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RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 7:12:56 AM

Tapestry

Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline

Wondering how one submits without giving the impression of being needy, or a "blackhole". As many of us are self-sufficient, independent, and successful people all by ourselves, it would be very easy to seem "un-submissive" or disrespectful. How do you define the balance - what makes the difference by one who seems needy and one who doesn't? And for the ones who don't appear to need you, does that seem to be lacking in proper submission and respect?

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Tapestry

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"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 41

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 7:21:23 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

This has been one of my favourite forum yet. Why? Because almost every single post resonated with me. First of all, I don't believe in failure I believe in learning experiences. Every human being on the planet makes mistakes, even the ones that don't like to admit it. This topic made me think of a friend of mine. She is a strong willed switchy woman. We became friends thru another website's chatroom and along with the friendship she developed an attraction to me. After many many hours of conversation she wanted to come visit me which I allowed. In retrospect perhaps it was a mistake, for several reasons. The first being my emotional attachment to another woman. Even though I have no idea if it will be a sucessful relationship I do not believe in keeping a spare on hand for "just in case". In love I am monogamous. I knew the girl was was attracted to me but had hoped that after spending time with me she would also see that as a relationship other than friendship we were highly incompatible. Some of the reasons for that aside from my emotional attachment to another are, she constantly does things that are self destructive. Which leads to a need to tell me in detail what she has done, tell me how worthless she is because of it, THEN want ME to fix her. Once or twice I could have handled but with her it is a constant cycle. Very very draining even for a friendship. Sometimes I just have to take a vacation from her. As much as I have tried to make her understand she needs to "fix" herself before she can sucessfully be in the type of relationship she feels she wants she continues her cycle of self destruction. To this day I am aware that if I crooked my finger she would be here as fast as her wheels could bring her 2500 miles. I don't say that out of any silly arrogance or ego. Nor to say that she had failed with me though she feels that somehow she is just "not good enough". The truth is just that I know I could not cope with her personality/behaviour well, and that because of my lack of patience with it I would eventually do or say something that would only hurt/damage her more. I don't want that and she does not need that. She is a beautiful woman and if I were only about ME, would have provided me with alot of immediate gratification. However, thats not what I want. Sooooooooo, the whole gist of this loooooooong rant, submissives do not think of it as failure but simply...not a good fit or, another life lesson learned. The only way it could possibly be a failure is if the same mistakes are constantly repeated and not at all learned from.

(in reply to Areflectionofyou)

Post #: 42

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 7:40:54 AM

TrainMeSir

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline

I feel the reason is that this is just life.....no matter what lifestyle you lead. Is it failure? Perhaps, but as one said earlier, it's also learning. In these days of the internet, too many expect instant everything, and that's a ridiculous expectation of a "relationship". Think about the word......relating, can only come from knowing, and we cannot know one another without TIME. Is someone failing you? No, you just learned they weren't the one(s) for you. As in any aspect of life, don't expect to not learn that lesson many times!

I have to agree wholeheartedly with darkslave, so many contact me expecting my instant submission. That is mine to give. That is what makes it worthwhile. But as is my nature, i was overwhelmed at first trying to be polite and respond to everyone. For this attitude, i like something i read here, my apologies for not remembering who said it.......i am submissive, but i am not necessarily YOUR submissive. Submitting means my giving.

I also agree with LuckyAlbatross, in that the very nature of us wanting so to please can cause us to be very self-critical. And so guidance we seek. One i had spoken with got mad at me, no longer talks to me for that reason. That's his option, as it is all of ours. But that response only re-enforced my self doubt.

Luckily, i've met one that does not. He makes me feel worthy, because we talk....anything and everything. He makes me so comfortable in being me, good and bad. Regardless of your position in the D/s, both are human and both must be happy in order to please the other.

Anyway, this is just how i see it.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 43

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 8:49:33 AM

Reasonable

Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

It's all in seeking balance. You need to learn how much attention your dom both needs and desires to give. When the dom needs space,grant it gracefully-avoiding pouting and sniveling.

If you have a question,ask it once-not 20 times if there is no answer-no one likes a nag.

(in reply to Tapestry)

Post #: 44

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 1:00:15 PM

MsRachelxxx

Posts: 31
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

I soo agree with Darkraven6 and mysecret40, those have been my experiences too. Not to sound bias, but i have found that Masters much more than Mistress's want you to become theirs with little contact and not to speak to anyone else, and also to start addressing you as slave, slut/slave etc and as both pointed out have needed to be reminded that being a submissive does not mean being inferior any more than being a dominant means being superior and that any Master or Mistress that wants me will need to earn my respect, by showing me respect, honesty, and love as well as dominance. subs/slaves should not be passive and just give herself or himself to anyone just because they label themselves as a Master or Mistress.

< Message edited by MsRachelxxx -- 4/29/2006 1:01:47 PM >

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 45

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 1:12:26 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear openmindedslave, Ladies and Gentlemen;

As to the sissy situation, being married would be hard for me to accept. I don't want to be sharing someone. I also find such married sorts riding the fence, divided so to me, cheats us both.

In cases where the wife and submissive both are involving me, it is a open and clear dialog. But, again--I would feel I would enable a person's cheating if there was no involvment of the spouse.

As for my personal tastes, I wish single men. The reason being, I want them--not their girlfriends, wives or other baggage. I want to feel the liberty of loving them fully and knowing I'm the only one filling the vessel. It is my desire to create a 'family' per se. In addition, I rather have one wonderful slave than several so-so slaves.

Respectfully submitted,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 46

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 1:55:37 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

This has been one of my favourite forum yet. Why? Because almost every single post resonated with me. First of all, I don't believe in failure I believe in learning experiences. Every human being on the planet makes mistakes, even the ones that don't like to admit it. This topic made me think of a friend of mine. She is a strong willed switchy woman. We became friends thru another website's chatroom and along with the friendship she developed an attraction to me. After many many hours of conversation she wanted to come visit me which I allowed. In retrospect perhaps it was a mistake, for several reasons. The first being my emotional attachment to another woman. Even though I have no idea if it will be a sucessful relationship I do not believe in keeping a spare on hand for "just in case". In love I am monogamous. I knew the girl was was attracted to me but had hoped that after spending time with me she would also see that as a relationship other than friendship we were highly incompatible. Some of the reasons for that aside from my emotional attachment to another are, she constantly does things that are self destructive. Which leads to a need to tell me in detail what she has done, tell me how worthless she is because of it, THEN want ME to fix her. Once or twice I could have handled but with her it is a constant cycle. Very very draining even for a friendship. Sometimes I just have to take a vacation from her. As much as I have tried to make her understand she needs to "fix" herself before she can sucessfully be in the type of relationship she feels she wants she continues her cycle of self destruction. To this day I am aware that if I crooked my finger she would be here as fast as her wheels could bring her 2500 miles. I don't say that out of any silly arrogance or ego. Nor to say that she had failed with me though she feels that somehow she is just "not good enough". The truth is just that I know I could not cope with her personality/behaviour well, and that because of my lack of patience with it I would eventually do or say something that would only hurt/damage her more. I don't want that and she does not need that. She is a beautiful woman and if I were only about ME, would have provided me with alot of immediate gratification. However, thats not what I want. Sooooooooo, the whole gist of this loooooooong rant, submissives do not think of it as failure but simply...not a good fit or, another life lesson learned. The only way it could possibly be a failure is if the same mistakes are constantly repeated and not at all learned from.

Very well said, Tigresse, and I salute you for your character. A lot of people would indeed used her for instant gratification.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 47

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 2:04:52 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Interesting. Subs "whine" about things, but dominants "endure" them. Very interesting.

Dammit, I HAVE to stop reading boards when I'm drinking coffee...besides when I 'played' whine awhile ago I had my shit jumped by Celeste...and was told Doms were NO good at it...

Anyway back to enduring...

C

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"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to zebra)

Post #: 48

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 2:24:16 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

What exactly are "subs" failing?

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Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 49

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 2:43:24 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25
Yes, there are many subs with a childlike mentality, but it is encouraged by many doms. Personally, my ex dom encouraged me to lean on him for just about everything. I underwent a meltdown (of sorts) one day and he complained. I pointed out to him that it is very confusing to be told to bring all my problems to him only for him to tell me not to bother him. Of course, this needs to be balanced. I'm not a particularly needy person. I was just having a bad day. He agreed, apologized and we went on with our lives.

I think that there is a difference...at least in my mind...between wanting my sub to lean on me and bring their problems to me and comstantly depending on me for making sure that they take care of every minute detail of their day. More than once I called my boy just checking on him only to be greeted with a tyraid of how someone else got the better sale or raise or whatever. I would listen for a while only to ask...honey did you eat today? He was hypoglycemic and prone to immature rages when his sugar was low. When he said no I would tell him that he needed to quit worrying about what other people had and needed to eat. I would actually have to call back and check what he ate because he would go get chips out of the vending machine and believe this was following instructions. (He would make me mixed green salad, grilled chicken & veggie to take for my lunch).
I think sometimes subs don't realize that bring me your problems and expect me to tend to every detail, rant and bump in the road of life are very different. Even Dom/mes have times where they just don't want to hear it...whatever "it" might be. That whole timing is everything deal.

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 50

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 3:52:37 PM

mantis65

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

I am in the perfectionist category. As far as child like attitude goes it’s an attribute of creative people and I won’t apologize for it. It does not mean a co dependent person. Maybe it’s the Dommes responsibility to lay out the rules.
When my dog craps on a neighbor’s lawn whose responsible me or the dog?

Then again I am more of a loner type I don’t need much supervision if its layed out for me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 51

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 4:00:50 PM

faithNZ

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

Personally, I'm not sure if I've failed so much as learnt to read the profiles carefully before I even think about contacting anyone. I'm an extremely picky person and as such have had to break off a potential relationship - no point in getting involved with someone when we are looking for completely different things or via different methods.

"Experience is a wonderful thing - it allows you to recognise your mistakes when you make them again" - radio ad for a local pub.

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(in reply to mantis65)

Post #: 52

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 6:50:49 PM

slaveladyj

Posts: 161
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

I think too many people expect to find the answers to life on the internet. Sure, it's a good place to meet people with similar interest, and even to make friends. But the internet isn't real, the people here aren't real. We're made up names, with fantasies lives. It's cyber, not real life. To find someone you can really make a life with, you must go outside the cyber realm. I'm not saying you can't make friends, and good friends at that. But don't expect too much from it.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 53

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 6:59:59 PM

openmindedslave

Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

speaking of the internet...really how many people who really see themselves as subs truelly venture out from behind the key board to find out ? So many can try to live they pretend life here and never actually experience the touvh or the sound of a true doms voice as she overwelms your senses... Yes internet is a start , but somehow you must move out of its shadows and come toward the light?? And if you must stay in the shadows , don't pretend and hurt those who trully are prepared to serve and want to be served..

(in reply to slaveladyj)

Post #: 54

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 7:13:56 PM

interested1956

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/6/2005
Status: offline

TO THOSE ON HERE WHO ALWAYS WANT TO BLAME THE SUB FOR HER/HIS FAILURE, ONE SHOULD ALSO LOOK TOWARDS HIMSELF /HERSELF'S FAILURE TO THEIR SUB. FAILURE IS MOST OFTEN BROUGHT OUT DUE TO LACK OF GUIDENCE AND DIRECTION. THERE IS MORE TO DOMINATING THAN BENDING YOUR SUB/SLAVE OVER YOUR KNEE,OR HAVE THEM PAITENTLY WAITING AT YOUR FEET, "CONTROL THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS ,AND THIER BODIES WILL SURELY FOLLOW THEIR HEADS. IF YOU WISH TO MASTER SOMETHING THEN START BY GETTING INTO THEIR HEADS,THEN THEIR HEARTS. CONTROLL THIER HEAD AND HEART, THEN YOU HAVE WANTON CONTROL OF THE WHOLE PERSON.

JACOB JAMES

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 55

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/29/2006 7:23:44 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: interested1956

TO THOSE ON HERE WHO ALWAYS WANT TO BLAME THE SUB FOR HER/HIS FAILURE, ONE SHOULD ALSO LOOK TOWARDS HIMSELF /HERSELF'S FAILURE TO THEIR SUB. FAILURE IS MOST OFTEN BROUGHT OUT DUE TO LACK OF GUIDENCE AND DIRECTION. THERE IS MORE TO DOMINATING THAN BENDING YOUR SUB/SLAVE OVER YOUR KNEE,OR HAVE THEM PAITENTLY WAITING AT YOUR FEET, "CONTROL THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS ,AND THIER BODIES WILL SURELY FOLLOW THEIR HEADS. IF YOU WISH TO MASTER SOMETHING THEN START BY GETTING INTO THEIR HEADS,THEN THEIR HEARTS. CONTROLL THIER HEAD AND HEART, THEN YOU HAVE WANTON CONTROL OF THE WHOLE PERSON.

JACOB JAMES

I blame the all caps people. It's a matter of principle.

Yours,

benji

Edited to add: I have no idea who I'm blaming for what or why, even. I have not read a single post in this thread, not even the one I quoted. Just a random bit of stupidity dragged in by the dog.

< Message edited by gooddogbenji -- 4/29/2006 7:24:55 PM >

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Post #: 56

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/30/2006 2:59:02 PM

Areflectionofyou

Posts: 258
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline

Great response ...just like i stated Sir...it goes both ways. You want a sub/slave you take her heart and mind and you will have it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: interested1956

TO THOSE ON HERE WHO ALWAYS WANT TO BLAME THE SUB FOR HER/HIS FAILURE, ONE SHOULD ALSO LOOK TOWARDS HIMSELF /HERSELF'S FAILURE TO THEIR SUB. FAILURE IS MOST OFTEN BROUGHT OUT DUE TO LACK OF GUIDENCE AND DIRECTION. THERE IS MORE TO DOMINATING THAN BENDING YOUR SUB/SLAVE OVER YOUR KNEE,OR HAVE THEM PAITENTLY WAITING AT YOUR FEET, "CONTROL THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS ,AND THIER BODIES WILL SURELY FOLLOW THEIR HEADS. IF YOU WISH TO MASTER SOMETHING THEN START BY GETTING INTO THEIR HEADS,THEN THEIR HEARTS. CONTROLL THIER HEAD AND HEART, THEN YOU HAVE WANTON CONTROL OF THE WHOLE PERSON.

JACOB JAMES

(in reply to interested1956)

Post #: 57

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 4/30/2006 5:21:19 PM

ladychatterley

Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: openmindedslave
speaking of the internet...really how many people who really see themselves as subs truelly venture out from behind the key board to find out ? So many can try to live they pretend life here and never actually experience the touvh or the sound of a true doms voice as she overwelms your senses... Yes internet is a start , but somehow you must move out of its shadows and come toward the light?? And if you must stay in the shadows , don't pretend and hurt those who trully are prepared to serve and want to be served..

This isn't just subs. I pretty much have a "coffee ultimatium" which means after 10 to 20 e-mails, I want to meet for coffee or I can't be bothered anymore and I would say more than half of all Doms disappear when the coffee issue comes out. Now maybe it is me not being submissive enough, but I don't think so. I drop hints at first, then say something like "I'd really be more comfortable if we met in real life" and what have you. I have no idea what percentage, but I would be money that a lot of the people on the boards are married or scared or something.

In MY Opinion, people should avoid thinking anything here is real until you meet in real life, and you should never, ever assume it is your fault and not the marriage of the person pretending to be single.

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 58

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 5/2/2006 4:14:55 AM

openmindedslave

Posts: 470
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

The internet lets others dable here with out the personal contact.. With out leaving your chair , you exhibit power over another, ,including fullfilling a fantasy, getting tribute, creating moments of friendship or just creating hours of humilation on another without ever meeting. To some here on line , that is all they want, whether their a dom or sub. Nothing to give away who they are.No one who will ever give out their secret life to the neighbors around them. On here you can be that 21 year old tight ass bitch who works as a stripper at night and a dom in her spear time. And every sub can be a hunk of a slave with fabio hair and a porn size penis for hours of play...

the catch is some on here want to meet and don't want pretend play . Yet many do want to live in the imaginary world that lets them be the person they can never be. When the two connect, someone is going to be hurt or at least disappointed.

(in reply to ladychatterley)

Post #: 59

RE: Okay why do subs fail so often? - 5/2/2006 1:36:15 PM

gentlethistle

Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline

Sometimes I feel as though my whole life has been a series of failures. Probably I've made no more mistakes than most other people...and they choose to regard them as 'learning experiences' along the way, or assume that the world has conspired against them.

I know, logically, that I have simply made choices and sometimes those choices haven't 'worked out' or situations have changed and the choice made has ceased to be appropriate...but it always feels more natural to simply assume that any resulting failure is 'my fault'.

It's also very tempting to try turning to someone else to 'fix' my failures, to hand the problem over to someone else to sort out. But, realistically, I don't think that I should expect that of anyone else. I still retain the illusion that I ought to be capable of coping with my own life.

As to the 'why?' of failure. I haven't a clue...perhaps it was a mistake to even try to answer the question...can't help feeling that I've failed on this one too...

Laura

(in reply to openmindedslave)

Post #: 60

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