RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (Full Version)

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angelikaJ -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 3:13:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clitwhipscream

"Doms dont play fair. Some lie, some steal, some cheat, some just withhold information (strong silent type). Deal with it."

I said that, not the original poster. That is becuase they dont. At least not while the chase is hot. They have a goal, and that goal often includes suterfuge. Each and every one has a different hunting style and a good bottom learns to read it. I know a dom who specificly tops 'via confusion'. I dont play with him, becasue I dont like to be dominated by confusion. That does not mean he is a bad person in fact, he is another big beautiful woodsman friend of mine, makes a fantastic moca capp. If done right, and by the right dom, it is fun. I am safe, physically and emotionaly, with people who admit thier predatory nature. To do otherwise is a victem (or an offender) waiting to happen becasue you can not truely control desires you wont fess up to.

An analogy is when you use an image or idea to stand for another image or idea in order to examine it with another perspective. There are countless ways to do this in kink, the roles are only limited by one's imagination. Humans, can make any relationship erotic. Predator/prey is also a specific kink, and to say that I am confusing food items with sex play is the same as saying a 'daddy' dom really wants to fuck little kids.




She quoted you, I included the original.

Again, that is your experience and your opinion. It is also evidently something attractive to you, that you actively seek out in partners.

It is not my experience, not the experience of several other women who have posted here.

My Master was not a predator; I was not his prey.

My ability to trust him and count on his integrity and honesty are among the qualities that made me want to serve him specifically.
There was no game between us.

edit: typo



BonesFromAsh -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 3:16:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clitwhipscream

"Doms dont play fair. Some lie, some steal, some cheat, some just withhold information (strong silent type). Deal with it."

I said that, not the original poster. That is becuase they dont. At least not while the chase is hot. They have a goal, and that goal often includes suterfuge. Each and every one has a different hunting style and a good bottom learns to read it. I know a dom who specificly tops 'via confusion'. I dont play with him, becasue I dont like to be dominated by confusion. That does not mean he is a bad person in fact, he is another big beautiful woodsman friend of mine, makes a fantastic moca capp. If done right, and by the right dom, it is fun. I am safe, physically and emotionaly, with people who admit thier predatory nature. To do otherwise is a victem (or an offender) waiting to happen becasue you can not truely control desires you wont fess up to.

An analogy is when you use an image or idea to stand for another image or idea in order to examine it with another perspective. There are countless ways to do this in kink, the roles are only limited by one's imagination. Humans, can make any relationship erotic. Predator/prey is also a specific kink, and to say that I am confusing food items with sex play is the same as saying a 'daddy' dom really wants to fuck little kids.



Was this in response to me in particular or just a reply in general?

I'm aware that your coined the phrase above, "Doms don't play fair" I chose to disagree with it.

Subterfuge: –noun; an artifice or expedient used to evade a rule, escape a consequence, hide something, etc.

Somehow I have a problem with anyone, dominant or not, who needs to practice subterfuge to get a partner.

Now, food items and sex play....that's a whole other kink[;)]



DesFIP -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 3:26:10 PM)

Saying you are into predator/prey role play as a kink is different than saying all dominants are unscrupulous, manipulative, lying bastards.

And the fact that people have the potential of becoming predators does not somehow negate the fact that they also have the potential of being saints. Most of us lie somewhere between. The better ones aspire to stick to their morals no matter what.



clitwhipscream -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 3:31:28 PM)

The leather people I play with then tend to the devious kind. I like a challenge, and I like people who are real. People who are no more afraid to show me the devilish parts of themselves than they are the saintly ones.



CeriseNin -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 3:56:41 PM)

Wow. Glad you got out of there! Guy sounds like bad news, to say the least. You didn't over react. He sounds slimy.

Ugh...spelling.



clitwhipscream -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 4:03:22 PM)

Which is, I am thinking, exactly what OP is looking for. When you see yourself in a pattern like this it is often becasue there is something in the experience that is drawing you to it. If you can, name the feelings that went along with it and try to figure out how to SAFELY play with those feelings. What you are doing can not (consider the crowd you are dealing with here) be considered 'wrong' it is just that when you are not consious of what you are doing or why, you can get into real trouble.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 4:13:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clitwhipscream

Which is, I am thinking, exactly what I AM looking for. When I see MYself in a pattern like this it is often becasue there is something in the experience that is drawing ME to it. I name the feelings that went along with it and try to figure out how to SAFELY play with those feelings. What I are doing can not (consider the crowd I AM dealing with here) be considered 'wrong' it is just that when I AM not consious of what I are doing or why, I can get into real trouble.
fixed it for you

You can not continue to believe and preach that everyone is searching for the danger.  I am glad it worked for you, and it turns you on, but, for many, the things you condone would lead to disaster.  The OP canspeak for her self, but I really do not think she would have come to this board asking for advice in the way she did if it somehow turned her on.




WolfyMontgomery -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 4:24:03 PM)

I lose respect for anyone - Dom and sub and vanilla alike, you can just discard the titles and names if you wanted to - who lies, cheats, steals, or anything of that nature.

The thing that got me to respect Master the most was that he was honest and forthcoming with what he wanted. He wanted control, yes, but he wanted to control me and have me know when I was under his command, not underhandedly trick me into being submissive to him. Master didn't need any subterfuge to get me, he just knew what he wanted and went for it, and his way of going about it was completely honest, not hiding anything. Only things he hides from me are birthday and christmas presents, and any other random surprises he might have - but those surprises aren't "I'm really this way, I just did all this underhanded stuff to trick you into submitting because I wanted you."

Now, if that's the kind of person you want, go for it. I will admit that during scenes we can and often do pull a bit of the predator/pray bit, but that's during scenes, not during a date, not in every day life. It's sexy, it's hot, yes. But we both knew what we were going to get into and do before the scene started, because of honesty and a lack of subterfuge.

Even the man that you stated played this game with you, you knew him for several years before walking into his house and gave him your safeword and all that - in the situation of the OP it was a first date, there was no level of trust between the two that her limits would not be broken, no understanding between the two. In my opinion, that marks the difference between a 'good' predator and a 'bad' predator (if we are using the terms as such) - the one between you and the man was a game, expected, wanted; the one between the OP and the first date was unexpected, not communicated, and not something she wanted.



BonesFromAsh -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 4:30:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clitwhipscream

The leather people I play with then tend to the devious kind. I like a challenge, and I like people who are real. People who are no more afraid to show me the devilish parts of themselves than they are the saintly ones.



Devious –adjective
1. departing from the most direct way; circuitous; indirect: a devious course.
2. without definite course; vagrant: a devious current.
3. departing from the proper or accepted way; roundabout: a devious procedure.
4. not straightforward; shifty or crooked: a devious scheme to acquire wealth.

The vast majority of dominant men I've known, those with a dominant nature and not just who identify in a dominant role, have been very direct, straightforward and upfront about their intentions. This doesn't make them "saintly" but instead makes them honest. I can respect honesty.

Needing to lie, cheat, steal and withhold information to capture the "prey" seems a little more than just "devilish" to me.

Meh, to each their own said the lady as she kissed the cow.



clitwhipscream -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 4:32:32 PM)

BDSM is nothing more than real life made consious.

quote:

I lose respect for anyone - Dom and sub and vanilla alike, you can just discard the titles and names if you wanted to - who lies, cheats, steals, or anything of that nature.


You tell me you know a person who has never done any of those things, you should come over one day and I will show you how I can make pussy out of a hamster.



WolfyMontgomery -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 5:42:55 PM)

You're right, it is extremely rare to find a person that has never lied, cheated, or stole. But there is a pretty big difference in someone who has done it before, and may or may not do it again, but is an overall honest person, and someone who uses those things as a way of life and to get what they want regularly.

I prefer the former. I like honest people, or those who *try* to be honest a very large majority of the time. Those people at least try to have respect enough for themselves to try to do the right thing, be honest with themselves and to other people.

Someone who takes pride in how they can lie, cheat, and trick a girl into the bed on the other hand? If they need to get a girl or boy into bed with them by means of trickery and underhanded schemes, I don't see how they could have much respect for themselves as a person, seeing as they have to be something they are not to get what they want.

I would much prefer a person who is honest about what they want, how they want it, and that they want me. Someone who would offer very innocent things and then use them as a way to cop a feel -- I have no respect for a person like that.

So yes, I lose respect for anyone who lies, cheats, or steals - if you REALLY want me to explain what I mean, it's that I lose respect for anyone who does these things regularly and/or takes pride in doing those things.

I don't like people who *hide* things, if they have something to hide, they can hide it from someone else.

Edited to add: Heck, you tell you know a person who has never told truth, never been honest, and is still living a wonderful, loving life with people who care about him, and I'll show you how to make the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Then again, I suppose you could probably just show me a politician or a CEO or something... but they don't seem very loved to me, just rich as fuck and can buy happiness. So those don't count.



CaringandReal -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 6:39:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

by throwing up the ol' bitch shield.



What does this look like?



BonesFromAsh -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 7:09:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

by throwing up the ol' bitch shield.



What does this look like?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch%20shield

When I googled "bitch shield", I was offered tons of links to sites (those that offer advice on how to seduce a woman or how to be a major pick-up artist) that explained how to "break down the bitch shield".

[8|]



BurntKitty -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 7:57:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal


quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

by throwing up the ol' bitch shield.



What does this look like?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bitch%20shield

When I googled "bitch shield", I was offered tons of links to sites (those that offer advice on how to seduce a woman or how to be a major pick-up artist) that explained how to "break down the bitch shield".

[8|]


I have an image of Capt Kirk ordering the forward bitch shield raised, and  Uhura Sulu demanding an apology.



BonesFromAsh -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/16/2010 8:07:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

I have an image of Capt Kirk ordering the forward bitch shield raised, and  Uhura Sulu demanding an apology.



Okay...now that was just too damn funny!!! Here ya go... Captain Kirk breaking down the bitch shield



hlen5 -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/17/2010 12:15:47 AM)

And another Catain Kirk clip............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbkGPAopC4&feature=related



DesFIP -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/17/2010 4:55:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clitwhipscream

The leather people I play with then tend to the devious kind. I like a challenge, and I like people who are real. People who are no more afraid to show me the devilish parts of themselves than they are the saintly ones.


And how is that more real to choose to lie and cheat your partner than it is to behave with love and respect.

Again, you have affirmed that you deliberately choose partners who lie and manipulate. Since you do so, you lose the right to complain about getting what you wanted. Don't like being lied to and cheated on? Then learn how to pick partners who don't do that. Don't say all dominant males do this only because those are the ones you gravitate towards. Some of us don't do this to our partners and we don't pick partners who do this to us.

But stop smearing every man when what you mean is every man you pick for a relationship.



fellowtraveler -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/17/2010 5:56:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

Well, wolves are predators, and they tend their young when they are helpless and go out of their way to get enough food for them when they would do better for themselves by saving it. ;P
You CAN be a predator without being nasty about it, I would figure.

It's just that the nasty ones are the ones that we tend to notice more.


I am really going to have to disagree with you here. Wolves are predatory by necessity to eat. They are not instinctively cruel and live by standards very different from those human beings live by. A human predator is something very difference, they are a creature that has lost the ability to empathize.... and in my book, that makes them evil. A wolf causes pain because it needs to eat to survive, a human predator causes pain (and I don't mean consensual sadism) to innocent people out of the sheer pleasure of hurting. Not the same thing at all.

I do not believe that dominant men are predators, quite the opposite. We seek to empower our submissives by creating a world for them where they can live out their own need for submission in a safe environment. We protect them, even when we punish it is either for the erotic stimulation of the sub (and us) or to help the submissive feel the reality of the world we create for them. The dominant men that I know (including myself) are the most protective people on earth.... where we do err, it is usually on the side of smothering the submissive with too much protection and stifling her.... something I battle every day. The idea of raping a woman or forcing activity on a non-consenting woman is absolutely abhorrent to me... at least in the strategic sense. Granted, a particular (tactical) punishment may not be to her liking.... but overall (strategically) she has consented to it and continues to consent to it.... the day she does not, it would no longer happen.



Arturas -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/17/2010 6:18:07 AM)

Master's Star,
WTF?!  That he is a rapist? WHAT?  Jesus, you guys really do not know when to let go, it's sad really when you hold on to hate for so long. Master is kind loving strict and fabulous to me, I have never had a better partner in my entire life, that is completely honest. O well like talking to a brick wall.... ~bangs head on desk~  GET OVER IT!  Preditor and prey is just the kinky sex thing, fun yanno like chasing each other around the room, grabbing the hair etc. You guys dislike us so much that you insist on reading EVERYTHING the way you prefer, it is pathetic really.  O well I am totally in love with Master, he takes great care of me and I take great care of Him, He totally spoils my children and we have a great life.... Jealous much?
Master's ~star~



sunshinemiss -> RE: cooth, uncooth whose to say? (11/17/2010 6:30:16 AM)

nm.  not worth it.



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