RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 1:52:00 PM)

There you go once again repudiating a basic tenet of the tea party "express" .The "throw the bums" out impulse.Voters are fickle...and effective governing needs to take a longer view.Let's look at how a state like California is doing....here we have gonernment by popular decree...everything open to the whims and fancy of the electorate ie:referrendums....resulting in chaos and ineffectual governing.Policy can not be crafted by popular vote....not as long as those voting look solely to their own wants,needs and various special interests.
You are correct this upcoming congress will not be able to overturn the health care reforms recently passed....though they will kick up a shitstorm in trying to do so....thereby pandering to the shortsighted fears of their core constituency...the idea of being forced to pay for the health care of others.Why that is shortsighted is that we have been paying for the health care of others all along.....and overpaying in fact.Healthcare reform is now like a rock rolling downhill...soon,as you said to become another "third rail" in American politics.....and that is a good thing.
Now you go ahead and chew up everything I have said...I need to put some baby back ribs on the grill....and take the long view with them...cook'em slow and easy.
Be back in a few....lol.



FirmhandKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 2:32:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

There you go once again repudiating a basic tenet of the tea party "express" .The "throw the bums" out impulse.Voters are fickle...and effective governing needs to take a longer view.Let's look at how a state like California is doing....here we have gonernment by popular decree...everything open to the whims and fancy of the electorate ie:referrendums....resulting in chaos and ineffectual governing.Policy can not be crafted by popular vote....not as long as those voting look solely to their own wants,needs and various special interests.
You are correct this upcoming congress will not be able to overturn the health care reforms recently passed....though they will kick up a shitstorm in trying to do so....thereby pandering to the shortsighted fears of their core constituency...the idea of being forced to pay for the health care of others.Why that is shortsighted is that we have been paying for the health care of others all along.....and overpaying in fact.Healthcare reform is now like a rock rolling downhill...soon,as you said to become another "third rail" in American politics.....and that is a good thing.
Now you go ahead and chew up everything I have said...I need to put some baby back ribs on the grill....and take the long view with them...cook'em slow and easy.
Be back in a few....lol.

mike,

I'm not going to chew up everything you have said.  It's pretty good, as far as it goes.

It just doesn't go far enough.

The problem is that you are accusing "the other side" of being short sighted and fearful, but that accusation is no less valid for "your side" of the debate.

In the long run, "your side's" agenda is unsustainable, or at the least trades one group of problems for another.

So, assuming that "health care reform" stays in place, and many people get care who otherwise wouldn't.  Great!

But it comes at a cost.  You are shifting the burden from one group of people, to another group, and you are likely "spreading the misery", rather than eliminating it. And not only when it comes to health care, but at a larger societal cost.

It comes at the cost of reducing the freedoms and property rights within the society as a whole, for the benefit of a smaller portion of the society. This is the way that most democratic nations have been going on the last couple of centuries. It remains to be seen if that trade-off is sustainable to such a society as a whole.

TANSTAAFL, after all.

Firm



FirmhandKY -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 2:34:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

There you go once again repudiating a basic tenet of the tea party "express" .The "throw the bums" out impulse.Voters are fickle...and effective governing needs to take a longer view.Let's look at how a state like California is doing....here we have gonernment by popular decree...everything open to the whims and fancy of the electorate ie:referrendums....resulting in chaos and ineffectual governing.Policy can not be crafted by popular vote....not as long as those voting look solely to their own wants,needs and various special interests

And a good argument for the original founders' intent that we would be a representative republic, rather than a democracy.

Which meant the Senate appointed by the States, and the Electoral College to elect the President, for example.

Firm



slvemike4u -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/6/2010 2:39:49 PM)

You make an erroneous assumption when you conclude that I was limiting my criticism solely to "my side" .Lets not forget that the recent results were in part due to apathy and dissatisfaction from many on the left.Had all of the voters of 2008 showed up and voted the results might have been far different.
But the left was dissatisfied on a number of fronts,chiefly amongst them was the failure to get "single-payer"....okay it wasn't possible at this time....bu to many it was a failure of conviction on Obama's part...and indicated to many a case of same old same old...so instead of taking the long veiw they punished those they held responsible by staying home....the young voters were particularly guilty of this short sightedness.
No,the left by their inaction is as much responsible for Tuesdays results as anyone else.



Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/7/2010 9:34:45 AM)

Agreed.

Any party who feels they got a mandate Tuesday is rationalizing.

Voters want the economy fixed, especially the unemployment rate. Period.

Everything else is just random anger at incumbents--ALL incumbents, w/o regard to party.



Real0ne -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/7/2010 9:49:11 AM)


its mathematically impossible to fix the economy.

the best they can do is put a band aid on it and prepare for their next cycle.

chinese chairs where someone is always high and dry.

The only way to fix the economy is to completely re-state the monetary system.

and that aint gonna happen because there is no money in it for those who control it.





Musicmystery -> RE: What you DIDN'T vote for... (11/7/2010 11:39:54 AM)

Well, sparky, if it's not possible to lower the unemployment rate (in your world), then again, some have voted for something that's not gonna happen.

And so goes the pointless cycle, amid great partisan hue and cry.

Theater. That's what the next two years will bring. Theater.



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