RE: I am not buying it (Full Version)

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Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:23:52 PM)

True, True.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


And that cost already exceeds the 60 dollars quoted elsewhere. And it doesnt include lab work. They are called Docs in a box... and they arent affiliated with any hospitals... in other words, they dont have admitting priveledges.



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:36:08 PM)

Thanks for the reasonable tone Lockit. Accepting your post as true, I have little doubt that you know far more about the subject than I do.
I have zero doubt that a government big enough to solve every (perceived) need is big enough to take everything everyone has.

You didn't mention open enrollment for new hires.
But- just so I understand- are you telling me that many/most/all states offer no healthcare assistance whatsoever to people below the poverty line unless they have children in the home or are disabled?




Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:36:23 PM)

Let me go further. This is my personal experience I saw repeated in some form with hundreds of people. My childrens father abandoned them and I got no child support for fourteen years. I was remarried, but when I married I was the bigger wage earner. When I got sick, I lost my career and everything at that point. My husband made ten to twelve thousand a year and shouldn't be responsible for another man's children. His income was half mine, therefore half could be income used to support my children (3). By his yearly wages we would qualify for medicaid, yet because he got payments in lump sums, that would kick us off medicaid and we couldn't apply for another three months. So we might have medicaid, because of the children... which my husband didn't get because he wasn't allowed to, as they were not his children, maybe three or four months a year. My medical bills ruined us both, mounted so high we lost everything and then what support I did have was lost because he couldn't take anymore.

I needed total bed rest, by doctors orders, no one knew what the hell was wrong with me for many, many years and my work hour credits couldn't be used after two years and meant that I couldn't get SSD, but had to go for the welfare system of social security (I call it that), if I applied. Because the medical community couldn't figure things out, I was in limbo for over fifteen years. (I wasn't out of work all that time, but could never work steadily for two years to get work hour credits needed for SSD. I got some private income (not tax dollars and owed to me) and have forgone applying and don't have a medical team that will first accept me, secondly know what the hell to do with me other than kill me with their lack of understanding and I cannot get help if I wanted it. Which in a few years I may need because I keep getting sicker from genetic diseases I had no role in and will lose my income from any moment to the next four years.

My story is a bit different than others, but there are many that come very close to my own.



tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:38:04 PM)

Guess he missed my post directly from the government web site.



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:42:31 PM)

quote:

Low income is only one test for Medicaid eligibility; assets and resources are also tested against established thresholds.


Excellent!!!


quote:

Medically needy persons who would be categorically eligible except for income or assets may become eligible for Medicaid solely because of excessive medical expenses.



so- excessive medical expenses do qualify people for medicaid??

I think you need to get together with Lockit, because I think you just supported my position.

A threesome with you two might make my year.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:44:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Thanks for the reasonable tone Lockit. Accepting your post as true, I have little doubt that you know far more about the subject than I do.
I have zero doubt that a government big enough to solve every (perceived) need is big enough to take everything everyone has.

You didn't mention open enrollment for new hires.
But- just so I understand- are you telling me that many/most/all states offer no healthcare assistance whatsoever to people below the poverty line unless they have children in the home or are disabled?




No, please don't put words in my mouth. There may be clinic's for the poor, some(edit the word some) were basically started for migrant workers in many area's, that American's can go to. Not all cities have them, but those that do, go based on income just as social services does and are connected information wise with social services to assure that people don't cheat. If you are lucky you can be seen for non serious things. You must pay for all testing outside the clinic and only get the appointment with the doctor on a sliding fee. If you have serious health issues you are going to be neglected for the most part and they will often times discourage you from coming in. Another thing hardly ever admitted. They get more funds if they are successful, just like many helping agencies and they don't like the people that can't prove a success. If you are sliding into that bucket of shit... you might be allowed to continue to slide because you don't look good on their books.

As for open enrollment... what does that mean to anyone with a pre-existing illness that they reject. I was told many years ago that if I paid the premiums for two years with no services, they would take me on a limited basis. Then it got to where no one would touch me. I was un-insurable.  Some companies will allow you to get their insurance knowing you had medical problems and then as soon as you used the insurance, they canceled you or raised your rates so high you couldn't afford it any longer. Not to mention the complaints from employers!



tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:47:52 PM)

You forgot the important part, in your stretch to make the case fit your definition...

In general, you should apply for Medicaid if you have limited income and resources. You must match one of the descriptions below.

Pregnant Women

Children and Teenagers

Person who is Aged, Blind, and/or Disabled

(these are pretty self-explanatory)

Other Situations

Apply if you are leaving welfare and need health coverage. Apply if you are a family with children under age 18 and have limited income and resources. (You do not need to be receiving a welfare check.) Apply if you have very high medical bills, which you cannot pay (and you are pregnant, under age 18 or over age 65, blind, or disabled).

http://www.cms.gov/MedicaidEligibility/02_AreYouEligible_.asp



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:49:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Low income is only one test for Medicaid eligibility; assets and resources are also tested against established thresholds.


Excellent!!!


quote:

Medically needy persons who would be categorically eligible except for income or assets may become eligible for Medicaid solely because of excessive medical expenses.



so- excessive medical expenses do qualify people for medicaid??

I think you need to get together with Lockit, because I think you just supported my position.

A threesome with you two might make my year.


Wrong. She didn't support your position. It is a matter of wording. It is far more detailed that I can explain here and I won't research it to prove anything. I am tired. Bottom line if you have extensive medical bills and such, they say you can get help, but basically they will find another way to make sure you do not get the benefits. This is how they double talk and make the tax payer think there are services there are not for the money they are collecting from them. Basically if they did give medicaid or anything else like it to those in serious situations, why would people be losing their houses, going bankrupt and ending up homeless? Which is another issue that plays into all of this.

This is what I presented to congress persons and senators and what I argued with social security and social services. They didn't like me much. I always won, but what I couldn't win much of was change.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:50:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You forgot the important part, in your stretch to make the case fit your definition...

In general, you should apply for Medicaid if you have limited income and resources. You must match one of the descriptions below.

Pregnant Women

Children and Teenagers

Person who is Aged, Blind, and/or Disabled

(these are pretty self-explanatory)

Other Situations

Apply if you are leaving welfare and need health coverage. Apply if you are a family with children under age 18 and have limited income and resources. (You do not need to be receiving a welfare check.) Apply if you have very high medical bills, which you cannot pay (and you are pregnant, under age 18 or over age 65, blind, or disabled).

http://www.cms.gov/MedicaidEligibility/02_AreYouEligible_.asp



And what they don't say is that if you are aged and blind, you have to be on disability before you can get it. It takes years in most cases to get disability. By then you have lost the house, cars, whatever.



tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/5/2010 11:52:34 PM)

Disability... the benefit you have to hire a lawyer to get. [8|]



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:02:26 AM)

Its my personal experience that families with a lot of depression often have a lot of alcoholics. Certainly that's true of my family. Again, just from anecdotal personal experience, refusal to seek treatment is not uncommon. Either for oneself or for one children. I spent a long time refusing it myself. Two things.

Do something.Anything. For, I suspect, yourself and him. Even if you are not depressed, caring for him under these conditions cannot be easy. There are free 12-step meetings everywhere. It does not have to be designed just for depressives, in both my opinion and experience. My AA group has been "crashed" by Weight Watchers Anonymous, Sex and love Addicts, Adult Children of Alcoholics, Gamblers.... My first pigeon suffered as much from depression as booze- maybe more. No one in my group cared about these outsiders., except on the rare occasion of a "closed" meeting with someone present who was actually concerned about maintaining anonymity. Under those conditions we told the outsiders the location and time of the next open meeting, and invited them to come to it. These groups are many things, from coffee clatches to stress management, but they anount to free group therapy; they have helped an awful lot of people.

EVERY AA group seems to me to have members with centuries of dealing with government agencies, clinics, etc. Someone will know how to get a legitimate prescription, and how to get the manufacturer to fill it for free, or at least at greatly reduced cost.

Your bigger problem may be getting the depressive to cooperate. With anything.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:10:13 AM)

Oh good lord truckin. You are talking about a serious and complicated matter with a kindergarten awareness of it. You might as well stop. I am tired and I had three strokes in the last week or so and I can still put you to shame here. Give it up because once you get me riled up...lol... you are going down and you will go down faster than any congress person or senator. I have forgotten more than most know in a lifetime about this sort of thing. BUT.. let me say this again... B U T... not everyone that is depressed self medicates. Twelve step programs can be worthless. Mental health clinics for the poor are over whelmed and it can take some time to get in, if you can get in at all. Then again there are stipulations and double talk.

You are getting into area's where you may have heard or read some things in the news, where I have been in the trenches with these people trying to resource and battle a no win situation all the way around. Please stop trying to advise people when you don't know what harm you could do. You are walking in a mine field blind.

First of all you have a basic knowledge that depression might run in families as it is genetic in many cases and yes, they could but may not, self medicate. But what you have is a root problem. You get to the root and you can solve the other problems.



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:16:15 AM)

okay TG. I read the document. My takeaway is that if you are young and able-bodied you are on your own, independent and free. Again, excellent.

have I ever told you that the first law made here by a European was: Work or starve?



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:18:41 AM)

quote:

. Basically if they did give medicaid or anything else like it to those in serious situations, why would people be losing their houses, going bankrupt and ending up homeless?


Those are called resources.
I have no problem with your using your resources to pay for your problems before you take my resources by force.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:19:33 AM)

May your god help you truckin if you should ever get out of your truck and slip on some ice and ruin your back and career. May you be blessed in ways others who were prepared and then ruined were not. Because if it happens to you, just like it can happen to anyone... you will be the first to break emotionally because you didn't think it could happen, will remember your words... and will have to eat them.



tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:20:35 AM)

Again, you dont comprehend well, truckin. That isnt what it says at all.

The poor in this country have no ability to obtain health care.

Now that you have admitted that, we can move forward.



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:28:56 AM)

quote:

where I have been in the trenches with these people trying to resource and battle a no win situation all the way around.


Me too. the difference I see is that I have helped myself, and some of them.

quote:

Twelve step programs can be worthless.


Or priceless.

quote:

they could but may not, self medicate.


You're the only one talking about self-medication. The phrase I used was "legitinate prescription".

quote:

But what you have is a root problem.


If you see a root problem then you have acquired experience without developing perception. If you are referring to depression as "the root problem", I stand by my advice for that part of the overall problem.

Psychologist to aisle 8, please. Never mind, I'll talk to my daughter. She qualifies.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:31:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

. Basically if they did give medicaid or anything else like it to those in serious situations, why would people be losing their houses, going bankrupt and ending up homeless?


Those are called resources.
I have no problem with your using your resources to pay for your problems before you take my resources by force.


Most have no problem paying for their needs with their resources, but sooner or later the resources end. Then what? Then crime has an upsurge. Then people prostitute themselves. They will get into abusive relationships and stay in them because they are afraid of being homeless. Then they can also lose their children. Did you know that or even care? You see, if you have been ill for two years and not even that long in some cases, social services can come and take the children away. Basically, I think I read around here in the last couple of days, where some were saying... take the kids... well, let's look at that for a moment. Loving parents raise children they love... they get sick... the kids are taken for their protection because of course the parent cannot parent while ill.. (bullshit) and then the parents must pay support for the children in care until they are adopted, which may or may not happen and they may end up in foster care. Meanwhile the children are harmed emotionally because they are ripped out of their families arms... poor and ill parents, but beloved and then the scars there magnify. Crime rates can increase from this alone and the tax payer not only pays for whatever can be paid for or whatever need there is, social workers keep their jobs and the kids can get pretty fucked up.

You don't like abortion... but how about that? Think we are doing anything good for this country when children are being messed up because they have lost their parents before they died simply because they were ill and without decent medical coverage, were unable to get well?

You are over your head here.



truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:32:59 AM)

I admitted no such thing.
Many hospitals and all emergency rooms are required by law to treat everyone.
You just want to define "access to health care" as free cradle to grave hour-long housecalls for headaches and sprains.
I think the next two years may be harder on you than the previous two were for me.



Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:33:11 AM)

Dude I didn't say depression was the root problem. The root problem is often times based in the medical field and not being able to get services.

BTW... bring your daughter in, I would have no problem discussing this with her.



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