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Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 8:17:50 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hello folks,
In response to the discussion of more intellectual?  indepth?  threads, I'm putting out something that has been niggling at my brain for a bit.

There are a lot of people on the fora that are "Lifestyle" people.  These are folks who really go with the whole TPE kind of dealio.  (Y'all know I'm down with that - if it makes you happy, nobody is being harmed, hey... have at it!).

I rarely see threads that are about "in the bedroom only" kind of folks.  Where do the Hanky Spankies fit in here? 

What comes up sometimes is the whole Domination / running the relationship thing, and often the folks who are just not into that aren't represented as much. 
The Tops and Bottoms are here, but the norms of the fora (which I did start a thread about recently) are generally about more intensive BDSM type relationships (not more intensive relationships - just ones that are more BDSM dynamically inclined). 

Am I off my rocker here? too sensitive? missing something because of a blind spot?

best,
sunshine


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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 9:10:06 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		From one sunflower to another............
I fit somewhere in-between, it is not just bedroom but it also isn't TPE.
For awhile there, some posters gave the impression that anything less than TPE was 'watering down' their reality. I never understood that, in fact started a thread called 'Flag Football'. My premise was that I doubted that any pro players thought a game in the backyard 'watered down' their games on national TV. .
Recently I have seen less of that attitude, but I think maybe some of that has carried over.
No, I do not think you are 'off your rocker; or too sensitive.'
As one of my guys says, If you're not having fun you are doing it wrong. Some people think only their way is fun and others should do it their way.
Part of it is the whole definition debate which will never be settled! We call ourselves whatever we want to; if it is fun then I say go for it!

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 9:58:30 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		I wonder if there really is a lot of difference between "bedroom D and/or s" and plain ol' vanilla couples into some kink. Seems most of the topics posted at CM are about D/s outside the bedroom and what you're noticing amounts to a supply and demand deficiency. That no-one really asks because bedroom D/s isn't really that complicated...?

Focus.

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 10:50:49 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I have a feeling that you find most of the bedroom only type partaking in the "Ask A Switch" forum. That's just been my experience. I only peek in there from time to time just to see what that is like and I can't really relate so I'm just going by what I see from my occasional forays there.


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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 10:56:39 AM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline 		I think most every time someone asks, "How do I convert my vanilla mate?" on the boards, they are asking about bedroom activities--at least to begin with. This request is very common. These folks generally don't consider themselves switches.

January

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 11:03:00 AM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi sunshinemiss--

From a number of the Domme profiles that I've read recently, there plenty of folks out there who are "bedroom" Dommes only, and are interested in anyone on the "outside" world seeing their kink.  I don't think it's particularly unique--nor do I have any issue whatsoever with it--it's certainly how I lived with my Domme for many years.  Outside world sees me as an outgoing, dominant, work-aggressive leader--they have no idea what I'm like at home.

Those who are quick to denounce others on what is "real" BDSM live are simply insecure and often closeminded, believing that their way is the only way.

Reminds me of a storry (gimme a break, I'm a writer--everything reminds me of a story.....)

A few years back, a local SF woman hired me to clean her flat. I met her at local dungeon (socially)--she was wearing simply a pair of blue jeans and a plain zip up grey sweatshirt, and sneakers.(gasp!)  I remember hearing some new folks (wearing so much leather it looked like they had raided a biker shop) making rude comments that "whoever that is, she isn't really into the scene. she isn't even wearing leather!"  I wondered about this.  I noticed how the experienced players treated her with tremendous respect--obviously they knew something the self-proclaimed "real BDSM players" didn't.

Anyhow, this woman was referred to me because she was cleaning out a rental (we called them vacancy cleanings) and she specifically looked for someone in the community because she didn't feel comfortable hiring a standard cleaning service.  I quickly saw why--her bathroom and walls did have a bit of blood splatter in places, and so I didn't say anything but set to work.

We talked--became friends--and she invited me to come to her place to play. Known affectionately by most as "Jesse Fshhook", she was one of the top play piercers and suspension artists in the bay area.  I had the most extraordinary experiences in her trusted hands, and she was one of the most intense and skilled players I've ever had the pleasure and honor to serve/play with. 

My long-winded tangential point to this--those people so quick to pronounce themselves as "real Dommes/subs" and turn up their nose at others that they deem fake, are often times completely clueless as to what "real'  really does mean.   Sometimes the heaviest hitters are the quiet ones in the grey sweatshirts.

frederich

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 11:24:00 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I wonder if there really is a lot of difference between "bedroom D and/or s" and plain ol' vanilla couples into some kink. Seems most of the topics posted at CM are about D/s outside the bedroom and what you're noticing amounts to a supply and demand deficiency. That no-one really asks because bedroom D/s isn't really that complicated...?

Focus.


Kink in the bedroom fits in perfectly well. If it's less well represented it's likely because maybe there's less to have angst over........OR if it does, it's not raised here.

There's a difference between not fitting in, not joining in and not having anything relevant to say/add. If there's predominantly people who live with TPE here, or who are interested in doing so, it's because they have things to say/ask and are vocal about it.

That's available for everyone.

agirl







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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 1:47:41 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		In years past, some people were afraid to admit that they were anything but hard-core, 24/7, TPE, Uber-Master & no-limits slave, etc., because they would receive flack from the "One True Way" types that looked down their noses at anyone who presented themselves as bedroom-kinky only.

I think this site has done a lot to open minds and promote acceptance of all types, so the kinksters are coming out into the daylight.

Also, some people get online and type a lot of fantasy. Just because you're reading about someone's house and barn full of slaves doesn't mean they actually exist. Online, you can be anybody you want.



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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 2:19:31 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		This is funny, I just started a thread on fetlife complaining about all the hanky spankies out there who don't believe d/s wired people really exist, just that we use it as an excuse to play. I see a lot more of kink only types there, and a lot more power relationship types here. Not that the numbers change, but that they congregate in different places.

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 3:01:56 PM   
NakedSenses


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/26/2010
Status: offline 		This is an always-interesting topic in my personal opinion.
My perspective is that of the "classic Baby Boomer" (1955 ed.)
and my views are mostly drawn form John Warren's famous book 
The Loving Dominant . So I'll post my favorite quotation if I may:

"The only persons who can determine what is right for you and your
partner are the two of you. There is no right or wrong way to do BDSM.
Some dominants like to project a harsh, stern demeanor and keep the
caring sensitivity carefully hidden. Others cherish the role of loving guide
and protector.''

"There is no right or wrong way to do BDSM."
I wonder how many would agree with Warren?
This statement would seem to imply that whether it
is "24/7 TPE" or "bedroom kink" makes no difference.
"I looked at the fetish list, but how can I make a selection.
After all, I've only been doing this for half a century; I'm still learning."
- John Warren, FetLife profile
Thank you for allowing me to contribute to this thread.

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 3:21:33 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Kink in the bedroom fits in perfectly well. If it's less well represented it's likely because maybe there's less to have angst over........OR if it does, it's not raised here.


This is much what I was thinking. I'm somewhere between bedroom(/playspace)-only and 'proper D/s'; not quite either. That means I have no protocol queries, no intricate structural issues, no discipline considerations-nothing, basically, that isn't standard-human enough for me to ask my mum about if I want advice. And who would ask the internet when they could ask my mum?

So prettymuch the only questions I have for these fora are technical or practical.

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 4:17:58 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Am I off my rocker here? too sensitive? missing something because of a blind spot?


I doubt very seriously that you are off your rocker. 

However, you might be missing something.... well, perhaps assuming something.

Unless people come right out and describe their relationship and sexual activities as anything different, I believe there is a presumption that many of the people who post are actually part of some intense BDSM relationship.  Kind of a "guilt by association" thing.

I think you might be surprised by the number of regulars who have only a mild involvement in BDSM and whose everyday lives would never live up to what others might define as an "intensive BDSM relationship".

To be honest, I can't say that Firm and I have any involvement in BDSM.  Not in the traditional "bondage/discipline, sadism/masochism" sense... and only in the dominance/submission sense in that we agreed when we began our relationship that one of us had to be in charge and we both preferred it be him. 

That doesn't mean I have rules.  He doesn't give me orders.  There is no discipline.  We have no protocols.  We don't "scene" or "play".  We don't attend munches or clubs.  He doesn't do "damn-well-what-he-pleases" and I just have to live with it.  I'm anything but quiet and meek.  We try very hard to please each other.  And... it'll be a cold day in hell that we go poly.

What it does mean is that when it comes down to the wire, he has the final say-so in decisions.

As for our sexual proclivities... well... those are private. 

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 4:26:08 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes
In years past, some people were afraid to admit that they were anything but hard-core, 24/7, TPE, Uber-Master & no-limits slave, etc., because they would receive flack from the "One True Way" types
Like most minorities, the BDSM world is quite a bit more restrictive than the larger vanilla world regarding what is and is not "acceptable" within the community norms. My own perception is that actual D/s is not allowed... too scary. Top/bottom is allowed, but not really talked about much... too "play".

I'm often amused when I read posts like this because I've been on the other side of the fence.


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/14/2010 10:30:16 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah... it's the "too play" that I tend to maybe associate here.  Play is fun!  And frankly I've been burned so badly that I don't know if I'll ever entrust someone with decisions again.  I am *still* dealing with the fallout from previous experiences.  (Don't presume to know what I'm talking about, btw). 

I remember when I was dealing with the fellow I loved a few years ago.  He'd say he wanted to go somewhere for dinner, for example.  I'd remind him that he was always frustrated with the parking in that area of town.  Did he want to deal with the frustration he typically had?  He'd say yea or nay, and I'd go along with it - not because he was "leading" but more because I didn't really care one way or the other.  It was important to him, not important to me, so off we went.  There were other things that were important to me - like touch.... he wasn't very touchy feely, and I am - that he just did his best to keep me happy, and he went a bit out of his comfort zone and things were great... of course sometimes it was - look sunshine, I just don't feel like touching sometimes, and it doesn't mean I don't love you.  It just means I need to not touch.  And we found a balance.

I wasn't "submissive" to him... I just loved him.  We had a little private fun here and there, but it was never... He's the LEADER... He just wanted what he wanted more than (or more often than) I did.

I would disagree that people have less angst over this stuff.  I think it's just a self-selecting group, and the people that have the angst just aren't here.  They are busy out there somewhere dealing with the reality of thier angst until they get up the gumption to pop in here.

Best,
sunshine


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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 1:52:55 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I would disagree that people have less angst over this stuff. 

It's not that there's less angst, it's that the angst is less 'BDSM-specific'-the things you talked about in your post are things you could talk to any group of friends you might have about-they don't have to be kinky to understand.


Questions like 'my delta slave and my epsilon slave are arguing about slave pose number six but really they're arguing about how delta hates poly and wants me all to herself but really the only one of these people I actually like is beta who is married to some poor bugger she never has sex with because she's in a secret LDR with me but she still refuses to leave him and please could you fix this, internets?' can really only be asked among kinky people.

Questions like 'how do I balance my need for touch with my partner's need for space?' are much more universal.

No?

<spelling ed>

< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 11/15/2010 1:54:12 AM >

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 4:01:23 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey VC -
I was actually thinking about all the people I've encountered over the years who have a lot of angst about wiitwd.  Women / lesbians who worry about "violence against women" and "is this patriarchal" and the people who worry that it means they are self-abusive or bad feminists or freaks.   After years of working on hotlines, as a therapist, and with sex-ed groups, (not to mention all the co-workers who would pull me aside and say, "I know you know about this weird sex stuff, and I'm kind of worried about something"...I'd say there is a whole lot of angst.  Those are the folks I'm thinking of... the ones who aren't ready to admit, who haven't tried, who are afraid of hte whole thing.  I'm thinking about ...
*wanders I hope you don't mind*  I just read that wanders wrote that she sat out in her car for like 15 minutes when she first went to a munch.  That kind of angst... or rather just before that step ... people who are facing things but not quite ready to admit or actually *do* something... including looking things up on line, meeting people, etc.

sunshine

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 6:00:03 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		That kind of fear is very private, no? I don't think I'd be willing to share that angst with a forum of several thousand strangers if I was suffering from it.

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 6:43:59 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		I think this site has always leaned a bit more toward old guard, and a little less towards new wave kink - general fetishists seem have a harder time harmonizing, given that TPE people tend to be fairly emphatic about their needs, and not particularly sensitive to "hanky-spanky", as you put it, go figure.

Fetlife is more about kink in general, and the fractal nature of the forums means fetishists have an easier time finding those with similar interests, although it does seems less like a community - and in fact, you'll find a larger community of people complaining about the notion that there is any "community" at all, so what can I say, other than it's an imperfect world?

In some sense, my complaint is that it forces you into one camp or the other, i.e., I'm inclined to be a little less formal about it, I think of it as something to do, not a cornerstone of my self image or self esteem, but if I can indulge some of my more outré whims with somebody who get's off on that, what is there to complain about? It's all gravy as far as I'm concerned, so I don't waste a lot of time worrying about what other people do, or with whom - if I'm not in there somewhere, it's pretty much, "how lovely for you". But, at the same time, with the majority majority of subs I've interacted with, it tends to be an all or nothing proposition, and I've drifted more into the TPE camp, specifically to avoid the angsty types you mention - all that fretting gives me a pain.

So, while I do like the sense of community, at the same time, I'm highly resistant to attempts to institutionalize the whole business - that works for people who feel the need to belong to some social structure and know their place in it, but I'm pretty bleh about caste systems, which is what those things always devolve into - I see myself rather more as an explorer of inner space, a noo-naught, exploring the limits of human consciousness - there is no grand design, there's nobody but us chickens - it's just ironically less masturbatory than doing drugs for example.

< Message edited by xssve -- 11/15/2010 6:48:30 AM >

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 7:52:50 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		An interesting question, sunshine...~smiles~.  I am of the camp that prefers D/s 24/7 BUT, as anyone who knows me well can tell you, the intensity of that D/s varies.  There are some rituals and protocol that I like but again, the intensity and amount varies from day to day.  I like to be in control but I have not spent a great deal of time writing up orders for a submissive to follow each and every day, I don't care to micromanage, I enjoy having a submissive partner who feels free to tease me and joke with me and let me know she is horny for me, I enjoy not being called Sir or Master all the time...I LIKE hearing my name or "honey" or "babe" or "sweetheart" or any endearment.  I don't have things constantly going in my head about how this should be done and that should be done...though, as my last submissive would tell you...I do have specific ideas about how CERTAIN things should be done.  Most of that surrounds the 3 Basic Rules and the 1 Basic Premise I have regarding D/s for ME and the one who chooses to engage in it with ME.  Those rules may not work for others...the rules concern civility, courtesy, patience, understanding, and communication.  For some today, courtesy and civility seems out of fashion...shrugs...I like it, "false" veneer or not.  It forces you to use your brain and extends your patience level and saves a lot of hurt feelings while still getting things accomplished if the communication is forced to be made clearer without the intent of hurting someone or expressing anger any which way you feel without regard to the consequences. 

But...I look at those things and other than going through the structure of them with a potential partner, I realized that this is what MOST people expect from their relationships with people they deal with each day, whether vanilla or D/s-related.  A person cannot avoid all the hurt of relationships...be it casual, serious, friend or lover...but it can be minimized.  A person cannot avoid all the anger of dealing with tough issues...but it can be made useful and constructive instead of destructive.

That said, I have no problem with those who only want to be kinky in the bedroom and indulge in little D/s outside the bedroom.  I have been in a relationship where, due to various factors, the D/s was actually on the mild side.  One of the smallest areas of conflict for us was her thinking iout was too much and my thinking it was too little...sort of like your situation in that aspect...until the other factors blew up that difference between us.  But I've also had that problem in a couple of vanilla relationships, oddly enough from the other angle...me thinking she wanted me to be in more control than I wanted and her thinking I didn't involve myself enough in her life. 

These boards do seem to take on more of the "life-centered" D/s than the bedroom variety but I don't know how to change that.  Partially because the people with the "life" D/s and not just "bedroom D/s and BDSM" (please note that "just" is not used in a derogatory fashion here) seem to have more questions that need answering...or perhaps they are just more bold.  Remember too that, as someone else noted, while there are be those who engage in "life" D/s on here, the intensity and depth and construction of those dynamics varies from someone like Mercnbeth to Knight and His girls to Resident Sadist and everhope to holly/Jim to Catize and her guys to Firm and Treasure. Perhaps the way to add to the mix is to bring questions like yours to the board more often...those questions centered around "bedroom D/s" OR  perhaps approach the mods and asking them about setting up a forum for bedroom or play types.  They've opened up other forums on here...perhaps a well-expressed letter might work to open up a forum entitled "Bedroom D/s and BDSM Only".  An area where some of the hits taken by bedroom-only types on the general forums would not be allowed.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 11/15/2010 7:54:21 AM >

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RE: Hanky Spanky - 11/15/2010 8:04:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I think what you might be missing (if you're missing anything at all) is that bedroom only D/s doesn't have that much of a different element of issues that crop up in comparison to the vanilla crowd.  It really boils down to the same issues that people have regarding their sex life.  You've got interest/non interest of certain activities (which is pretty much covered by folks with compatibility with more expanded D/s) and those who have frequency issues (one person having a greater/lesser appetite than their partner, which even vanilla couples might deal with).  In a sense, it already gets covered by the 24/7 types.



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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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