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Courtesy... - 10/27/2010 11:20:50 PM   
BurntKitty


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...is it just for vanilla folks?  I just got into a ~ahem~ "lively" discussion regarding courtesy vs obedience.

I was told obedience equals submission, whereas courtesy was vanilla.  Srsly.  A wtf moment.
As far as I'm concerned (and ymmv) obedience is doing as you're told (but I am an adult and actually know how to act in a polite manner and can have dinner ready, and not buy shoes every week.)  If my partner had a preference for Irish spring soap, I'd make sure we had it stocked up.  If he insisted on fajitas on Friday, they'd be sizzling when he came home. 
My point of contention came up when he couldn't name a single instance where an adult would be "disobedient".  Don't get the wrong notion about deliberately misbehaving for attention.  I adore pain play, am a submissive masochist and expect pain play as foreplay.  I already explained this to him.  I lurve impact play....  I adored being my ex's "portable urinal".  Submission is different to all of us. 

Courtesy is polite manners (please, thank you, you're welcome, etc) holding a door for the next person- regardless of age, gender, orientation, which end of the whip you prefer, or even ability, knowing if your guests have allergies, special dietary needs, and so on.

Sometimes ya gotta go wiff da flow....  And that goes for each end of the S/slash, or L/lash!!

[/rant]

Le sigh.  I feel much better now.







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RE: Courtesy... - 10/27/2010 11:29:49 PM   
Shadow-tiger


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It's pretty sad that some people need to be told what courtesy is because they don't understand the concept. Funny thing is, all that stuff that applies in so called vanilla relationships? Well gosh, all the basics tend to appy in a kinky relationship too! The exceptions being when folks involved specifically decide to do things differently.

If I can't find it in myself to be courteous and respectful towards my girl then there's a big problem. And appreciation of courtesy is another thing that's big to me. Is it really that difficult to be courteous, to be appreciative? For some people it really is.


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/27/2010 11:50:26 PM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

If he insisted on fajitas on Friday, they'd be sizzling when he came home.


I so insist. Fajitas are my favorite food, if done right.




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RE: Courtesy... - 10/27/2010 11:53:49 PM   
DMFParadox


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As for the rest, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. I mean, I get that you feel there's a difference between courtesy and submission, and that... he doesn't? Or that he just used examples of discourtesy instead of disobedience when compelled to explain his definition? Or something like that? It gets murky for me at that point.

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/27/2010 11:59:53 PM   
Twoshoes


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But can you make it look this perfect? No? Well, then step aside woman—please. It's not a matter of courtesy or obedience. It's about finesse!


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 12:39:50 AM   
RavenMuse


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It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!"

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 12:43:19 AM   
WolfyMontgomery


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I've actually always found it funny when there are people out there who consider submission to be an act of courtesy by someone who identifies as such, and that courtesy is not an applicable action towards subs. It's like the definitions of courtesy have been re-written for kink in some places (mainly in chat rooms that I tend to not frequent anymore unless Master wants a good laugh...).

These things:
quote:

Courtesy is polite manners (please, thank you, you're welcome, etc) holding a door for the next person- regardless of age, gender, orientation, which end of the whip you prefer, or even ability, knowing if your guests have allergies, special dietary needs, and so on.
Don't apply to subs in those sorts of places, obviously.

In a lot of places on the online world (and I'm not just talking about roleplaying rooms, also sometimes debate/discussion chat rooms too), to submit IS being courteous, and if you're not submitting then you're obviously not a very nice person in general. And in those places, for a Dom to be courteous is considered "weak" and very "sub-like" - and YES, I really have had debates about this - and it is why Master sometimes makes me go to those rooms sometimes still, because he likes to laugh at them when they try to order me to move out of his house because he's not training me to be a "proper" submissive. Bah. Though I tend to find it pretty funny too... so I don't complain - especially when I get extra kisses afterwords.
And to be sure there's no miscommunication about this - I do my best to always be polite and courteous to everybody, I just call them by their screen names rather than "Sir" or "Miss" because I feel it helps discussions flow better and since I already know what they want to be called, why not? Unless they own me (and these are Master's words) I am on equal standing with them until he says otherwise. But apparently I am a very rude disrespectful person because of this, and Master's encouraging my bad behavior! Oh no! ;P

Edited to add the bottom part, because I was a 'tard who hit the OK button instead of the Preview button like I was aiming for.


< Message edited by WolfyMontgomery -- 10/28/2010 12:59:03 AM >


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 12:52:41 AM   
SailingBum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!"



ehhh depends on my mood both work

BadOne

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:01:05 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!"



ehhh depends on my mood both work

BadOne


Same here but what I was referring to was the girls who seem to think only the later of the two is an order.... if she is serving Me then all she should need is to know what I want... I shouldn't need to always use either.


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:12:19 AM   
myotherself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!"


I'm with RavenMuse on this one. I work with 'troubled teens' and although I'm ALWAYS the one in charge, the vast majority of the time I will give "orders" disguised as "requests". I'll say "can you take your coat off please?" followed by "thanks" when it's done - works much better than "coat off NOW!". This to me is normal polite behaviour which I expect to see, and receive, when out in the world. In time, I expect my students to emulate my attitude and give themselves a better chance of success when they're dealing with people who don't have to put up with them.

I'm submissive in relationships, and unless I've done something to annoy my dominant, I would expect to hear "coffee please" rather than "coffee bitch". The former will make me really want to please him, the latter will make me think he's been reading his "I iz a Dom, hear me GRUNT!" manual a bit too closely...

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:17:00 AM   
WolfyMontgomery


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Heeeehehe maybe all those D-types who don't say "please" shoulda been taught by you ;)


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:20:04 AM   
GreedyTop


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I would always say please and thank you, bunnykins! ;)

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:22:19 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

It bugs Me when I find some girl who can't deal with courtesy... who fails to see that "Fancy making a coffee sweetie" is not Me giving her a choice, its Me being pleasant rather than "Coffee! Now bitch!"


Either way I would tell you unless you were my owner to get up off your own ass and get yourself a cup, and while your at it can i get some tea.

I tend to see people who make "polite requests" disguised as orders when they are anyone other then my partner as people who get the same amount of disrespect in return.


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:24:43 AM   
myotherself


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lol - it can take years to get a teenager to automatically say "please" and "thank you" - I don't think I have the patience to train adults too!

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:27:57 AM   
RavenMuse


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If I where to make a request of you it would be a request, with My girl I have authority... that is the context of this discussion and if you responded to My request with that kind of crap you'd get an equally hostile response along the lines of "Kiss My ass and fuck off"

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:43:20 AM   
SpiritedRadiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

If I where to make a request of you it would be a request, with My girl I have authority... that is the context of this discussion and if you responded to My request with that kind of crap you'd get an equally hostile response along the lines of "Kiss My ass and fuck off"


Im sorry I took it as you would do this with someone you knew was submissive, not someone who was your submissive. As thats what I gathered from the OP.


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 1:48:21 AM   
RavenMuse


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No problems then, We simply fell foul of the limitations of the written word at conveying meaning without the other clues and aids to communicating We are used to when folks are face to face. No biggy, We just read the OP slightly differently :)

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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 2:03:28 AM   
ViborgHerre


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Turn the magazine to be in a readable manner?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

But can you make it look this perfect? No? Well, then step aside woman—please. It's not a matter of courtesy or obedience. It's about finesse!




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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 2:07:23 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ViborgHerre

Turn the magazine to be in a readable manner?



It is.. for the one eating strawberries :P


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RE: Courtesy... - 10/28/2010 2:16:09 AM   
myotherself


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gotta love a practical man!

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