupling government spending will create jobs--temporarily (as Bush I, who inherited the double digit unemployment, can attest).

But at a cost--it catches up with you, and here we are, saddled with mountains of debt (Bush II doubled the national debt), with interest rates so low they can't be cut further and yet a tight credit market.


(in reply to cuckyman)
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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:39:49 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Clinton,  Bush, Obama, and Regan, cabinets all had one thing in common.

The Reagan cabinet you make a big deal of having voted for, you mean?



TARP woke me up.  EVERYTHING changed over TARP.

Silver is up 271%..  I vote with my wealth. In other words- I back my position with my resources.  

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:41:58 AM   
kdsub


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Not a problem at all... if we had not interfered the problem would have rectified itself...no less painful but we would not be propping up poorly run business as we are today with tax payers money.

Poor business or business practices can not survive plain and simple...As an example it is just a matter of time before the credit card industry collapses. It will be foolish for the government to step in and prop them up don’t you think. If they want to give credit then unfairly try to recoup astronomical interests and fees until people cannot pay and default leaving them with the dept then let it happen.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:51:25 AM   
DomYngBlk


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Hey, not going to make a stand for TARP. As long as we are prepared to take care of people that are hurt in the economic mess then we can let chips fall where they may

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 10:53:09 AM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think we make things too damn complicated when we don’t have to.




Alot of that complication in today's markets came from deregulation.

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:06:07 AM   
kdsub


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And the problems would have self rectified...only good business practices will survive over time. Regulation, as in micro manage, does not work in a world economy. BUT don't get me wrong we do need regulations to keep business competitive and fair but there is a fine line between regulate and manage.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:11:19 AM   
kdsub


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I understand where you are coming from but...how do bailouts help? Again I'll use an example... say GM was not given money and went into bankruptcy... what would have happened?

All those assets... both material and workers... would have been bought up by more competitive car makers then used to produce better products... just what happened with the bailout but without our money.

We should not forgive business for their part in the collapse of the economy but neither can or should we forgive people who made poor economic decisions... we are all responsible and should pay the price.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/25/2010 11:14:40 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:11:28 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Hey, not going to make a stand for TARP. As long as we are prepared to take care of people that are hurt in the economic mess then we can let chips fall where they may



I am against austerity.    We cut the military- not the social programs.    So I agree with you on taking care of PEOPLE.      






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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:15:12 AM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
As an example it is just a matter of time before the credit card industry collapses.



Credit card industry is a great example.

But do you also realize that this industry, who is owned billions of dollars by questionable card-holding debtors, chose to hedge against any potential losses from their potentially deadbeat clientele and sought the same type of unregulated 'insurance' to cover their receivables. After all, what credit card company wouldn't want to get paid by 'insurance' when the customers who owe them money go bankrupt. Except the insurance company who sold them the policy has no equity in the tank to cover all the 'insurance' it sold. This will be round 2 of what we saw with the housing debacle.

The same line of thinking is what drove the takeover of GM. Now, GM went bankrupt for sloppy business practices of their own making, but the creditors who were owed money by GM bought loss hedging insurance, to be payable in the event GM went out of business, and they bought that insurance from AIG. And as we know, with AIG, there was no "there" there when the "policyholders" of the mortgage securities "insurance" rightfully should have been paid when their mortgage securities rotted. Since the taxpayer owned AIG, if GM had gone out of business, the taxpayer would have been on the hook to pay trillion of dollars worth of unregulated "GM insurance policies".  The choice for the taxpayer was to pay trillions of dollars in insurance payables, or take over the company and spend 50 billion (chump change, by comparison) to restore the company to health. Obviously, the 50 billion route was cheaper for the taxpayer, and that is what happened.

There is similar loss-hedging insurance on the books over interest rate changes (people want to have insurance make up the difference in borrowing costs when interest rates go up, right?), the solvency of state governments (people who are owed money there want to get paid too, right?), etc.  And all of this financial 'complication' was created by DEREGULATION.

The reason the credit card industry put million of credit cards into the hands of deadbeats was the same reason banks put mortgages in the hands of poor people.  A loss-hedging 'insurance' mechanism existed, and either course would be safe, right?  Too bad the unregulated insurance mechanism turned out to be a ponzi scheme.

< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 10/25/2010 11:43:58 AM >

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:21:11 AM   
kdsub


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Not deregulation but poor business practices... and when the roof falls in I'll say so long to you who ran your business poorly and welcome the next guy may he do better.

But I sure don’t want to prop up the guy that fucked up in the first place by having the government manage his poorly run business through regulations.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:30:37 AM   
cuckyman


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We wont have a country unless we sell off assets to pay this debt...its the only way out....

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:34:12 AM   
mnottertail


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so, sell off the country to save it.........a pyrrhic solution, eh?

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:34:28 AM   
cuckyman


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This country is about FREEDOM...not taking care of peole...if you wish to start a country that puts people's needs above all...fine...go start one somewhere else...just not THIS ONE... its about freedom first...jobs help people...jobs provide health care..jobs provide the money for people's needs... not government.... we tried that...and that is what that has got us here...broke and in debt up to our eyeballs.... you may wish to look at what is happening all over Europe...they have gotten the memo... its our turn to take our medicine and cut governemnt to the bone...no other way out....

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:34:29 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman


We wont have a country unless we sell off assets to pay this debt...its the only way out....


No.  Fraudulent debt does not have to be repaid.  let it go to a human jury of my peers.

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:34:42 AM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Not deregulation but poor business practices... and when the roof falls in I'll say so long to you who ran your business poorly and welcome the next guy may he do better.





If it was only that simple.....  It hardly is, tho.

When that roof falls in, it takes the global economy down with it.  Its not just a single company going *poof* anymore.

If GM had gone out of business, the insurance payables from all the interconnection in the financial sector would have been 2 to 3 times the GDP of the world.  Companies simply don't implode all by thesmelves under those circumstnaces. Rather, they take us all down.

How they were able to take out that degree of insurance, basically creating "too big to fail" in the pocess, was all on DEREGULATION.

And that is the gist of the problem.  A deregulated market hooked their fancy financial experiments to the global economy. We are the hostages.

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:36:07 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

This country is about FREEDOM...not taking care of peole...if you wish to start a country that puts people's needs above all...fine...go start one somewhere else...just not THIS ONE... its about freedom first...jobs help people...jobs provide health care..jobs provide the money for people's needs... not government.... we tried that...and that is what that has got us here...broke and in debt up to our eyeballs.... you may wish to look at what is happening all over Europe...they have gotten the memo... its our turn to take our medicine and cut governemnt to the bone...no other way out....


all fine and dandy- until we factor in corporate personhood.

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:42:57 AM   
cuckyman


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liberal 'economist' are just idiologues...and don't have a clue....and you call Milton Freedmon's Pulitzer Prize winning book a primer?... God!! the fucking arrogance of the left is amazing....they really think only they can think....and yet they are the ones always wrong on it all.... The founders had it right to begin with...we don't need anything other than to follow the plan they laid down.... and yet the left would disagree and change it all to suit their agenda.... well those days are OVER....hide and watch.... and do us all a favor...when you get another 'opinion' on something... keep it to yourself...that way you won't embarrass your parents too badly....

< Message edited by cuckyman -- 10/25/2010 11:46:22 AM >

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RE: What is the Republican plan? - 10/25/2010 11:44:50 AM   
cuckyman


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The left has a real fear of corporations...corporations are OWNED BY THE PEOPLE... when they benefit...the stockholders benefit also.... not the stinking government.... there are millions of people happily retired living on corporate dividend checks.... you might try it...it works better than government retirement or social security.....

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