RE: For those who use 3rd person speak...

RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (Full Version)

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ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 7:42:32 AM)
Forgive me please as I have had little sleep and I'm only on my first cup of coffee.... :) But, as I peruse this thread, the following thoughts come to mind: * I thought of Jimmy on Seinfeld: "Jimmy is happy today." He drove Elaine nuts. * Maybe a Master has his slave speak in 3rd person because he somehow wants her subjected to all the negative reactions and ridicule that she is bound to see from those who do not like it. * If speaking in 3rd person bothers people because it sucks them into the Master/slave's "play" (I see this as their way of life, not play), do other things bother them for the same reason? Facial piercings? Seeing someone in a posture collar? A slave who must speak in a low voice? A slave walking on a leash? A slave who is not allowed to speak in public at all, but dammit - you want to talk to her? Or is it only particular elements of D/s that are annoying? fyreredsub has been quite impressive in the way she continues to calmly and sweetly represent herself, despite all of the "Speaking in that way is stupid" posts (paraphrasing). Perhaps such training has helped her stay on her foundation while under fire. I don't truly understand speaking in 3rd person just as much as I don't understand why others appear to be so offended by it. * If someone posts something in 3rd person that is interesting to me, yet I don't understand it, I'll ask for clarification. If I don't understand it yet it does not draw much interest, I go to the next thread.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 7:59:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie * If speaking in 3rd person bothers people because it sucks them into the Master/slave's "play" (I see this as their way of life, not play), do other things bother them for the same reason? Facial piercings? Seeing someone in a posture collar? A slave who must speak in a low voice? A slave walking on a leash? A slave who is not allowed to speak in public at all, but dammit - you want to talk to her? Or is it only particular elements of D/s that are annoying? Good point, but the difference being that communication is an interactive dynamic- if you want to communicate with someone, you will have to enter into that dynamic with them. I wouldn't go so far as to say they are voiding my consent, but I can understand why it would make someone feel a bit uncomfortable. Just seeing someone wearing a leash doesn't require you to DO anything with it. A slave who speaks to you in the third person requires you to interpret and respond (if you want to engage in communication with them).

Reasonable -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:05:40 AM)
Isn't this a bit like the flapadoodle that comes from someone wanting you to use a title?

ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:09:45 AM)
True, I understand the difference in dynamic. I guess I was thinking of the brain processing that might occur with seeing someone in a way that one would not typically see someone. Regardless, visual and verbal both require processing; perhaps one more than the other. I do see your point. I guess I view the 3rd person speech as no different than anyone who has a speech pattern which requires a different kind of effort to understand. Does one get annoyed with people with speech impediments? Or with accents? While some would say "That's different, because 3rd person is a choice!" I say it is not a choice to the slave ordered to do so. If she wishes to keep her station with her Master, then she follows his orders. If someone else has such an issue with that, they should take it up with the Master, NOT take it out on the slave. She is property, after all...would someone become angry with a messy tree hanging into their yard, or with the property owner of that tree?

Dustee -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:11:20 AM)
I have a number of responses to third-speak, which I don't use. 1. I enjoy it in fourms--I like trying to figure out what the person is really saying. But then, I'm the sort of geek who really enjoyed patiently slogging through Iain Bank's Feersum Endjin. ;) 2. I don't enjoy it in someone who wants to have a personal relationship with me. At best, it labels that person as at a certain stage in their life and undestanding that I don't feel I can ever share; at worse it's one of the worst forms of pretentiousness: a conscious affectation. I also have a hard time dealing with mature submissive women who talk in a "Little Baby Girl" accent in voicechat. With your one and only who thinks you are the cutest widdle thing on earth, that's all very fine and well. But to subject strangers in a chatroom to that sort of blather speaks of a combination of arrogance and ignorance/disrespect of others' feelings that is really grating. 3. It reminds me of the bad old days in my teens and early 20s when I was a "spirtual seeker" and cult shopping. Several cults, notably the Gurdjieffians and the TOPY's, use similar language affectations, supposedly to educate and refine their consciousness.

darq -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:11:30 AM)
When spoken properly, third person speech is very beautiful to listen to. It sounds just a touch exotic, the way a Chinese or Japanese accent sounds exotic when the person is speaking fluent English. When spoken poorly its enough to try the patience of a saint. I used to speak third person 24/7 at all times and because I learned to speak it properly. most people didn't even notice right away what was different about me. When they did notice they expressed curiosity. For those who were in the lifestyle I would explain that it had several reasons ... It did remind me of my chosen place in life. I also took me out of myself and forced me to focus on what I was saying. It cured a great deal of my running off at the mouth. For those who were not in the lifestyle I simply said that it was how I was raised. Not a lie ... I don't consider my childhood to have factored terribly much in who I am as an adult ... I began to figure out my adult self when I became a submissive.

Reasonable -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:14:09 AM)
That line of reasoning doesn't always work owned. If a dog from next door bites you-you kick the dog off and call the pound. True,the owner is at fault for not socializing and controlling the animal. But if the animal is given no other behavioral choices-it is ultimately the owner to blame for the lack of insight and respect. He could have trained it not to bite. So the animal suffers first-then the owner-not terribly fair, but it works that way.

ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:15:25 AM)
That is because the dog is physically harming you and is a dangerous threat. I do not think 3rd person speak can hospitalize anyone....unless you're that person who goes into seizures when Mary Hart speaks.... :) (By the way, I completey agree with you about the dog owner being at fault)

Reasonable -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:16:45 AM)
Let me use another anaology, suppose I were an owner,and told a girl she must use the address "this nutcase" in refference to herself for a day. I'm sure it affects many here to hear someone constantly saying "this girl" in much the same manner-so is the owner respecting others?

ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:18:30 AM)
I agree with you - it would cause those she is talking to to have to process what she is saying, and deal with it. Fair or unfair, I say take it up with the owner, rather than take it out on the slave. You seem to be agreeing with that, unless I have misunderstood...?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:20:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie I guess I view the 3rd person speech as no different than anyone who has a speech pattern which requires a different kind of effort to understand. Does one get annoyed with people with speech impediments? Or with accents? A lot of people do actually. It CAN be frustrating when you're trying to convey something specific. But there's also a difference between saying "Gosh that's annoying" and "You're forcing me to be part of your dynamic." I have hearing problems and I get very frustrated when people talk away from me or when I'm not looking at their face, but they aren't doing anything consciously to annoy me and I know that. When someone chooses a method of communication that causes frustration, it's understandable why others would be even more annoyed by it. quote: If someone else has such an issue with that, they should take it up with the Master, NOT take it out on the slave. She is property, after all...would someone become angry with a messy tree hanging into their yard, or with the property owner of that tree? Well the issue of "do you talk to the slave or the master?" is a separate one, but given this particular circumstance of having a specific problem with a specific rule given by the master, I think you're right. Go to the master and explain specifically the communication snafu- the slave might be in need of further training, or it might just be a communication glitch on your side, or something else altogether.

Reasonable -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:20:23 AM)
We are in accord. Just because you can,doesn't always mean you SHOULD. Even owners must deal with social limitations, outside of thier circles of agreement.[;)] Let me use a cruder analogy. If I then told a girl "you must pee on the leg of everyone you meet today." I would naturally expect to have some negativity directed my way-unless I was a total idiot.

ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:31:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross A lot of people do actually. It CAN be frustrating when you're trying to convey something specific. But there's also a difference between saying "Gosh that's annoying" and "You're forcing me to be part of your dynamic." It is unfortunate that people get so frustrated (regarding accents and such), but I understand it happens. Having so many relatives with thick accents (mother, aunts, uncles), I grew up witnessing the rudeness of others when they could not understand. However, I think anyone communicating with someone who has an accent or speech impediment is also being forced to comprehend differently. Whether 3rd person speech, accents, speech impediments, etc., those who interact with people who have "different" dialogue have a choice to interact or not. Being critical really does nothing to change the dynamic. quote: I have hearing problems and I get very frustrated when people talk away from me or when I'm not looking at their face, but they aren't doing anything consciously to annoy me and I know that. When someone chooses a method of communication that causes frustration, it's understandable why others would be even more annoyed by it. I understand the difficulties of hearing issues. However, your statement implies that a slave speaking in the 3rd person is choosing to do so. If she is simply obeying orders, than we are really just frustrated with her for her obedience. To become annoyed at her for what that obedience is, is a bit unfair in my opinion. Thanks, LA and Reasonable, for the great dialogue...

ownedgirlie -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:33:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reasonable Let me use a cruder analogy. If I then told a girl "you must pee on the leg of everyone you meet today." I would naturally expect to have some negativity directed my way-unless I was a total idiot. Ha! I hope you feed her lots of water...she might need it to "stock up" [;)] I still contend that physical interaction (would that not be a form of assult?) is different than dialogue.

fyreredsub -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:36:17 AM)
a girl thanks you owned[:)]. as to clarify for those that feel as tho they are sucked into 'our play'...Goreans do not play ,they do not scene.. it is a 24/7 lifestyle. it is not something that stops when one walks out of the dungeon nor is it something that is negotiated. the Free speak, the slave does.end of story. wishing you well quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Forgive me please as I have had little sleep and I'm only on my first cup of coffee.... :) But, as I peruse this thread, the following thoughts come to mind: * I thought of Jimmy on Seinfeld: "Jimmy is happy today." He drove Elaine nuts. * Maybe a Master has his slave speak in 3rd person because he somehow wants her subjected to all the negative reactions and ridicule that she is bound to see from those who do not like it. * If speaking in 3rd person bothers people because it sucks them into the Master/slave's "play" (I see this as their way of life, not play), do other things bother them for the same reason? Facial piercings? Seeing someone in a posture collar? A slave who must speak in a low voice? A slave walking on a leash? A slave who is not allowed to speak in public at all, but dammit - you want to talk to her? Or is it only particular elements of D/s that are annoying? fyreredsub has been quite impressive in the way she continues to calmly and sweetly represent herself, despite all of the "Speaking in that way is stupid" posts (paraphrasing). Perhaps such training has helped her stay on her foundation while under fire. I don't truly understand speaking in 3rd person just as much as I don't understand why others appear to be so offended by it. * If someone posts something in 3rd person that is interesting to me, yet I don't understand it, I'll ask for clarification. If I don't understand it yet it does not draw much interest, I go to the next thread.

Reasonable -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:46:28 AM)
Owned,the feeling of being assaulted bears little less resemblance to many, than what I quoted about the peeing. It is still seen as an arrogant,elitist master pushing his "one true way onto people who did not consent to it. And the slave as being much the same-for going along with it. Your world differs from that of others-never forget that. Fail to,and suffer the consequences-I'm done here.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 8:56:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fyreredsub as to clarify for those that feel as tho they are sucked into 'our play'...Goreans do not play ,they do not scene.. it is a 24/7 lifestyle. it is not something that stops when one walks out of the dungeon nor is it something that is negotiated. One can be 24/7 AND play and scene. They are not mutually exclusive.

fyreredsub -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 9:02:29 AM)
one does not have a choice with a dog bite but they do have a choice to skip the post... sort of like those annoying commercials that come on tv or if you do not like the song on the radio... one flips to the next channel[&:] or in this case goes to the next post or put the person on block if you know they speak in a manner that annoys you. it never ceases to amaze this one how in the world of WIITWD that there is so much..... inacceptance for others that do not agree with lifestyle choices yet, isnt being different why each and every one of us is here? this girl wishes you well

fyreredsub -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 9:03:45 AM)
thank you LA for the lesson on Gorean behavior[;)] quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: fyreredsub as to clarify for those that feel as tho they are sucked into 'our play'...Goreans do not play ,they do not scene.. it is a 24/7 lifestyle. it is not something that stops when one walks out of the dungeon nor is it something that is negotiated. One can be 24/7 AND play and scene. They are not mutually exclusive.

Mercnbeth -> RE: For those who use 3rd person speak... (4/27/2006 9:27:46 AM)
quote: fyreredsub: it never ceases to amaze this one how in the world of WIITWD that there is so much..... inacceptance for others that do not agree with lifestyle choices fyrered, Why? We are all judgmental. And I specifically use ALL because in this case, as apposed to those who love to begin their replies with; "all subs do..., or all couples go through..." it's accurate. Want to see judgment, look in the profiles, you can argue "hard limits" are judgement? Adultery, infidelity, threads - judgment. Why a slave or sub would solicit advice and within the question disclose more to a public forum than she/he has disclosed to their Dom/Master; in my judgment a poor reflection of the Master/Dom. The bottom line is - so what? If it weren't for judgmental posts this site would be boring! When focus is put on any one facet of a relationship the perspective of the reader versus the perspective of the poster requires judgment. Diamonds, round ones, have 58 facets. Shown in their entirety they reflect a brilliant light. Even "flawless" diamonds have flaws. Focus on one and you can argue and judge, that you are spending a lot of money on a pretty piece of coal or carbon. It's the same with any relationship put out there under a jeweler's loop, it's normal and expected to focus on the flaws. Yet when the diamond is on the finger, most only see the brilliant light. (ok - maybe some green eyed friends with built in "jeweler's loops" will whisper behind your back but they represent the fraudulent friends and people better to avoid anyway.) It's the same when a BDSM lifestyle relationship is put under the scrutiny of a forum "jeweler's loop". This thread focuses on one facet. To some it's a a facet flaw which is to be avoided; to other's it represents a unique characteristic. To the people who own the diamond it doesn't matter. They have all the facets to look at. If the question was; "how many slaves get '5 of the best' with a cane before bedtime"; or "how many slaves sleep on the floor" instead of Master's bed"; or "how many slaves sleep in some form of bondage"; those facets would be up to judgment too. Accept judgment - smile at the "worse case" examples and "comparisons" sited. Be confident that the diamond you've formed from the rock of carbon requires no validation from any source that it is beautiful; and for you "flawless".

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