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new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 3:38:00 PM   
happyhat


Posts: 7
Joined: 10/21/2010
Status: offline 		Hello everyone. I am brand new to this lifestyle and think i have found someone to teach me but i am a little concerned about something. Through our conversations i have told him that i am interested in learning, exploring, and trying everything this lifestyle has to offer but asked him how i would let him know if things were getting to be too much for me and his basic response was "if you know you can say no, what is there to make you obey". Although i kind of understand his logic, it also seems to me that would leave me in a very unsafe position... wouldn't it?  If he turns out to be the wrong one for me, can anyone suggest a way for a newbe to find a Master/Dom who can take someone from ground zero all the way thru... whatever... safely?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 3:51:57 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		A dominant that thinks not being able to say no is a way to control you? Wow... it takes all kinds I guess.

How about respect, honor, commitment, love? Any of these things are a sound way to entice someone to obey. Both of these things come from both people. If force is used and expected to be used to go against what someone can handle and that is dominance, I am a pomegranate.  That is someone saying that he has little respect for your limitations, will force you whether you can handle it or not, is someone that doesn't understand dominance the way I understand it and someone I would be very concerned about.

In picking someone you wish to commit to in some manner, to give that commitment in the first place, I would think he would have to be impressive and you would need to feel relatively safe. He sure doesn't make one feel either of those things when he thinks your limits are used to force you to obey. I believe it is about drawing one to want to submit to me, not forcing them to.

What do you think?


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(in reply to happyhat)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 4:27:52 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Why do you have to be made to obey? That seems counter productive to me. I'm not sure I'm buying what this guy is selling and he would be a bad match for someone like me who wants to please. I derive intense pleasure from being a good partner to my Dom and doing what he wants...not what he doesn't want. We don't 'do' punishment in my dynamic, I would feel like an utter failure if he felt that I had to be punished. Ymmv...there is no right or wrong way to set up a relationship and others can do what makes them happy. This just happens to be what makes the two of us happy- he asks me to do something and I do it. Any pain involved is under the heading of fun not punishment.

There are all kinds of people out there, if there is someone who has ideas that make you uncomfortable then there could be someone out there who is a better match. How to find that person...?
When I was new I read everything I could get my hands on including here in the forums. I talked to a lot of people and asked questions. You can find real life groups in your area, that would help immensely. I paid a lot of attention to what made me uncomfortable, what flipped my switches, etc. The thing that helped me the most was my finely honed BS meter- if something wouldn't fly in the vanilla world then it wasn't going to fly in the D/s world either. Men tried to tell me all kinds of things including things like this guy told you about making you obey. I ran it all through the BS meter and paid attention to how it shook out. Yes, I got taken advantage of sometimes but nothing too horrible and I learned from it.

In general I'd just like to say that there is someone out there that will make you comfortable and happy and who you will be glad to know. I hope you find him

(in reply to happyhat)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 4:48:05 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hello happy hat,

He's taking advantage of your naivete.  You are ALWAYS allowed to say no.  Any man who said this kind of bullshit to me would soon find he was talking to the air. 

I did that whole "you aren't allowed to say no" nonsense - I'm damn lucky to have survived with my psyche intact.   Imagine if your daughter told you she was going to spend time with a guy who told her she couldn't say no.   That would be fine, right?  Of course not. Same goes for you. 

You are looking for a particular kind of man, a particular kind of way to interact.  I expect that at this juncture you aren't sure what that is - based on your assertion you want to explore.  If you want to explore, and this is hard when you are a newbie, here's an idea:

Decide you will not get into a serious relationship (of any kind - including someone who will "teach" you) for maybe 6 months.  Then go to a bunch of events, meet other women, and experiment.  Go to demos, offer to try something, to be the one someone tries stuff on.  Be a free agent and see what happens.  Experience the physical sensations without all the mental bullshit / guilt that people can put on you when you are in a relationship (of whatever kind).  Experience bottoming to a straight woman, to a gay man, to someone who won't try to take advantage of you in unscrupulous ways.  Meanwhile, you will gain some confidence, some knowledge, some experience, and you will learn from the other folks who the asshats are, and the best thing - you'll probably make some friends.

Good luck,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 11/8/2010 5:05:18 PM >

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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 4:59:48 PM   
tiggerspoohbear


Posts: 19141
Joined: 6/27/2010
Status: offline 		How will you be able to obey by saying no? Very easily, and I am not making light of this situation in the least, RUN FOR THE HILLS.  This isn't a Dom, this is someone who wants nothing but control and to make you an emotional wreck.  Take if from someone who's been there, done that.  If it doesn't feel right in your gut, don't discount it.  Listen to it, very hard.  If he tried that on anyone but a new submissive, there's a whole lot of doubt that he'd get away with it. 

Limits are there for a reason, so are safe words, and so is trust with and for your partner.  Tell him thanks but no thanks, and block him.  Don't let yourself in for heartbreak down the road.  Submissive does not equal doormat (and I really hate using that term), but it's the truth.  We're not just labels, we're human beings with real feelings and emotions.  This is all part and parcel of everyone, regardless of Dom/me, switch, sub/slave.

You have a right to your opinion, and until you decide that you've found the right person for *you* then no one can tell you what's right or wrong.  They can't even tell you you're "fake" since they're not so real in the scheme of life.  Think of them as coming from an alternate universe, one we were in no way meant to comprehend.

He'll try to get away with as much as he can until you start to question, then he'll try to blame you for it.  Sorry but a Dom controls himself and wants you to obey, not with punishment (although there are those who like that dynamic), but with a loving hand and sometimes just a look.  He doesn't do it by "telling" you how you should feel, you own those feelings, don't let them go for anyone.  It's just not worth the pain.


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(in reply to sunshinemiss)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:00:56 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		In answer to your question...........You get to know him and take as long as it takes until you actually feel the same way he does.

I understand his *logic* too.......but that doesn't appear overnight.

agirl

(in reply to happyhat)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:06:08 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		You have the right to withdraw consent at anytime you wish. So, rather than trying to take the option away, perhaps he should be trying to find a way to make you WANT to obey.

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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:07:26 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I had to read that twice to make sure I read it correctly:  no right to say no?  what is there to make you obey? 

Everyone....EVERYONE...has the right to say no.
The Domme/Dom/Top has the right to say no....and equally does the sub/servant/bottom.
This is the part where I drag out my soapbox and all the CollarMe folks roll their eyes--but I've been in the leather/BDSM community for a long time, and reading this type of post just makes me shake my head.  People who call themselves Masters and  have not a clue what it is really all about, and they prey on novice/naive women who don't know or understand that the power they possess is a precious loan. 

The most intoxicating thing about receiving submission is when it is a gift that is offered freely and willingly out of love, respect, and a desire to serve.

Happyhat--you have the right to say no.  I suggest you exercise that right by saying "no" to this guy and just walk away.





(in reply to happyhat)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:33:54 PM   
anniezz338


Posts: 1183
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline 		Sorry your dealing with this, but this has red flags all over it. I would think limits would be discussed at this point.

I'd probably say something to the effect of ok fine, here's the only no you'll get from me. Goodbye.

(in reply to hausboy)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:34:45 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		I sent you mail.

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(in reply to happyhat)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:44:43 PM   
subinlife


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline 		Hello Happyhat, welcome to the forums and the lifestyle. You have the right to say " no" in all the things you do, including being submissive. You seem to be getting some very good advice. When I was very new to this lifestyle I was encouraged to come ask questions here. Which I did and got good advice. The people here as a rule have the good answers. Good luck with your search.

(in reply to hausboy)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:56:56 PM   
dory007


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/2/2009
Status: offline 		the mantra is either Safe, Sane and Consensual or Risk Aware Consensual Kink.
notice they both contain the word "CONSENSUAL" that means you always have the right to say no.
And if your desire to lease him isn't enough to make you want to obey him, then like tiggerspoohbear said RUN FOR THE HILLS


(in reply to subinlife)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 6:58:16 PM   
dory007


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/2/2009
Status: offline 		a spell check should also contain thought check, that was "if your desire to please him........

(in reply to dory007)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 7:11:20 PM   
WolfyMontgomery


Posts: 234
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Like everyone else said, EVERYONE can say no.

There's tons of things to give you incentive to obey, like respect, inspiration, love. Most people offer their submission as a gift freely given, not as a thing that was "made" to happen or forced out of them or taken. If he can't inspire your submission then why should he even get it? Same way in any other relationship, if he can't inspire you to love or respect him, why even be with him?

Sounds to me more like he saw you as a piece of fresh, unknowing meat and figured he could get his way with you. My advice for you? Read up on bdsm, d/s, m/s, and all that jazz yourself, there's plenty of books out there. Go to events and munches in your area and watch the people there, learn from them. Figure out what you want and what you need to know. Don't rely on someone who makes you nervous or unsure. Learn for yourself, learn of yourself.

Eventually you might find someone that you can throw away the word "no" with, but those sorts of relationships take time, and a whole lot of trust between the two people involved, and a lot of self knowledge as well. Without those things you're walking on a slippery slope with upturned daggers at the bottom, because you won't know if that person is going to take advantage of you or not.


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-A Wolf of a Different Color

Fear me and my Gleaming Metal Chompers of DOOM!
..........that means my braces. >_>

(in reply to happyhat)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 9:11:16 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		happyhat, if this was a session, then he would be denying you the use of a safeword.  That's unsafe enough, but to extend that outside of a session....

To answer his question, what there is to make you obey is that you trust him and want to obey.  Duh.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to WolfyMontgomery)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 9:17:41 PM   
DarklySubtle


Posts: 36
Joined: 7/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dory007

And if your desire to lease him isn't enough to make you want to obey him, then like tiggerspoohbear said RUN FOR THE HILLS




Subs got Dom leases!

(in reply to dory007)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/8/2010 9:25:13 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
To answer his question, what there is to make you obey is that you trust him and want to obey.  Duh.



What he said.

It's legally impossible for you to waive your right to say no. There are a couple of legal things that you can do to give him more legal authority over you but if you say no, he screws you anyway and you call the cops... the man is still in very serious trouble.

So you can always say no. The question is not the ability to open your mouth and say a word. It's having a dynamic where you don't want to. Even on those days you'd rather stay in the bed and eat chocolate.

Now, you can persue this if you want to. For all I know, the man meant it in the context "I don't want you to ever say no to me" but - and this is a very but - if you are feeling uncomfortable now that is a big red flag.

As for getting through it - I wouldn't really suggest finding a partner to guide you through. I'd start reading books on BDSM, power dynamics, kinky folk, etc and start going to munchs. Talk to people about their experiences and what they believe. Expect to ask 20 people the same question and get 40 different answers!

Come to your own conclusions about you want and what you believe and what will fillful you. And then look for a man who will thrill in receiving that sort of service.

YMMV

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/9/2010 3:08:18 AM   
BlackTigerDragon


Posts: 180
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline 		I don't like what he says either. It doesn't sound at all safe to me. And safety is very important at this point.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/9/2010 5:34:29 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		One of the first orders he gave me was to say no when necessary. And explain it to him. I obey because he makes great decisions and I do better following him instead of having to be in charge myself. Sounds like this guy doesn't make good or smart decisions worth obeying, and instead of manning up and doing the right thing so as to earn someone's trust and decisions, he's decided to use this drivel instead.

Find someone who cares about your health, your safety and your self esteem. He isn't it.


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RE: new to being a sub and have questions.... - 11/9/2010 7:48:09 AM   
Inthewoods


Posts: 36
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		What everyone else said.  I can say no anytime I want, but I haven't wanted to.  That's a very different thing to not being able to.  Learning what you like and don't like, what flavour of this lifestyle fits you is a delicate journey.  Nobody should be putting pressure like that on you right at the start and your instincts about it are spot on.  Always trust your instincts!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 20
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