RE: I am not buying it

RE: I am not buying it (Full Version)

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kiwisub12 -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 4:55:17 PM)
My late Sir worked his entire life and raised two kids through college. He didn't make enough per month to afford health insurance, he bought his meds from India through the internet (which is illegal - to protect pharmacy companies) at a quarter of the cost of buying them in the States. It would have cost him $500 a month to buy them legally, and was about $100 for three months from India- same meds, different names. Because he didn't have health insurance, when he started peeing blood, he ignored it - until he couldn't walk from the bathroom to the living room. When he finally agreed to go to the ER of the local university hospital, he had advanced bladder cancer, and inspite of chemo, died 18 months after being diagnosed. Part of not seeing a doctor earlier was fear of what they might find - but a significant part of not seeing someone was lack of cash and insurance. He died of an easily treatable and survivable cancer - because he a. couldn't afford to see a doctor and b. was afraid of what he would be told. If he hadn't had the excuse of not being able to afford care, i could maybe have gotten him to a doctor sooner - and he might still be here. Don't try to tell me that the uninsured and underinsured can get care - they can't - unless they are damn near dead. Thats why university hospitals are seeing sicker patients - people are waiting til they feel like death warmed over to see a doctor, and their prognosis's are terrible. If he lived somewhere like New Zealand , with socialised medicine, he could have seen his local GP, and for a reasonable fee, been treated. And as a tax payer, he would have helped pay for it - it wouldn't have been charity. Raise income taxes on everyone, and enroll everyone into government health care. None of this enrolling crap and allowing people to not buy into it - just do it up front and stop the angst. Then if people want to spend their money on private insurance, let them have at it, and decrease the number of people using the government service. Its not rocket science - everyone pays and everyone uses.

Lucylastic -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:33:12 PM)
There are many threads on this forum alone which show how bad getting appropriate healthcare can be for many many americans. Their reasons may be just as "selfish" as some shown here but they really just want to be well, or..not suffering because they cant afford it, not because it affects their damn wallets. People shouldnt be dying because they dont earn enough

tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 5:41:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: hertz Dumbass question from a European: What about the poor people who can't afford insurance? You dont need insurance to receive treatment. You are right. You need either insurance or money to receive treatment.

slvemike4u -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 6:18:21 PM)
No,no tazzy...a few stitches to close up a gash on ones forehead is,in willbur world,all the treatment the uninsured require.ER visits should cover all their ills.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 6:36:19 PM)
Excuse me? It's a lie that the poor can't get health insurance? It's not a lie that people barely scraping buy can't get or afford health care. Daddy makes minimum wage and that's it, He can't afford health care out of his own pocket, and because of pre existing mental health conditions most plans won't cover him since theres a rule on the books that allows health insurance providers to do that to you. and he can't afford to get it from his place of employment either. They want 600 dollars a month to give him insurance through work, that's more than he makes a month. He goes with out medication that's much needed for his depression, and with out dr visits or health care of any kind, because he can't afford the cost of pills for his depression, and with out a dr to prescribe them he couldn't get them anyway even if he could afford them. And trust me if you don't know already pills can cost any where from mere hundreds to thoughsands. I got an estimate telling me that with out my medical program paying for my pills, I'd be paying 4.000 EVERY MONTH for the pych medications I take. And he doesn't qualify for government aid or anything of the such, because even though he has mental health issues he's capable of working, if you can work you can't get programs like SSI or SSDI. Sure if it was an emergency he could go into the ER and be seen and they can try to bill him, but he wouldn't be able to afford those bills either. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Yes, its just a lie or arguments about inconvenience, stigma, etc.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: I am not buying it (11/4/2010 6:46:14 PM)
The idea that every one has to pay, it's mandatory able to or not isn't fair. I can't afford to pay my own health insurance, if the state didn't pay mine I'd be with out insurance, and Daddy can't afford mandatory pay for it insurance either, if he could he'd have health insurance and be on the meds he needs years ago. I'm sure that my parents wouldn't be able to afford some mandatory opt in payment. quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Raise income taxes on everyone, and enroll everyone into government health care. None of this enrolling crap and allowing people to not buy into it - just do it up front and stop the angst. Then if people want to spend their money on private insurance, let them have at it, and decrease the number of people using the government service. Its not rocket science - everyone pays and everyone uses.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 2:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom Excuse me? It's a lie that the poor can't get health insurance? Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either.

tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 4:30:55 AM)
well, come on wontbe... show us all your brilliant intelligence and explain just how you go about making sure 30 million people can receive healthcare without insurance AND money.

MrRodgers -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 6:00:20 AM)
I agree...I am not buying it either...you are. I don't have to buy any health insurance so in the great capitalist tradition...you pay for my emergency care. I'll go from emergency to emergency while you pay the $1, $2,000/mo for it along with everybody else.

MrRodgers -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 6:02:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom Excuse me? It's a lie that the poor can't get health insurance? Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either. Absolutely, we know you'll pay for it...somebody does. Thanx.

FirmhandKY -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 8:26:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: hertz If that's the case, why are so many people convinced that poor people in the US cannot get health care? Is it just a lie? A lot of it has to do with the fact that often times the very people who can take advantage of some programs, don't. Like collecting taxes out of a paycheck, some people believe that if you make it mandatory, and take the "effort" out of applying and maintaining your paperwork for you, that is better. You mean the programs that many complain are social programs and should be defunded as well? I'm not sure what you mean by this exactly, tazzy. One of the posters above gave the readers an exact, symmetrical example of just what I said in my above post. Just to be clear about my "position" on the entire health care debate: you won't find much from me arguing either way during the majority of the last few months. I was in a few threads early on, and gave some of my experiences with insurance companies and such. Basically, I hate 'em, and think the system needed some kind of reform, but from a very deep philosophical position do not think the government is/will be particularly "successful" at doing any better of a job. Firm

tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 8:29:21 AM)
I was referring to those who complained during the campaign system of the funding of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and the like. With each of them, there has been a call of socialism... and yet most who rely upon their funding, including those in those cute lil scooters running around the tea party rallies, cannot imagine living without them even while foaming at the mouth about how they are constitutionally illegal.

Real0ne -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 9:17:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 I want the government to stay the fuck out of my private life period, no health care, no medicare, no social security...Stick to your 18 enumerated powers and quit trying to regulate my life. it will never happen. first they moved from public law to private law for public uses. So when you use a so called public service you are attached to the private law and adhesion contracts that goes with it. This can be wrapped in trust law as well where you can be a beneficiary and have no say so to rebut the matter. The dollars you earned and saved in 2000 are only worth 50% what they were then, yet you are taxed on "profits" from your equity trades on the stock market much of what makes up for the inflation losses and they do not give you and allowance for the money you lost due to inflation. The OID was meant to do that but as soon as people figgered that out they stopped processing them. Bottom line this system is structured to suck you up in it and unless you are quite wealthy making the middle class poorer.

Real0ne -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 9:21:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I was referring to those who complained during the campaign system of the funding of Medicare, Medicaid, SS and the like. With each of them, there has been a call of socialism... and yet most who rely upon their funding, including those in those cute lil scooters running around the tea party rallies, cannot imagine living without them even while foaming at the mouth about how they are constitutionally illegal. thats right because the money has been so badly devaluated they realize that they cannot afford to live under the pressure of devaluation and high taxation and inflation. never used to be that way. In fact it was the norm for doctors to do house calls at very little if ANY extra charge. Now days you can read your own charts because the technology is so advance it prints it all out for you and I always read my charts and have caught doctors I would say at least 4 times so far completely misdiagnosing me!!!!! (and I made sure everyone in the place knew about it)

kdsub -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 9:34:56 AM)
What amazes me is both political parties agree there needs to be a change in our healthcare system. The fanatics here on cm that want government out of everything are politically naïve. I believe they mistake the average republicans desire for fiscal responsibility and a redirection in rectifying our economic situation for a desire and a mandate to repeal the healthcare reform. I do believe republicans as well as democrats and independents realize left on their own pharmaceuticals, insurers, medical supply companies and healthcare workers are not capable of self regulation and if left untouched will drive the cost of medical care far beyond reason and out of the reach of many middle class families. I believe the republicans and democrats alike have a choice. Work together and compromise if necessary to achieve healthcare reform that will satisfy their electorates….or continue with political obstructionism for two years in the hopes of political gain at the expense of the American public. One of these days the political parties will realize the reason for the wild swings in party allegiance is the result of the failure to compromise for the common good. When a party finally realizes this and switches its allegiance from a party to the people who elect them they will become dominant in the American political scene. I don’t believe a politician must abandon his principles to compromise for the common good… remember a republican or democrat may be elected with a party designation but he must still represent all regardless of personal and political beliefs. I’m afraid neither party has learned this lessen. Butch

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 12:20:42 PM)
sure I guess they could go to the er, but that just clogs n contests them so badly that true emergency people can't hardly get seen in a timely manner , and is frankly a piss poor solution. Unless you know some great secret to getting health care other than th er with no money, and you're not saying. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom Excuse me? It's a lie that the poor can't get health insurance? Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 1:17:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom sure I guess they could go to the er, but that just clogs n contests them so badly that true emergency people can't hardly get seen in a timely manner , and is frankly a piss poor solution. Unless you know some great secret to getting health care other than th er with no money, and you're not saying. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom Excuse me? It's a lie that the poor can't get health insurance? No secrets needed. Medicaid, University clinics, state funded clinics, hospitals with sliding fee scales based on income, charities. Learn to read. I said its a lie that the poor can't get health CARE. Insurance isnt necessary, and contrary to Tizzygirls nonsense, you dont need money either.

rulemylife -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 1:34:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Start with portability and buying insurance across state lines. Add tort reform. Throw in some deregulation (are you aware that many states forbid insurance companies from paying more than a certain percentage (usually 60) of their gross out in claims?) I'm happy right there. You truly amaze me sometimes Truckin. You just repeat the Republican talking points verbatim, again and again and again. So why don't you expand on all the wonderful things these measures would do for us.

truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 1:42:54 PM)
quote: You just repeat the Republican talking points verbatim, again and again and again. really??? So which memo included the state regs limiting how much insurance companies can pay out in claims? What have you posted in the last hundred or so posts that wasn't DNC-approved and 99 44/100 % PC purified? Trust me, I am the one amazed. And yet, strangely amazing, I'll give you that.

rulemylife -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 1:56:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I was in a few threads early on, and gave some of my experiences with insurance companies and such. Basically, I hate 'em, and think the system needed some kind of reform, but from a very deep philosophical position do not think the government is/will be particularly "successful" at doing any better of a job. Myself, I would like to see a single-payer system for a number of reasons that many people, including myself, have outlined here. But we don't have government taking over health care. What we have are some very moderate and needed reforms to make sure the insurance companies live up to their obligations. And I cannot see why anyone would be upset by what is being put into place.

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