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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/27/2010 8:31:07 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		I would debate your post, Patrick. But someone might think i was supporting your belief... or denying it.. depending on which side of the fense that person is sitting upon.

Or, in other words....

Some people just got too much shoved up their asses for me to respond.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/27/2010 8:35:58 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		To the OP:

No. It is based on optimism, and self-confidence.

What a dumbass question.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/27/2010 8:48:40 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

(Using Fast Reply)

Conservatives are conservative because that is what they believe in. Do some choose that belief out of fear? Sure! I'll be some do. Just as some liberals choose their beliefs out of fear.

I've met racist democrats and socially liberal republicans.

Each person's political belief is based on their own choices. The motivation of each individual's choice is going to be different from person to person.

Sure, there are sheeple everywhere - in every party but lumping every conservative into one basket is ridiculous. Calling them all racists is rude.

Well wishes,

Cav's ally




No one is lumping them into one package, but you have to admit it is slightly odd that the teabagger "take our country back" movement coincidentally started right after we elected a black President.

And I keep asking who we need to take the country back from.

I never realized someone took it.

I still haven't received an answer from any of our patriotic teabaggers.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/27/2010 9:32:09 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

you have to admit it is slightly odd that the teabagger "take our country back" movement coincidentally started right after we elected a black President.

You have to admit that even more odd is the way some people seem obsessed with the color of Obama's skin.

Even before Barack Obama was inaugurated as president on 20 January 2009 the talk boards of several websites frequented by conservative voters were already humming with angry conversations about the global economic meltdown. Why were the banks being bailed out, correspondents wanted to know, why were billions of their tax money being spent on government programmes, what would happen to their children saddled by public debt...

Somebody on Market Ticker suggested posting tea bags to their elected representatives in Congress as a form of protest...

The practice spread so much so that by the time that CNBC reporter Rick Santelli made his famous rant on 19 February 2009, he did so standing in front of Chicago traders who all had tea bags stuck to their computer screens and phone banks.

Two references:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/05/us-midterm-elections-2010-tea-party-movement
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/who-started-the-tea-party-movement_02162010

K.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/27/2010 11:30:35 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Such bullshit again.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

I am hardly calling all conservatives racist (although there are too many)
and there are too many liberal racists and black racists and Jewish racists, whats your point?

nor do at all mean to belittle real conservatism that seeks to slow the pace of change. 
slowing the pace of change is not what "real conservatism" seeks


I am talking about the bastard philosophy of modern American conservatism that is radical in it irresponsibility (the idea of a serious conservative supporting someone with Christine O'Donnell's record is ludicrous)
that depends on whether they are supporting her because of her record, or other reasons.


and seems to be based solely on fear and greed.  back to your original bullshit premise



After all, a true conservatism would have to possess a critique of the free-market system which has been the fundamental cause of family destruction and changing social moresthat can be laid at least equally at the feet of liberalism, and probably more so


(there are such critiques, but they are not a substantial part of the American conservative movement).



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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 3:57:47 AM   
Owner59


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Status: offline 		Yes.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 4:15:12 AM   
subrob1967


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Status: offline 		The only thing I fear is the sheer stupidity shown by those of the liberal persuasion. They totally lack any common sense.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 4:35:29 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		lol...Jewish Racists? Really hate those Black Racists that have been keeping the White Man down for so many years! and those of us liberal racists we just hate everyone!.....and all liberals are stupid.....ahhhh, almost forgot just how jaded some of you are.
No wonder the conservatives like Will are thought of as so fearful of everything, you come off as a paranoid hater of all things you don't take the time nor put forth the effort to understand.

Watch out Will....the Jewish, Liberal Racists are creeping up on you when you have your back turned! Next thing you know you'll be circumcised and be moving to Nancy Pelosi's congressional district....Oh, that is in San Francisco, better look out for those gay racists as well!...
You are pathetic but, highly entertaining!

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 5:43:49 AM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		That was funny.  Thanks.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 5:45:56 AM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		Please stop confusing racism and bigotry.  Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race (in that society).  Bigotry is a personal failing and can exist in anyone.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 12:07:46 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

Please stop confusing racism and bigotry.  Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race (in that society).  Bigotry is a personal failing and can exist in anyone.

Nice of you to define them, the way you see them.

However, just because you define them that way, doesn't mean that you are correct, just that you define them in such a way so as to support your own position and biases.

Just saying ...

Firm


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 12:24:17 PM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Nice of you to define them, the way you see them.

However, just because you define them that way, doesn't mean that you are correct, just that you define them in such a way so as to support your own position and biases.

Just saying ...

Firm



Firm the definitions of Bigotry, and Racism BOTH from dictionary.com :

big·ot·ry   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] –noun,plural-ries

1.  stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2.  the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.


rac·ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled[rey-siz-uhm]                                                     

1.  a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.  a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3.  hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Looks to me like Patrick got the gist of the two words correct.

Can we say "EPIC FAIL"


Seriously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 10/28/2010 12:25:50 PM >

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:05:09 PM   
PatrickG38


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Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		Wonderful article in the New York Times Arts Section on President Obama's political philosophy that should be illuminating to both sides. As someone significantly to the left of Obama, I do not take issue with his pragmatic progressive conservatism as I think it appropriate to a leader of the entire country and I am aware that my opinions lie outside the mainstream. It is particularly interesting because of how well it complemented the Daily Show interview last night. It is fascinating how the same man is considered so weak by the left and so strong by the right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/books/28klopp.html

It is so good that I will probably give it its own thread.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:06:48 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		That's mostly because he lacks the balls to commit himself to one side or the other, though. I really don't see how it can be interpreted as a good thing, myself.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:10:49 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		Read the article. It is really interesting.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:13:29 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Or a snow job. It's a puff piece for somebody's book, for God's sake. Is that what passes for political analysis in American journalism?

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:18:48 PM   
PatrickG38


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Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		No, it is a serious article by a serious person. You may not think it is a good philosophy and that is perfectly fine. I do recognize that aside from the Civil War progressive social change does not come overnight and that if Roosevelt has pushed to include domestic workers in Social Security, he would not have been successful in the getting the program though and allowing it to evolve into a less racist program. Did liberals really think there were sixty senate votes for single-payer?

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:23:01 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

lol...Jewish Racists? Really hate those Black Racists that have been keeping the White Man down for so many years! and those of us liberal racists we just hate everyone!.....and all liberals are stupid.....ahhhh, almost forgot just how jaded some of you are.
No wonder the conservatives like Will are thought of as so fearful of everything, you come off as a paranoid hater of all things you don't take the time nor put forth the effort to understand.

Watch out Will....the Jewish, Liberal Racists are creeping up on you when you have your back turned! Next thing you know you'll be circumcised and be moving to Nancy Pelosi's congressional district....Oh, that is in San Francisco, better look out for those gay racists as well!...
You are pathetic but, highly entertaining!

\
So you think there isnt a single Black, Jewish or Liberal racist in the country? You are pathetic if you think not.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:26:28 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

Please stop confusing racism and bigotry.  Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race (in that society).  Bigotry is a personal failing and can exist in anyone.


bullshit again. Any individual that acts on his bigotry to the detriment of another is racist. It doesnt have a fucking thing to do with the makeup of the society. you werent here for the most recent thread on affirmative action (and since you add nothing, no loss), and there wasnt a single person who could support a claim that AA isnt racist, despite the fact that it favors minorities in our society.

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Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:27:33 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

pragmatic progressive conservatism


ROFL.

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