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dewillac -> Research (11/11/2010 7:38:07 AM)
I'm writing my second book and I have questions about the D/s relationship. I'm not sure where to go to ask my questions and thought I would try here. Can someone help even it means directing me to the right place? Thank you.

mnottertail -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 7:38:36 AM)
Ask the question.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 7:54:24 AM)
Thank you for your response. I write romance novels and my first will be published in February. My second book has taken a new direction and involves BDSM. I have actually have several questions. I'm confused about Master vs. Dom. Are they the same? How are they different? Is training required to become a Master? Can one Dom generally see those traits another man? Is it possible that a man could be a Dom and his wife not know? Can a Dom sell a sub? Why? How? How long is the relationship? Why would a relationship end? If the sub wants out, how is that accomplished? If the sub is released from the Dom, can she come back? Can a Dom buy a sub, sell her to another, and on and on? Thank you for any help you can provide to me. Pat

poise -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:24:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac Can a Dom sell a sub? Why? How? You are probably confusing Sub with Slave, but regardless, human trafficking is illegal. How long is the relationship? Until someone say's Uncle...or until there is no longer a good reason to stay together. Just like non-bdsm relationships. Why would a relationship end? Money, difference in politcal beliefs...etc. Just like non-bdsm relationships If the sub wants out, how is that accomplished? She explains that she no longer wants to be a part of this relationship and packs her things and leaves, or helps to pack his things. If the sub is released from the Dom, can she come back? Reconciliations are possible in any relationship. Can a Dom buy a sub, sell her to another, and on and on? See Above Thank you for any help you can provide to me. Pat

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:24:39 AM)
No, Doms and Masters are not the same. It takes years to become a Master--as the term implies, these are people who have mastered their skills and art, not beginners or even people of some experience who are still learning their way. Not that anyone should ever stop learning...but eventually there does become a point where you realize you've gotten quite good at what you do, even though you still hope to keep learning. Doms are less experienced, less expert and often not quite as strong personally or character-wise than Masters. Some Doms are Masters in waiting, they are learning the skills and techniques and will someday have them down pat and become Masters themselves. Most probably will not, because it isn't an easy thing to do, and they will stay as Doms. Some people see a whip and decide they are a Dom...we call those people idiots and can spot them quickly (I can usually tell a legit slave from a wannabe or poser within the first sentence or two I hear her speak, just because I've done this so much that I notice details that the girl will probably not even be aware of if she isn't a slave herself). So you might think of Masters as those who are experienced and very good at what they do, and think of Doms as people who are still in more of a learning phase or sometimes as people who are happy to only get into D/s part way and keep it at that level. Relationships can end for any reason you'd think. Most of the time I've released slaves, it was because they became more trouble than they were worth so I just let them go and moved on. Sometimes a slave will hook up with a man who isn't strong enough to control her...if that's the case, they will dump the Master and go back to their search. But just like in any relationship, there are many things which can cause people to split up. Whether a slave can be bought or sold depends mostly on the way the people involved practice D/s. Often they can indeed be sold, or purchased...but some people don't take it that far and don't get involved in that. For those people, the slave is simply released and becomes free again. If the slave wants out, she removes her collar and returns it to her (now ex-) Master...the collar is somewhat like a wedding ring, and when she takes it off it has the same effect. Yes it's possible for a man to be a Dom, or a girl to be a slave, without their spouse knowing. These are called "unhappy people", because they will never find the things they have now discovered they need in a vanilla relationship--and lots of people don't even begin to think in terms of slaves and Masters until they've already been married for quite a while. Then they have three choices: cheat, divorce, or live a lie--none of which are choices a person would normally want to be forced to make.

poise -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:28:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoulcatcherXXX Yes it's possible for a man to be a Dom, or a girl to be a slave, without their spouse knowing. These are called "unhappy people", because they will never find the things they have now discovered they need in a vanilla relationship--and lots of people don't even begin to think in terms of slaves and Masters until they've already been married for quite a while. Then they have three choices: cheat, divorce, or live a lie--none of which are choices a person would normally want to be forced to make. Or option 4. Communicate with your spouse and discuss these newly discovered needs/wants.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:30:40 AM)
Thank you very much for your specific answers to my specific questions. They will be quite helpful to me as I figure out the rest of my book. I have two more questions and then I think I may be done. You mentioned that a sub can't be sold (human trafficking). How about as an under-the-table deal? You also mentioned slave. In my research, I saw one comment that a man had both a sub and a slave in his life. What is the difference between sub and slave? I appreciate your time with these questions. Thank you.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:32:45 AM)
Your description of Master vs. Dom was very clear and will allow me to use the titles correctly. I've posted a reply to Poise for her response; please feel free to read it and comment as you feel appropriate. Thank you for your time and answers to my questions.

camille65 -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:38:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dewillac Your description of Master vs. Dom was very clear and will allow me to use the titles correctly. I've posted a reply to Poise for her response; please feel free to read it and comment as you feel appropriate. Thank you for your time and answers to my questions. Please be aware that the above description is only one persons opinion of Dom Vs Master. Just about every single person will have their own definition and criteria. I happen to very much disagree with the above definitions. Particularly this segment: "Doms are less experienced, less expert and often not quite as strong personally or character-wise than Masters. Some Doms are Masters in waiting, they are learning the skills and techniques and will someday have them down pat and become Masters themselves. Most probably will not, because it isn't an easy thing to do, and they will stay as Doms. Some people see a whip and decide they are a Dom...we call those people idiots and can spot them quickly (I can usually tell a legit slave from a wannabe or poser within the first sentence or two I hear her speak, just because I've done this so much that I notice details that the girl will probably not even be aware of if she isn't a slave herself). So you might think of Masters as those who are experienced and very good at what they do, and think of Doms as people who are still in more of a learning phase or sometimes as people who are happy to only get into D/s part way and keep it at that level. " I found it amusing but not accurate. I found it 'holier than thou' and condescending, typically those feelings arise when someone attempts to promote their own personal beliefs as The One True Way. There is no one true way. I suggest you spend a couple of weeks browsing forums and reading, talk to people here and begin to form your own opinions. I think you will soon see that the responses vary as much as the responders themselves.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:41:14 AM)
If there is no one true way, is that why you found it amusing and condescending? I'm not trying to be a jerk about this; I'd honestly like to know.

camille65 -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:44:53 AM)
Because you promoted your concept as literal definitions. I usually find it amusing when people are so intent on teeny little boxes for others, in my experience people simply do not fit so readily into preconceived parameters. Maybe I should have been more tactful. Your response was well written and with some thought which is always nice to read! But to claim that all Doms are less than Masters, well to me that really is amusing. Without reading your profile I'd bet that you call yourself a Master. Oh and to clarify, I do not belong to either. I belong to an Owner. So I have no pony in this race.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:47:08 AM)
Well, snerts. Now you've brought up another point for me to consider. How is an owner different from either a master or a dom? Do you start with one first and the relationship progresses into ownership?

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:48:51 AM)
I didn't mean it to sound that way, sorry if it did. I do not believe in "one true way" and I never have. Everyone practices D/s in their own way, no two people are the same, and if it works you're doing it right...that's how I see it anyway. But I think there's no doubt that experience helps a lot, and that without it a person can't say they are a Master. I've seen a lot of people and situations in my life, and my opinions are just that...I don't think anyone should take anything I say here as the final word, ever, because what works for me may not work for anyone else on earth. But I've seen plenty of some of those things I talked about and, like anyone, ended up forming my own opinions about them. I've seen lots of guys who do not have the first idea what to do with a slave parading around trying to give orders to people they don't even know, for instance, and plenty of girls who try to pass themselves off as slaves but don't know the first thing about it...neither of those types are at all hard to spot, because they don't really know what they should be doing so they give themselves away fairly quickly. But I wasn't trying to be holier-than-thou about anything, I am just a traveler like anyone else and I'll tell you straight out: if there was any mistake that could be made along the way that I didn't make, I'd be pretty surprised...I think I made almost all of them, sometimes more than once. So please just take my opinions as nothing more than that...use them if you find them useful, toss them out if not because everyone has to find their own way, and what works or doesn't work for them personally, in the long run.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:53:48 AM)
Nice response to Camille's post. I'm gathering information as I can from people who know about this. I don't know anything about it; it's not my lifestyle. Any info I can get for my book to make it sound feasible as opposed to sci-fi is what I'm looking for and the best way for me to do that is to go to the source. I'm assuming all of the comments I'm getting are from the source. It's your opinions I need and I'll try to apply them correctly to avoid a disaster or, worse, humor where it's not applicable. Sorry for starting the little war.

leadership527 -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:53:59 AM)
I'm confused about Master vs. Dom. Are they the same? How are they different? In the real world, those terms have no meaning. NONE of the BDSM terms have any generally accepted meaning... not even such basic concepts as domination or submission. So you can pretty much ignore whatever the real world says and go with whatever works in your plot line and/or tickles your personal boat. For me personally, I equate master with slave and dom with sub. I don't presume any such title implies any particular knowledge, skills, or ability. Is training required to become a Master? No. Can one Dom generally see those traits another man? I think it is easier for us to see our opposites since that is what attracts us. That being said, it's certainly possible for me to observe dominant behavior in others. I just think Carol's vibes are more sensitive than mine. Is it possible that a man could be a Dom and his wife not know? Depends on what you mean by a dom. Can a Dom sell a sub? Certainly. In almost all countries in the world though, it's considered a heinous crime. You kind of need to ask yourself why is this sub allowing herself to be sold? Why? How? How long is the relationship? Why would a relationship end? If the sub wants out, how is that accomplished? If the sub is released from the Dom, can she come back? Can a Dom buy a sub, sell her to another, and on and on? Thank you for any help you can provide to me. OK, this is where you need to get your head screwed on straight. There is no legal basis for any of this. What that means is that by definition and insofar as consent is possible, the two (or more) people are all consenting to whatever is going on. If you want, think of "selling a sub" a lot like a break-up dressed up in hot juicy BDSM finery for those who groove on such things. Just so you know, I MIGHT be able to sell Carol to someone she didn't know. But no matter how strongly I reinforced whatever commands I gave her, his ability to KEEP her would be his own. In the end, if he wasn't able to both nurture her and dominate her in ways which worked for her, then he'd lose her. Another question you seriously need to ask yourself is why on god's green earth would I SELL such a limited commodity and what would a reasonable asking price be. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a slave to start with? Add onto that the complexity of finding one with chemistry. In a cold-blooded supply & demand sort of analysis, the price for Carol would be more than Bill Gates could afford. Now, in your story, it can go down however you want. But the more you get into non-consensual behavior the less realistic it will be.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:56:24 AM)
Perhaps I'm the one who is presuming too much and I'm getting carried away by own thoughts about where this is going.

Madame4a -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:57:03 AM)
I have a lot of trouble with your Master v. Dom thing.. you certainly set them up as Master is bigger, better, more experienced and more everything... so not true... in many ways they are simply very different things... and while everyone has their own definition... sometimes its as simple as.. Master/slave is to Dom/sub ... and the differences are in the relationship... not in the complexity of Master or Dom.. or in th experience level... wow.. while I've seen a lot of people denigrate the word Top.. I've rarely seen someone denigrate Dominant this way to shore up the great and powerful "Master" ... I see you tried to back pedal below.. but honestly, your thoughts are loud and clear by reading this... Leadership.. I don't think that's true.. while there might not be complex and lengthy definitions attached to those terms... we do need some generally accepted language and meaning in order to communicate. If I am speaking to someone and am looking for a submissive -- we both need to have some idea of what that term means, generally, or I'm taking home a human puppy and I'm not all that interested in a puppy. If we don't agree on the definition of chair, and you think it means a small furry warm being, you're goingto sit on my cat and we'll be in trouble. There are some generally accepted terms associated with those words... there really are, the nuances are just not all agreed upon. quote: ORIGINAL: SoulcatcherXXX No, Doms and Masters are not the same. It takes years to become a Master--as the term implies, these are people who have mastered their skills and art, not beginners or even people of some experience who are still learning their way. Not that anyone should ever stop learning...but eventually there does become a point where you realize you've gotten quite good at what you do, even though you still hope to keep learning. Doms are less experienced, less expert and often not quite as strong personally or character-wise than Masters. Some Doms are Masters in waiting, they are learning the skills and techniques and will someday have them down pat and become Masters themselves. Most probably will not, because it isn't an easy thing to do, and they will stay as Doms. Some people see a whip and decide they are a Dom...we call those people idiots and can spot them quickly (I can usually tell a legit slave from a wannabe or poser within the first sentence or two I hear her speak, just because I've done this so much that I notice details that the girl will probably not even be aware of if she isn't a slave herself). So you might think of Masters as those who are experienced and very good at what they do, and think of Doms as people who are still in more of a learning phase or sometimes as people who are happy to only get into D/s part way and keep it at that level. Relationships can end for any reason you'd think. Most of the time I've released slaves, it was because they became more trouble than they were worth so I just let them go and moved on. Sometimes a slave will hook up with a man who isn't strong enough to control her...if that's the case, they will dump the Master and go back to their search. But just like in any relationship, there are many things which can cause people to split up. Whether a slave can be bought or sold depends mostly on the way the people involved practice D/s. Often they can indeed be sold, or purchased...but some people don't take it that far and don't get involved in that. For those people, the slave is simply released and becomes free again. If the slave wants out, she removes her collar and returns it to her (now ex-) Master...the collar is somewhat like a wedding ring, and when she takes it off it has the same effect. Yes it's possible for a man to be a Dom, or a girl to be a slave, without their spouse knowing. These are called "unhappy people", because they will never find the things they have now discovered they need in a vanilla relationship--and lots of people don't even begin to think in terms of slaves and Masters until they've already been married for quite a while. Then they have three choices: cheat, divorce, or live a lie--none of which are choices a person would normally want to be forced to make.

Twoshoes -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 8:57:51 AM)
slaves want someone to take control of their lives. submissives mostly want someone to take control of things related to their sexuality. Seriously, just read the forums for awhile, you'll figure it out.

SoulcatcherXXX -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:00:26 AM)
"Or option 4. Communicate with your spouse and discuss these newly discovered needs/wants." I agree and I should have included that. I've seen it work a lot of times, too--not in the sense that the spouse can be made into something they aren't meant to be, but that the person is given freedom to go out and experience that part of themselves with other people rather than having to sneak around. It all just depends on the people involved, I think.

dewillac -> RE: Research (11/11/2010 9:00:28 AM)
I'm already reading them and going to several different sites. I'm amazed that one term (title) can mean so many different things to people. I'll keep going. Thanks!

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