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RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 10:01:03 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

But don't fool yourself, there are plenty of people who would not respect you in the morning, just as in vanilla life where you have sex too soon, some may not consider you a good prospect.

This

The same types who would lose respect for a sub who consented to have play with him are the same types who lose respect for women who have sex with them. In many cases, is this not why there are so many men who chose vanilla women to marry but seek to fulfill their depravity with outsiders who they cannot commit to? And yes, the fault is in their own view of sexuality. Maybe it was set up that way by religion and/or parents, but once they got to be adults the fault is theirs for not recognizing the problem and seeking help to resolve the issues before they ruin other people's lives.

And let's be honest, this is no different than a gay male who choses to stay in the closet and marry a woman while ignoring the battering her esteem takes when she recognizes that her husband, who claims to love her, finds her repugnant sexually.

Which is why I looked for men who were self aware and had identified his own issues and sought help resolving them. We all have them, but if you don't reduce the amount of baggage, it will tumble down and usually hurt an innocent party as well in the process.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 21

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 10:01:04 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Someone asked for my definition of depravity.

Depravity has only the definition you hold. For some that could be just a blow job. For others, hours of torture and rimming. The extent of that depravity isnt a concern for me. That is between you and the person you engage with. I dont use the term in a derogatory manner. I happen to embrace depravity as good ole fun.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to phoenixmoonn13)

Post #: 22

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 10:41:17 AM

Shadow-tiger

Posts: 1775
Joined: 6/8/2008
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

As an s-type of the female persuasion, if he a takin' me to the depths of depravity at night, he'd better have his sweet ass in bed in the morning so I can worship it (rimming: yummmeh) & take advantage of morning wood. Morning cuddlesex is just continued aftercare.....
That's mah story, and Imma stickin' to it!

Mmm, a lady after my own heart. So whatcha doing in the morning?

Also, this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

You really have to start by understanding that I don't engage in any form of intimacy with someone I don't at least like and respect, and higher levels of intimacy are reserved for people I care about and cherish. Sex and BDSM is intimacy, and there is no such thing as inherently "bad" sex in a moral or Puritanical sense, not if it's between consenting adults who feel good about themselves and their sexuality. That includes "advanced" sexual practices like roleplaying, humiliation, piss play, rape play, resistance/takedown scenes, spanking, bondage, etc etc.

Kink can be a minefield of emotional triggers, some of them negative. That's why it's advanced; just like any other extreme sport, you should be physically, mentally and emotionally healthy and fit before you can engage in it safely. I do view any sexual desire that you have in yourself but are unable to joyously share with your cherished and respected partner as being a potentially unhealthy emotional trigger, and probably something you should either not do at all, or seek help and counseling to be better able to do in a healthy way that doesn't damage your self esteem or your relationship.

Quoted because LadyNTrainer said it all before I had a chance to.

_____________________________

Just some guy (profile)
Just a tiny bit evil
My kind of love song

(in reply to BurntKitty)

Post #: 23

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 11:54:36 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

He was right there 'in the depths of depravity' with me. If he can't respect me after then he doesn't respect himself, either, which makes it his problem, not mine!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 24

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 12:17:17 PM

Zevar

Posts: 801
Status: offline

quote:

Can you take a submissive/slave/bottom to the depths of depravity during the night, and still respect them in the morning... or do you have lines you would not consciously cross with someone you loved regardless of their orientation?

There are psychological boundaries that are crossed when engaging in the depths of depravity, undoubtledly. Once these psychological boundaries are crossed the internal mechanisms that serve toward maintaining a sense of dignity/self esteem, in the morning, become weakened as a repeated patterned of crossing them occurs.

For some they may willingly consent to and like relating psychologically in a manner that is indicative of depravity. There are some people who are quite capable of relating in ways that are not acceptable to others. What is right for one is not always right for another.

However depravity or debasing ones dignity in a sexual context is not acceptable from my perspective as it spurns an internal defense mechanism, that in the long term can serve to erode at ones self esteem, thus reducing them toward allow themselves to be treated in unthinkable ways.

Maintaining the dignity of the one I engage with sexually includes not only her body yet also her mind, heart, soul and psyche, i.e. inner-self. The price she would eventually have to pay in order to endure depravity in a sustained manner would not be anything that I would be willing to invest my efforts toward dismantling. Instead investing my efforts toward exchanging what we mutually enjoy is at all times the choice made.

Depravity is for some likened to a barbed wire that some do not choose to tread. Or rather a jagged edge that some do not enjoin with or engage with on a sustained manner, while some do without any repercussions whatsoever. The human mind entwined in conjunction with the sexual nature of each individual expresses in a myriad of ways, aye!

Take care!

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 25

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 1:44:02 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Can you take a submissive/slave/bottom to the depths of depravity during the night, and still respect them in the morning... or do you have lines you would not consciously cross with someone you loved regardless of their orientation?

Greetings tazzygirl,

It is my belief that all things that stem from Him are good and for my betterment. Therefore, the depravity that you speak of wouldn't compel Him to see me in a negative fashion. Since the response is in accordance with His wishes. In regard to boundaries and the like, it isn't a matter of what He will or will not do. But the understanding of how His actions will affect the union overall. Its preservation and expansion is a constant that remains in the forefront of His thoughts.

One of the reasons many submissives have challenges accepting the shadow side is the personal associations they carry within or the fear of rejection by the other party after the festivities have ended. However, I'm reminded to see these things from His perspective and when I find the two are not in sync I trust He will realign my thoughts and bring them under subjection. This much like other things are wonderful examples of reconditioning and calibration to His frequency.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 26

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 2:17:30 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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hi porcelean

i often admire your ability with the written word. i enjoy your posts.

i also notice many of the girls who have posted here are in relationships with their owners, what kind of relationship doesnt matter. but i had guessed most girls would answer in a positive fashion, and im glad they have done so.

It was more to the thinking of the dominants i was curious about. some have said extremely positive things... LP and her chip were certainly not a surprise to me. the love she holds for him is so obvious it makes me smile.

my question stems from a lingering doubt as a result of a past relationship where i encouraged him to be more open about some of his darker desires... and while they certainly turned him on in the moment, and i had no problems following his lead, it made for some awkward moments in the "light of day".

I was merely curious if this was just him or if this was among the dominants as a whole, and could it be that it depends on the relationship they have with the one they are steering?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 27

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 2:23:40 PM

Shadow-tiger

Posts: 1775
Joined: 6/8/2008
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

my question stems from a lingering doubt as a result of a past relationship where i encouraged him to be more open about some of his darker desires... and while they certainly turned him on in the moment, and i had no problems following his lead, it made for some awkward moments in the "light of day".

I was merely curious if this was just him or if this was among the dominants as a whole, and could it be that it depends on the relationship they have with the one they are steering?

I have quite a few of those so called darker desires. The kind I won't even talk about to most people, because I'm private like that. And some things are best saved for those that can handle it, it's a mind set thing.

Now if this guy had doubts once the light of day hit, then that was on him not you! That kind of doubt comes from not being sure of himself, or his desires. Been there, done that. Fact is if my girl is going to not only take me at that level, but enjoy it as well then I'm going to be rather proud of her.

To me, awkward moments are a big sign that there needs to be more communication.

_____________________________

Just some guy (profile)
Just a tiny bit evil
My kind of love song

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 28

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 2:48:57 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i often admire your ability with the written word. i enjoy your posts.

i also notice many of the girls who have posted here are in relationships with their owners, what kind of relationship doesnt matter. but i had guessed most girls would answer in a positive fashion, and im glad they have done so.

Greetings tazzygirl,

Thank you for the kind sentiments. I understood the premise of your post and will expound if you'd like. The feelings mentioned aren't uncommon, however, oftentimes the other party may remain silent or refuse to articulate his ambivalence. Perhaps he hasn't reconciled it in his mind and is still adjusting to his desires and the shadow as a whole. Keep in mind, we have societal and familial conditioning that may impact our opinions and behaviors towards sexuality. It can be a real internal struggle and dichotomy of sorts. Whereas the actions don't always mirror ones thoughts or desires. This often leads to persons having external relations that allow them to live out their fantasies without repercussions or shame with their partner.

What I've noticed in my own relations is their willingness to be forthcoming usually corresponds to my self expression and level of comfort in the subject matter. While I believe it is important to have authenticity in our engagement, I feel it's important that both parties are mindful of the unexpected results of their exploration and to remain patient and compassionate. Especially if the response is not what you'd hope for. I say this to illustrate that the realities of what have taken place may compel the other person to erect defense mechanisms that aren't intended to harm, but merely his way of dealing with the things he hasn't fully accepted about himself as of yet.

It is easy to look at the situation from a negative standpoint or allow ourselves to feel hurt or victimized. Which is why I included the comment about all things being good. This isn't to suggest that He will never err or do things that aren't in accordance for our betterment. But it does mean that when that takes place it isn't intentional nor is there conscious malice implied. We each have things that we find sexually appealing that may skim the lines of socially acceptable behavior. Our ability to divulge and engage without ramification is largely dependent on where we are prior to its inception. As such, it is my duty to support and encourage even when the outcome may leave me feeling uncertain, insecure, or possibly maligned. It's the ability to look beyond the obvious and peruse the root that will enable you to develop real empathy in your relationship.

Although your previous situation was unfortunate you have an opportunity to transcend the experience and the ability to view it in another guise. Doing so will allow you to expand your mind and look at things from both vantage points. While some might see this as unfortunate or believe the dominant should behave differently, I take a different stance. He's human and that humanity is precious in my mind. I believe His strength is made perfect in weakness. To assume that He will never have fears, doubts, or insecurities is unrealistic. When it occurs take the opportunity to provide the feminine complement that He needs. You have the capacity to redefine the situation in the future if you recognize the power you hold within your grasp. And that doesn't suggest force or anything masculine at all. But it's the understanding of what a woman can do for her Man if she's motivated to act on His behalf.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 29

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 2:55:42 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Oh i do not place any blame anywhere, and im glad others have not as well. This is an extremely personal issue, for all of us. Its my hope, in time, that he comes to understand his own desires, and will embrace them, though i have no doubt i will never know if the outcome.

i guess i worried more about my encouragement of this issue. in a sense, im questioning my own role and my responsibilities in such an act.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 30

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 4:11:01 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

Hi Tazzy,
An interesting question. Kudos to you for bringing it out into the open.

There are some people that know their worst sides and fear them... or alternatively respect them knowing they can't control them. They keep the lid tightly on it as much as possible because it is ugly (I mean, come on, we are talking about some pretty ugly, scary things despite the use of euphemisms). There are those people who are ashamed of the beast that they become - sometimes righly so. I mean, look at the people who want to actually hurt someone in a non-consensual way, people who want to lash out and express that raging beast. For some of them, even doing a little hanky spanky would connect to that crazy, uncontrollable side of them, and they could become "out of control" pretty readily. By saying "no" to anything remotely close to, related to the beast, they "control" it. For some people that actually works. Think AA here. There are countries where the AA motto is *not* the teetotalling that we see in the USA (I'll not speak for other places). Some AA programs teach moderation. It is the same here. Some people *can't* get their beast on. It is too dangerous for them or they are too lazy / frightened / worried that they will not be able to control it.

Despite that it may not be logical, they see the other person as part of the ugliness that they can't face and then project their feelings onto the partner. It happens all the time in life for all kinds of things.

I thnk what you are talking about may be some form of self fear. But that, dear tazzy, is SELF fear, not about the other person. Your question is right on the money. However, it's just that you are asking the choir if they enjoy church rather than asking the people that avoid crossing the threshold.

Best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 10/27/2010 4:26:14 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 4:52:17 PM

Twoshoes

Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
But don't fool yourself, there are plenty of people who would not respect you in the morning, just as in vanilla life where you have sex too soon, some may not consider you a good prospect.

If having a sexual encounter is a mutual decision requiring active participation, rather than a scenario where the only choice one makes is not declining, the idea of one party emerging superior becomes nonsensical.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 32

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 5:47:45 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
If having a sexual encounter is a mutual decision requiring active participation, rather than a scenario where the only choice one makes is not declining, the idea of one party emerging superior becomes nonsensical.

Looked at logically, certainly. But I know damn few people, including myself, who view things primarily from an analytical, logical perspective. Most of us are reactive instead and driven by subconscious emotions such as shame and guilt. And those people will look at the partners who joined them oh so willingly the previous night and find them disgusting.

Hell, look at your average high school where boys dream of "getting some" and then they tell all their friends that she is dirty, skanky whore who will do anyone. Is that logical? Hell no. Does it happen all the time? Unfortunately yes. The double standard is alive and well despite all attempts to crush it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Twoshoes)

Post #: 33

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/27/2010 6:21:07 PM

kallisto

Posts: 1185
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Oh i do not place any blame anywhere, and im glad others have not as well. This is an extremely personal issue, for all of us. Its my hope, in time, that he comes to understand his own desires, and will embrace them, though i have no doubt i will never know if the outcome.

i guess i worried more about my encouragement of this issue. in a sense, im questioning my own role and my responsibilities in such an act.

I went through this as well a few years after my husband/Dom died. Trying to get back into the relationship thing. He tried to tell me that he didn't look at me differently "in the morning", but yet he did. I thought that we simply needed the time and communication to work through the new relationship, what we wanted, what was needed, what was expected ... yet he could never seem to get past that I was what he wanted ... it took me a while to realize that I wasn't the issue in the relationship.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 1:19:59 AM

strangedesire

Posts: 360
Joined: 12/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

He was right there 'in the depths of depravity' with me. If he can't respect me after then he doesn't respect himself, either, which makes it his problem, not mine!

Exactly. There are people who can do things to another human being, and think that person is devalued because of it. These people are...wrong. I want to say "broken," but that isn't quite right. They are just horribly wrong about what makes a person worthy of respect.

I might be showing my "depraved" side by doing something to a sub, but unless I hold her to bizarrely different standards than I do myself, she is no more complicit by consenting to this depravity than I am in doing it.

_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 35

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 6:41:32 AM

tiggerspoohbear

Posts: 19141
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline

When I'm going to be with a Dom, and it's not going to be just play sessions, I expect to build trust, respect and honesty with him before anything else. I consider depravity in the bedroom and humiliation (to me dirty talk and response) to be perfectly acceptable.

I will not however accept degradation of any kind outside the bedroom. Being called a pig, a cow, a dog, a cunt does not sit well when I don't expect it to be included in his every day vocabulary to me. I know some are into it, whatever floats their boat, but it's not my kink nor will it ever be. I'm left with very hurt feelings and wondering why he can't control his temper, all the while wondering if I'm somehow to blame. And if he can't control himself, then how is he going to control me or expect to retain my respect and trust? Been there, done that, wore the t-shirt to shreds. Won't ever happen again, or so I hope.

The Dom who chooses me will be the type who is kind and a gentleman outside the bedroom. I'm by no means a pain slut, therefore not looking for a sadist. Wrong fit for both of us. I provide a Dom I'm with with all that he expects of me. I expect that same Dom to have the good sense not to go where I will be made to feel I'm to be blamed for something that isn't my fault. I'm not perfect by any means, and I know perfection is unatainable but I strive for perfection and want nothing but a great relationship where open communication is key and I'm allowed to express my feelings, not have to hold back or bottle things up until I can't take anymore.

ETA: I know I've somehow gone off topic, and for that I apologize to the OP, but felt the need to say so.

< Message edited by tiggerspoohbear -- 10/28/2010 6:44:55 AM >

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"RABBIT IS GOOD, RABBIT IS WISE".

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(in reply to strangedesire)

Post #: 36

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 11:07:36 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

You know, I've had this question asked of me a number of times -- and had it asked also in the aspect of "If you have multiple servants, can you still respect -me- as an individual, and not make me 'just one of the pool of servants'?". My answer is "Yes, because I respect -people-, as human beings, who are forthright about the commitments they make, and who are genuine about who they are." If I take you into the depths of depravity, and you follow willingly, I will certainly respect you, and I will do so whether you discover that you -enjoy- our shared depravity, or you find out that you can't walk down that road ever again... in either case, you'll have my respect.

In the same way, I completely respect those who are called to service because that is where they shine -inside-. While they may answer to my authority, they are certainly 'worthy', and definitely valued in my eyes, whether their best skills come from scrubbing/scouring or flower arranging, or playing music, or editing manuscripts. The nature of the skill does not determine whether the person who performs it is worthy of my respect.... only their honesty and integrity in presenting themselves, and their diligence in doing what they say they're going to do has any impact... in fact... even if they are unsuccessful in doing something that they said that they were going to do, but they -tried- in the way in which they'd agreed, I still respect the person, and the effort put forth.

I -do- have some limits, though. One of those limits is that I try to refrain from entering into a romantic relationship with those who serve me, at least to this point -- so there is always that little shift in the dynamic that is different, I think, for those who -are- in romantic relationships with the one to whom they yield, and those who aren't... I think, in some ways, it means that I have to be -more- diligent to let my servants know that they're cherished and respected for what they do, because I can't fall back on the romantic end of the relationship to carry that for me.

Hope this makes sense.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/28/2010 11:11:06 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to tiggerspoohbear)

Post #: 37

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 12:46:14 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Can you take a submissive/slave/bottom to the depths of depravity during the night, and still respect them in the morning

yes

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 38

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 7:27:24 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
If having a sexual encounter is a mutual decision requiring active participation, rather than a scenario where the only choice one makes is not declining, the idea of one party emerging superior becomes nonsensical.

Looked at logically, certainly. But I know damn few people, including myself, who view things primarily from an analytical, logical perspective. Most of us are reactive instead and driven by subconscious emotions such as shame and guilt. And those people will look at the partners who joined them oh so willingly the previous night and find them disgusting.

Hell, look at your average high school where boys dream of "getting some" and then they tell all their friends that she is dirty, skanky whore who will do anyone. Is that logical? Hell no. Does it happen all the time? Unfortunately yes. The double standard is alive and well despite all attempts to crush it.

I agree that the double standard is alive and well. But we as women need to stop allowing jerks to have the weightier opinions regarding our sexuality. We need to accept our responsibility but make them face theirs as well. We need to laugh at the guys who call us names to take away the hurtful power of words like 'slut'.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 39

RE: Respect in the morning - 10/28/2010 7:47:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Can you take a submissive/slave/bottom to the depths of depravity during the night, and still respect them in the morning...

Yes.... Yes I can......

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 40

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