RE: I am not buying it (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:39:44 AM)

quote:

Most have no problem paying for their needs with their resources, but sooner or later the resources end. Then what?


Then there's a modest safety net.




Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:40:32 AM)

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:42:24 AM)

quote:

BTW... bring your daughter in, I would have no problem discussing this with her.


I am waaaaay deep in the closet.




Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:43:39 AM)

Well darlin, don't bring in back up unless you can bring it. Bottom line, just because you know someone in the field doesn't mean you know shit. [;)]




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:55:15 AM)

Psychologist to aisle 8, please. Never mind, I'll talk to my daughter. She qualifies.



If you fail to see the humor/sarcasm in that, I once again wonder about your lack of perception.




Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 12:59:00 AM)

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]  You've been eating a lot of trucker food haven't ya?






Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 1:07:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Psychologist to aisle 8, please. Never mind, I'll talk to my daughter. She qualifies.



If you fail to see the humor/sarcasm in that, I once again wonder about your lack of perception.


OR... your jokes suck. lol Forget stand up comedy as a second career.




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 1:21:09 AM)

quote:

OR... your jokes suck. lol Forget stand up comedy as a second career.


there's that lack of perception again. [:D][:D]




Lockit -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 1:31:56 AM)

LOL... okay truckin... I give you permission to copy all I have said... copy what you said as well... you don't even have to tell your daughter that doesn't know what you are into what site this was... take it all to your daughter and see what she says.

If you can only attack me personally for my poor perception and not address the more serious things I have brought up, you are wasting my time. You wish to remain as you are and that is your choice... enjoy yourself.

Really, I would love to hear what your daughter would have to say about our take on all of this. I never said I was a doctor. I was an advocate and worked in and touched all areas. This wasn't about mental health, but touched on it. The real issues... you avoided with haphazard, deflection. Fail.




popeye1250 -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 1:41:44 AM)

This is why we need some type of single payer system. Obama's plan is shit! You get fined if you don't buy insurance?
Unless you're an illegal alien of course!
They get better care than our poor in their own country.




hertz -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 2:36:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Many hospitals and all emergency rooms are required by law to treat everyone.
You just want to define "access to health care" as free cradle to grave hour-long housecalls for headaches and sprains.



Surely it would be cheaper to provide access to preventative health care than it is to provide access to emergency health care? Treating a health problem before it becomes an emergency is the root of all good health care systems. Your claim that a national health service is purely about headaches and sprains is just plain wrong.


Taking the subject in a slightly different direction, has anyone ever looked at cost comparisons between nationalised health services (such as the UK model) and the privatised stuff the US has?

Here's a few numbers to mull over...

The US was spending 15% of GDP on healthcare in 2009. That's $2.2 trillion, of which the government pays about half.
Same period, the UK was spending 8% of GDP. That's about $155billion

Take populations into account, and per capita you get the UK government spending about $3200 for covering 100% of the population of the UK. The US government per capita spends $3700, whilst covering only a third of the population.

When you look at private healthcare costs, the average private citizen pays $5000 to insurance companies for their health care. As the figures above suggest, the average UK citizen pays the government $3200.

The US is apparently getting a seriously good deal (not)!

'Of course', I hear some of you saying, 'privatised medical treatment is much better quality'. I don't know about that. But I understand the quality of care plummets once your insurance has paid to its maximum.




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 7:59:35 AM)

The oft-ignored truth in this is that the cost driver is new technology.
Stop research, stop bringing new devices and drugs into the healthcare marketplace, and the cost will stabilize.
I am verrrrry tired of this study and that study making comparisons between this system and that system with no apparent attempt at controlling the variables between the two.
One really can compare apples and oranges... if you control for weight, ripeness, type, variant, freshness, moon cycle when picked...
I would love to see a study between Canadian, Ugandan, and American healthcare systems comparing costs over a ten year period for black heterosexual men born on 14 June 1952, raised in two-parent holistic households with non-floridated water, an emphasis on fruits and lamb in their childhood diets, all subjects to be 2.1-2.2 meters tall and weighing between 190 and 192 pounds, non-drug users, and drinkers of only single malt scotch whiskey. I hope the study proves that Uganda has damned excellent healthcare.
Seriously, there are so many cultural and other differences between the populations of the US and the UK that any study is just meaningless. And we haven't even talked about quality of care....




tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 8:34:08 AM)

quote:

Many hospitals and all emergency rooms are required by law to treat everyone.


What you're not entitled to
If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you. The hospital most likely will direct you to your own doctor or to a less-intensive-care setting, such as a community health clinic.


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/KnowYourRights/KnowYourEmergencyRoomRights.aspx

ER's do not have to treat everyone. Only emergency cases. They can, and will, turn away someone who does not fit the criteria.

To get more legal...

At the federal level, we have the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, popularly known by its acronym, "EMTALA". EMTALA imposes the obligation to provide for examination and treatment for emergency medical conditions and women in labor. The first requirement is that of "medical screening".The law requires that, in the case of a hospital that has an emergency room department, if any individual presents themself to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual's behalf for examination or treatment for a medical condition, the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital's emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition exists. The obligation to examine and/or treat does not depend on whether the patient is eligible for Medicare or Medicaid benefits. The term "emergency medical condition" means:

A.1. a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in;

2. placing the health of the individual (or, with respect to a pregnant woman, the health of the woman of her unborn child) in serious jeopardy;
3. serious impairment to bodily functions; or,
4. serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part; or,
(B) with respect to a pregnant woman who is having contractions;
1. that there is inadequate time to effect a safe transfer to another hospital before delivery; or,
2. that transfer may impose a threat to the health or safety of the woman and unborn child.



EMTALA also imposes an obligation to stabilize a patient within the operational and clinical capabilities of the facility, or transfer a patient to another appropriate facility. A hospital may not transfer a patient that presents with an emergency medical condition until the patient is stabilized. Until the patient has been stabilized, no transfer should occur unless the following occurs:

(A)(i) the individual (or a legally responsible person acting on the individual's behalf) after being informed of the hospital's obligations under the law and of the risk of transfer, in writing requests transfer to another medical facility;

(ii) a physician signs a certification that based on the information available at the time of transfer, the medical benefits reasonably expected from the provision of appropriate medical treatment at another medical facility outweigh the increased risks to the individual and, in the case of labor, to the unborn child from effecting the transfer, or,

(iii) if a physician is not physically present in the emergency department at the time the individual is transferred, a qualified medical person (which can in certain cases be a nurse), after a physician in consultation with the qualified medical person, has made the determination and the physician subsequently countersigns the certification that transfer is appropriate.

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jun/1/129582.html

This law prevents hospitals from dumping patients. The only thing it requires to everyone who walks through an ER door is to be triaged... assessed... it does not require hospitals to treat everyone.




slvemike4u -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 9:31:30 AM)

Typical conservative point of view concerning health care....and what it amounts to is.....tough shit,I have mine...fuck you if you don't.
Nice way to sum up all that is wrong with conservatives truckin....you ,in your narrow minded mean spirited views, make a better case for the liberal side than I ever could.Keep posting....please.




tazzygirl -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 10:14:32 AM)

Part of the problem is, mike, is that they believe the party rhetoric without researching it on their own.

Medicaid is for the poor... which is true... but only if you are underage, blind, pregnant, old or disabled... and then you have to jump through hoops and more red tape before they help.

ERs are required to treat.... nope... they are required to triage... they can refuse treatment if the patient is not an emergency.

Drs can refuse to treat due to lack of the ability to pay.

Charities do only so much... and they base their willingness to help on financial means.

For example, in Pittsburgh there is the Catholic Charities...

quote:

Eligibility Requirements

You may qualify for care if you meet the following three criteria. Eligibility is reevaluated annually.

1.You have no coverage under any other health insurance plan for the service for which you are applying, AND
2.Your household income does not exceed 200% of the poverty level, based on Federal Poverty Guidelines (see FPG chart), AND
3.You do not qualify for Medicaid, Medicare or other government supported programs such as CHIP.
Note: Some people with medical coverage may still be eligible for dental and/or vision services provided at the Free Health Care Center

Federal Poverty Guidelines (FPG)

The chart below shows maximum household incomes by specified time periods, which are no greater than 200% of Federal Poverty Guidelines.

Note: Household income includes all working individuals that reside in the home who contribute to the annual gross income.


Chart is available at the link...

quote:

Required Documentation

1. Free Health Care Center Eligibility Application. Download and print the form.
2. Medical Assistance Denial Letter. PA Dept of Welfare - Medical Assistance

If you are unemployed, a medical assistance denial letter is required.
If you are employed, a medical assistance denial letter is strongly recommended.

3. Proof of household income. One of the following:

•Recent pay stub with year to date listed, if no YTD then four recent pay stubs are acceptable
•Recent W-2 form
•Recent tax return
•Employer's verification of wages
•If self-employed: recent tax return and Profit and Loss (P&L) statement
•Letter from Social Security indicating benefits for the year


http://67.199.22.244/services.cfm

Room with someone, share an apartment, and their income is included with yours. Even here you have to file for medicaid before you can apply. Simply put, i dont qualify, even as a waitress.

So im just begging for wontbe or truckin or anyone to explain to me where i can go to get medical care that doesnt require insurance or money.... anyone? Anyone who can explain that to me?




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 10:19:34 AM)

quote:

ER's do not have to treat everyone. Only emergency cases.

Exactly.
Maybe they will go buy some fucking insurance.




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 10:22:04 AM)

quote:

Typical conservative point of view concerning health care..


Concerning life.
I am responsible for: me.
You are responsible for: you.
That dynamic should be changed only as a last resort.

Liberals want to make me responsible for you, by law and by force.
It's a failed ideology.




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 10:27:21 AM)

quote:

So im just begging for wontbe or truckin or anyone to explain to me where i can go to get medical care that doesnt require insurance or money.... anyone? Anyone who can explain that to me?


Instead of getting a job with benefits, or getting the education to do so, you're begging the government to take my money by force and give it to you.
The answer, as plainly as I can express it, to the greeatest extent allowed to me by law, is: no, not that way. Be responsible for yourself.

Now, if you have an immediate, temporary need, I'll be glad to contribute. Seriously.




slvemike4u -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 10:29:37 AM)

See that is where you go off the rails....the bottom line is this...it costs you more in the long run under your model.As others have pointed out we,as Americans,pay more per capita under the present system,than any other industrial nation.And we ,as a nation,are no healthier.
Those who do not have access to basic preventive care...eventually wind up in emergency rooms(the no good fucks just don't have the character of stregnth to die quietly in their homes)and we/you wind up footing the bill.
Now we can keep on doing it this way(the Republican choice) or we can try something different.Please bear in mind that one measure of insanity is to.....keep repeating the same actions and expect different results.




truckinslave -> RE: I am not buying it (11/6/2010 11:05:14 AM)

I'm happy with the results.
The comparisons are essentially worthless without controls.
I already devoted a post to that.




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