I am not buying it

I am not buying it (Full Version)

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Charles6682 -> I am not buying it (11/4/2010 3:48:44 AM)
Okay,I have a question for conservative's.What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law?I will agree with the fact that I don't agree that America should be forced to buy health insurance or face a fine.If you want to repeal that part,go ahead.....otherwise,what else do you want to change.You want to go back to having sick people being denied health coverage?..... Just remember,Obama is still President and the Dem's do have a slim majority in the Senate... Don't expect any radical change's to the healthcare plan.... Again,just how much of this healthcare law are you Republican's looking to strip of this law you call "Obamacare"?All of it or some of it?

subrob1967 -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 4:11:40 AM)
I want the government to stay the fuck out of my private life period, no health care, no medicare, no social security...Stick to your 18 enumerated powers and quit trying to regulate my life.

truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:36:55 AM)
quote: What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law? Repeal it. Drive a wooden stake in its heart. Immerse it in holy water. Burn it to ashes. Shoot it in the head with a silver bullet.

Raiikun -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:37:01 AM)
Gotta agree with subrob there. I've said here before, I'd be glad to give up everything I'd put into SSI so far, if they'd just let me not have to put anymore into it.

Hillwilliam -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:41:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: What is you main goal you really have with new Healthcare law? Repeal it. Drive a wooden stake in its heart. Immerse it in holy water. Burn it to ashes. Shoot it in the head with a silver bullet. And replace it with?

truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:49:13 AM)
Start with portability and buying insurance across state lines. Add tort reform. Throw in some deregulation (are you aware that many states forbid insurance companies from paying more than a certain percentage (usually 60) of their gross out in claims?) I'm happy right there.

TheHeretic -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 6:44:35 AM)
You do understand that without the individual mandate, all those other wonderful goodies fall apart as well, right, Charles? That's where the money comes from.

maybemaybenot -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Start with portability and buying insurance across state lines. Add tort reform. Throw in some deregulation (are you aware that many states forbid insurance companies from paying more than a certain percentage (usually 60) of their gross out in claims?) I'm happy right there. This. Porability alone will significantly decrease healthcare costs. Competition has a funny way of decreasing the price of goods. mbmbn

hertz -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:36:18 PM)
Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:39:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance? You dont need insurance to receive treatment.

FirmhandKY -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance? Under the previous system, any child could get a government medical card, regardless of the parent's income, up to $40k or more a year (and double or triple that in some states) through a state-run, and federally funded program. Adults, if they were disabled, or below the poverty line, had a very similar program, but the income levels were lower. For the able-bodied adults, who made enough money, they had the choice of getting it from the company where they worked, or paying for it themselves, or going bare. Anyone could receive medical care at any government owned hospital. They might attempt to collect, but if you filed "penury" paperwork, they would write it off. Firm

hertz -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:52:08 PM)
If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie? Found a useful resource here.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 2:55:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie? Found a useful resource here. Yes, its just a lie or arguments about inconvenience, stigma, etc.

hertz -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 3:01:06 PM)
So this is what? quote: They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life.... In the first two days, more than 1,500 men, women and children received free treatments worth $503,000 (£304,000). Thirty dentists pulled 471 teeth; 320 people were given standard issue spectacles; 80 had mammograms; dozens more had acupuncture, or saw kidney specialists. By the time the makeshift medical centre leaves town on Tuesday, staff expect to have dispensed $2m worth of treatments to 10,000 patients... Although the Americans spend more on medicine than any nation on earth, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. Many of those who have jobs can't afford coverage, and even those with standard policies often find it doesn't cover commonplace procedures. California's unemployed – who rely on Medicaid – had their dental care axed last month... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html Propaganda?

FirmhandKY -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 3:06:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie? A lot of it has to do with the fact that often times the very people who can take advantage of some programs, don't. Like collecting taxes out of a paycheck, some people believe that if you make it mandatory, and take the "effort" out of applying and maintaining your paperwork for you, that is better. Firm

willbeurdaddy -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 3:10:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hertz So this is what? quote: They came in their thousands, queuing through the night to secure one of the coveted wristbands offering entry into a strange parallel universe where medical care is a free and basic right and not an expensive luxury. Some of these Americans had walked miles simply to have their blood pressure checked, some had slept in their cars in the hope of getting an eye-test or a mammogram, others had brought their children for immunisations that could end up saving their life.... In the first two days, more than 1,500 men, women and children received free treatments worth $503,000 (£304,000). Thirty dentists pulled 471 teeth; 320 people were given standard issue spectacles; 80 had mammograms; dozens more had acupuncture, or saw kidney specialists. By the time the makeshift medical centre leaves town on Tuesday, staff expect to have dispensed $2m worth of treatments to 10,000 patients... Although the Americans spend more on medicine than any nation on earth, there are an estimated 50 million with no health insurance at all. Many of those who have jobs can't afford coverage, and even those with standard policies often find it doesn't cover commonplace procedures. California's unemployed – who rely on Medicaid – had their dental care axed last month... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html Propaganda? Exactly

Malkinius -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 3:24:36 PM)
Greetings Charles.... The other big reason many conservatives and some other people do not like it is that they see it as the first major step to socialized, government run healthcare as it exists or existed in much of Europe and the former communist countries. The reason they don't want that is because it has been shown to not work as claimed and in most cases resulted in worse healthcare than exists in the US right now. This is why many countries have cut back what they were doing or as England has done, limit the amount they will spend on health care per year and decide who is worth treating more than superficially. For example, I have a friend in England who was on the waiting list to get on the waiting list for an appointment to see a dentist. No, I am not joking. I am repeating what he told me. If he ever got an appointment the care would be free. He had already been on the current waiting list for more than a year the last time I talked to him about it. Free care you wait years to get is not good care. The government bureaucrats deciding when they have spent enough money on you so you don't get any more care is not good care. Governments cutting back how much care they will allot their citizens based on tax income is not good care. Yes, I am in the no socialized/government run medicine camp for those reasons. It has nothing to do with my politics. It has everything to do with what works and what has proven to not work. No, I don't buy the arguments that the US can do the same thing better. I have heard a definition of insanity being doing exactly the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I don't believe the "We will do it right this time," argument. That trick has never worked. Be well.... Malkinius

Charles6682 -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 4:04:13 PM)
I don't exactly want a single payer system either.It does ration care and that's not good.I like to follow Canadian new's new's from time to time and it seem's the majority of Canadian's on the otherside of this debate.They want keep their healthcare system a public only system.They seem to frown upon private clinic's.I believe both side's of the debate are too extreme......An only sinle payer system dosen't work.... At the same time thoug,an all-for-profit system isn't exavtly the best answer either.Insurance companie's are in the buisness of making money,not helping people..... There must be some reasonable compromise.I am practical and realistic.It should be what work's best...... People should not be denied healthcare because of any prior health condtion's.That's immoral and wrong,period.There is no "window dressing" this issue and trying to make it seem like that's perfectly okay.

servantforuse -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 4:39:06 PM)
Repeal the entire law and start from scratch. Everyone keeps saying that there are 30 million Americans without insurance. Work on getting those people coverage, and leave the rest of it alone.

tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 4:49:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: hertz If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie? A lot of it has to do with the fact that often times the very people who can take advantage of some programs, don't. Like collecting taxes out of a paycheck, some people believe that if you make it mandatory, and take the "effort" out of applying and maintaining your paperwork for you, that is better. Firm You mean the programs that many complain are social programs and should be defunded as well?

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