RE: What you DIDN'T vote for...

RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (Full Version)

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TreasureKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 10:54:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery First, you've attributed several thoughts to me erroneously. Don't do that. I'll say it if I think so. Second, you've only repeated the problem I posted about earlier--your partial chip-at-it approach is not a solution, but instead a perpetuation of the same problem, one that's been repeated for thirty years now. What you have here is an expression of your thoughts and attitudes. OK. But it's not a solution. And it never will be. Simple reality, as explained earlier. [Incidentally, the "spoiled child," if you must use that, is the voters, not the government. THEY are the ones perpetuating this. Unless, like truck, you believe in magic.] Not sure where you think I attributed thoughts to you, other than the quotes of yours. But yes, these are my thoughts and I did say earlier that I didn't disagree with your position that there is a problem. I'm also not sure where you got the idea that I presented any "chip-at-it" solution... whatever that is. If by that you mean the idea that we cut the Government's income by reducing taxes so that they are forced to make necessary cuts, that was more wishful thinking than a solution. As I implied, it probably wouldn't work anyway. Politicians, of any bent, just aren't honorable enough. Unfortunately, the reality that you presented is just as much wishful thinking. If you want to extend the spoiled metaphor to encompass the voters, that works, too. At least for the majority of them.

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 10:57:19 AM)
quote: it probably wouldn't work anyway And we're finally home again. Indeed. It won't work. Responsible fiscal management means addressing it, as explained before, not a few slogans.

TreasureKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:00:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: it probably wouldn't work anyway And we're finally home again. Indeed. It won't work. Responsible fiscal management means addressing it, as explained before, not a few slogans. Hence the so-called Republican mandate that got this started. At least they're talking about it now.

popeye1250 -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:12:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Everyone in here has to live on a budget. Why should cities, towns, states or the feds be any differant? Thats simple Pops,and I know this might be tough for you to wrap your head around....but the feds,states,cities and towns at times need to build,establish and create things,infrastructure and programs that have a shelf life and benifits that stretch beyond the next paycheck. So at times the cost of these things will in large part be borne by the next generation.....which in turn will build,cunstruct or create things or infrastucture that will benifit suceeding generations. Government is not like running your household....and it is simplistic to the nth dehree to suggest that it should be done so as if it is. Mike, I'll say this s-l-o-wl-y, that's what the Municipal Bond Market is for. You can float bonds for major infrastructure projects and still stay within your budget. In other words, BORROW AND SPEND. Pass the burden on to the next generations. That's the exact same brilliant financing strategy that the Repubs used to fuck the country in the first place. [sm=gaah.gif] Hippie, say you went to the dealer's to buy,.....oh I don't know,....a new VW Bus with all the bells and whistles and it comes out to $27,000 you'd pay cash for it? Of course not you'd buy it on credit. It's the same when a city or state needs to build a new bridge for $50 million, they take on debt. They figure out what the interest, principle, and any other expenses are going to be and calculate it into their budget. Every year they pay out interest to the bondholders and pay down the principle say for 25 to 50 years. They figure out how many "mils" it will be on everyone's tax bill for the following year. And do they still make VW Busses? Maybe in Europe? "Get a free Bong when you buy a VW Bus!"

slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:19:57 AM)
Popeye,I was wondering something....and I thought maybe,perchance...possibly you could help....is it against TOS to tell another poster that he is an asshole...and hopelessly full of shit? Just wondering?

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:21:11 AM)
quote: Hence the so-called Republican mandate that got this started. At least they're talking about it now. Not at all. It's the same chant they've been singing for 30 years.

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:24:47 AM)
quote: Hippie, say you went to the dealer's to buy,.....oh I don't know,....a new VW Bus with all the bells and whistles and it comes out to $27,000 you'd pay cash for it? Of course not you'd buy it on credit. It's the same when a city or state needs to build a new bridge for $50 million, they take on debt. Well first that entirely depends on the cost and availability of the credit. If the interest rate were...oh, I don't know....18%, you'd be stupid to finance it--pay cash. This conversation started over borrow and spend. As you've said, this is simply taking on more debt--it's not an exception to budgeting 101. It costs money--especially when credit is tight and credit ratings are crappy.

Real0ne -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:35:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Please explain that to Republicans, who don't seem to get it. Until leaders and citizens face up to reality, that if fiscal balance is the goal, it will take more tax dollars, spending cuts, fewer services, eliminating continual dependence on borrowing, aggressive debt servicing, and the realization that all of this will slow the economy substantially for the years it takes to achieve it. Instead, votes are bought with pieces and half-truths, on all sides, with policies that continually worsen the problem instead. of course you got a small problem and that is the money is debt notes. That being the case if there is no debt there is no money. That said pay the debt and no money will exist.

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:52:39 AM)
A silly point. Financial obligations are ongoing, continually creating new debt requiring payment. Salaries, for instance. Rent. Basic stuff.

popeye1250 -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 11:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Popeye,I was wondering something....and I thought maybe,perchance...possibly you could help....is it against TOS to tell another poster that he is an asshole...and hopelessly full of shit? Just wondering? Mike, what a coincidence, I was wondering that myself!

slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:06:33 PM)
Well than...I guess niether of us has need to send the other a Christmas card[:)]

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:08:09 PM)
And here's hoping that's the end of it. It gets tiresome thread after thread after thread. We get it, guys.

slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:16:56 PM)
Well as long as you get it Tim.....though most of the stuff here is the same old same old ,day after day...thread after thread,so I'm not really sure what your beef is. Take away the conflict.......and what you are left with is realone and hunky exchanging conspiricy theories [:)]

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:19:00 PM)
It's not the conflict--as long as it's about something.

slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:20:38 PM)
Okie dokie...I will,from here on out,try to keep my petty squables on a higher plane .....will that work for you[:D]

FirmhandKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:26:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Indeed. It won't work. Responsible fiscal management means addressing it, as explained before, not a few slogans. Ok, I'm back. MM, I guess my question to you and anyone else on this issue is: does anyone expect just changing the players in the game to actually make a long term difference? If not, then what options are there? Firm

Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 12:44:29 PM)
Exactly. Which is why the "My candidate was elected on a mandate to fix this" is nonsense.

slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 1:07:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Indeed. It won't work. Responsible fiscal management means addressing it, as explained before, not a few slogans. Ok, I'm back. MM, I guess my question to you and anyone else on this issue is: does anyone expect just changing the players in the game to actually make a long term difference? If not, then what options are there? Firm Basically you just repudiated much of the tea party rhetoric.

FirmhandKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 1:21:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Basically you just repudiated much of the tea party rhetoric. No, just taking a longer term view. I think that this election can make a difference in the short run, but the basic dichotomy is that people want the government to provide services, but in general do not wish to pay for them. I think Obama was correct in his understanding that if he wished to forward "liberalism", he had to do so at the cost of electability. National Health Care will likely not be completely overturned, and perhaps not overturned at all. If it has a chance to build a voter constituency, then it will be like Medicare and other large social programs, and a "third rail" of politics. It's a conflict between "theory and principle" and "the personal". Regardless of understanding that - in theory - the cost and power of government is crushing some of the basic philosophical underpinning of freedom and responsibility that American was founded upon, it becomes difficult in the extreme to oppose anything where you can point to (and have to campaign against) anecdotal human interest stories where application of the general principal will hurt a specific person. Combine this fact with the bread and circus theory of government, and a massive, complex social and political system such as the US can't be changed due to a single election nor likely several elections. The complex and inherently unsound running of our society and our government will likely creep along, less and less able to met all the conflicting demands and expectations until it finally crashes, and allows a new system, and a new set of agreements to come into place. The interregnum will not be a pleasant time. Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 1:23:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Exactly. Which is why the "My candidate was elected on a mandate to fix this" is nonsense. Not necessarily in the short term. Read my above post to mike. Firm

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