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RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 5:29:54 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
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quote:

2. A letter clearly stating what your seeking, NOT some FORM LETTER.


Okaaaayyy, lemme take a breath before I really lose it....
What the %$^# is wrong with a form letter if the person has taken the time to write one???? If the person sits down and ponders what he/she wants a new person to know from the beginning about what they seek and what they offer???? I mean, COME ON ALREADY.... I have a long "form letter" designed to help someone know what I'm looking for, what my life is like now and what I'm hoping to achieve in life (not just within the potential relationship). I share anecdotes and details in order to give the person a chance to read my personality, not just a list of things I do/don't do in the dungeon. I am a person and I assume that the person receiving the email is a person too. A person who gets my "form letter" can take five minutes and know easily if I am someone they might want to take a closer look at.
 
I think some of the people on this site (and others) needs to get a reality check....
 
I hate the emails where I get nothing but "hello, how are you?" from some stranger that is indistinguishable from all the other strangers out there, and people are complaining about form letters... Shheeeshhhh!
 
Thank you for listening.
Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
 

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 6:44:52 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

quote:

2. A letter clearly stating what your seeking, NOT some FORM LETTER.


Okaaaayyy, lemme take a breath before I really lose it....
What the %$^# is wrong with a form letter if the person has taken the time to write one???? If the person sits down and ponders what he/she wants a new person to know from the beginning about what they seek and what they offer???? I mean, COME ON ALREADY.... I have a long "form letter" designed to help someone know what I'm looking for, what my life is like now and what I'm hoping to achieve in life (not just within the potential relationship). I share anecdotes and details in order to give the person a chance to read my personality, not just a list of things I do/don't do in the dungeon. I am a person and I assume that the person receiving the email is a person too. A person who gets my "form letter" can take five minutes and know easily if I am someone they might want to take a closer look at.
 
I think some of the people on this site (and others) needs to get a reality check....
 
I hate the emails where I get nothing but "hello, how are you?" from some stranger that is indistinguishable from all the other strangers out there, and people are complaining about form letters... Shheeeshhhh!
 
Thank you for listening.
Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
 


A form letter indicates fairly strongly that the person sending it has little or no interest in the person to whom it was sent and is simply "shotgunning" based on gender, orientation and body temperature (sometimes only one of these).

Most people hope that something in them, beyond the big three, has created an interest in another, and if someone wants a response to an initial mailing, that message should indicate what has created this interest.

Now, there's nothing wrong with with starting a commercial relationship with a form letter.  I just received one via snailmail (I do tend to ignore commercial email) from a guy who wants to clean my room.  It has his qualifications and an estimate of how much the job will cost.  I may well hire his firm, but this isn't a personal relationship.

Form letters tell the recipient "you are just one of a few dozen/hundred/thousand email addresses I've compiled and if you respond I may or may not get back to you." 

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 6:53:30 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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On form letters:
I can see an initial form letter, why not? There is plenty of time afterward to flesh things out if the person even bothers to reply at all. An initial contact may be lost, peremptorily directed to the junk folder, etc - why waste time until a mutual interest is at least established?

And as Calandra has already pointed out, the form letter in question could be a very complete personal statement. Why should it be personalized for a person I don't even know yet? I'm sure to add a few extra details as to why I am interested in a particular person, but the idea of going into extensive details seems absurd absent some indication of reciprocal interest.



_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 6:53:49 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
A form letter indicates fairly strongly that the person sending it has little or no interest in the person to whom it was sent and is simply "shotgunning" based on gender, orientation and body temperature (sometimes only one of these).

Most people hope that something in them, beyond the big three, has created an interest in another, and if someone wants a response to an initial mailing, that message should indicate what has created this interest.


I guess this is where we differ... My "form letter" begins at the second (or third) paragraph. I will write a brief "Hi, My name is Kathryn, and I noticed so and so on your profile (or forum) that piqued my interest. I've pre-written a little about myself to help you get to know me better. I'd love to hear from you afterwards... then the "form" part of the letter...
 
When I suggest that others pre-write a letter, I usually suggest that they write a personal beginning such as the one above...
 
(By the way, My copy of "The Loving Dominant" is so dog eared and hilighted I need to replace it... Thank you for such a wonderful resource to the community!)

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 7:04:09 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
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I write to people,-not corporations.

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 7:49:42 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: knotnilla
The basic building blocks of relationships are the same in both D/s and vanilla relationships


Ideally, maybe...

I'd say most vanilla relationships are characterized by mistrust, miscommunication, and dishonesty. While BDSM based relationships may be no better I think there is a far greater likelihood that they will operate quite differently than the average vanilla relationship - and I really do think that most vanilla people rely upon a fabric of lies to get along whereas in this world we try to rely upon a set of truths.



Uhmm...BAD relationships are built on mistrust, miscommunication, and dishonesty. This does not, in my eyes, have anything to do with the structure of the relationship, be it vanilla, gay, D/s. The things knotilla mentioned are still the fundamental building blocks of a good relationship.

By the way, most of us have seen D/s relationships that were not any more honest simply because the partners were into BDSM. I don't think being into BDSM automatically ensures that you embrace the ideals we are talking about. You've never had a sub lie? Never known of a dom who cheated?

As for shared desires...You don't feel it's important that a dominant who is into shibari would be happier with a sub who was really into being tied up with rope?

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 7:53:54 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

On form letters:
I can see an initial form letter, why not? There is plenty of time afterward to flesh things out if the person even bothers to reply at all. An initial contact may be lost, peremptorily directed to the junk folder, etc - why waste time until a mutual interest is at least established?

And as Calandra has already pointed out, the form letter in question could be a very complete personal statement. Why should it be personalized for a person I don't even know yet? I'm sure to add a few extra details as to why I am interested in a particular person, but the idea of going into extensive details seems absurd absent some indication of reciprocal interest.


~chuckles~ Thank You!
 
Chaingang gets it, why duddn't anyboddee else get it????? ~Laughs~

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 8:03:20 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline
I got it,for you. It's just not my way of doing things.

Viva la differance.

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 8:11:52 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Ain't we havin' this discussion in two places at once????? LOL
Gotta love the internet.....

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 8:13:01 AM   
Reasonable


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mmhmmm

(in reply to Calandra)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 1:11:27 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
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So she wants some smuck to pay all the bills and wants to run his life with passive-aggressive whining and threats while firmly gripping him by his shorties..sounds very much like a majority of conventional women. What I don't understand is why don't women like the below simply use eHarmony or match.com to find their "Prince". I can't see men who as a general rule damn near make a fetish out of their own independence putting up with that bullshit. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

And again...

quote:

Update: Im still paddling along, I've decided to give up on the getting fit idea - so all chocolates and packets of crisps gratefully accepted hehehehe


Great! Everyone loves a quitter!

quote:

I am looking for someone to completely enfold my life, treat me well and I will hand you my soul. Treat me badly and I have the ability to rip your head off and sh*t down your neck.


Yeah, that's not too passive-aggressive or anything...

quote:

My soul is precious to me so please tread carefully...I am clever and articulate and will NOT be treated like a mindless idiot....


But...but...but...you REALLY come across like a mindless idiot.

quote:

...it will save me the job of having to sh*t down your neck.


Where have I heard this before...?

quote:

Ohhh and all that said, I'm a really nice person!


Cool, because it's really hard to tell from all of the threats to shit down people's necks.

quote:

3) I have young children, they don't need a new grandad and neither do I (No OAPs please).
4) I wont be your live in maid, I look wonderful in the outfit but I can't and will not cook and clean.


Okay, so I am your sugar-daddy and you provide no services in return. Here, why don't I just write you a check and we can skip the relationship?

quote:

7) Ohhhhh and im still a nice person MUWAHHHH xxxx


Um...what's your evidence? Shitting down people's decapitated necks?

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 1:18:58 PM   
MsMacComb


Posts: 808
Joined: 3/30/2005
From: My Mothers womb.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
So she wants some smuck to pay all the bills and wants to run his life with passive-aggressive whining and threats while firmly gripping him by his shorties..sounds very much like a majority of conventional women. What I don't understand is why don't women like the below simply use eHarmony or match.com to find their "Prince". I can't see men who as a general rule damn near make a fetish out of their own independence putting up with that bullshit. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
  

Exactly. The above is often known as conventional marriage.

_____________________________

Not looking for anyone for anything, any time.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 1:30:43 PM   
Surrendering2u


Posts: 56
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline
WOW this is some really dum shit !!!

(in reply to MsMacComb)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 1:50:27 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

So she wants some smuck to pay all the bills and wants to run his life with passive-aggressive whining and threats while firmly gripping him by his shorties..sounds very much like a majority of conventional women. What I don't understand is why don't women like the below simply use eHarmony or match.com to find their "Prince". I can't see men who as a general rule damn near make a fetish out of their own independence putting up with that bullshit. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

And again...

quote:

Update: Im still paddling along, I've decided to give up on the getting fit idea - so all chocolates and packets of crisps gratefully accepted hehehehe


Great! Everyone loves a quitter!

quote:

I am looking for someone to completely enfold my life, treat me well and I will hand you my soul. Treat me badly and I have the ability to rip your head off and sh*t down your neck.


Yeah, that's not too passive-aggressive or anything...

quote:

My soul is precious to me so please tread carefully...I am clever and articulate and will NOT be treated like a mindless idiot....


But...but...but...you REALLY come across like a mindless idiot.

quote:

...it will save me the job of having to sh*t down your neck.


Where have I heard this before...?

quote:

Ohhh and all that said, I'm a really nice person!


Cool, because it's really hard to tell from all of the threats to shit down people's necks.

quote:

3) I have young children, they don't need a new grandad and neither do I (No OAPs please).
4) I wont be your live in maid, I look wonderful in the outfit but I can't and will not cook and clean.


Okay, so I am your sugar-daddy and you provide no services in return. Here, why don't I just write you a check and we can skip the relationship?

quote:

7) Ohhhhh and im still a nice person MUWAHHHH xxxx


Um...what's your evidence? Shitting down people's decapitated necks?



Precisely. With a marriage behind me and two daughters, I really don't want to be some knight in shining armour bringing home the bacon every week to be bitched at that I don't pay her enough attention after working my rocks off all day.

I'm in pretty good condition for my age and while I wouldn't say I'm the most handsome man on the planet, I'm certainly far from being the ugliest. I've had a good education and my wallet is thick enough and I have a pretty good life style. I'm not going to give that up for someone who over values herself and wants to bleed me dry.

I'm in the life style for good company, intellectual discourse and KINK. If I wanted anything else I would spend my time elsewhere and not at kink venues.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 2:24:24 PM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
From letters are fine as long as something personal / relevant is added first.
Re unattractive sub summaries of their requirements, it's like any advertisement - you need to show what you can give. People above  refer to subs who want to be financially  supported on their own terms. Some men want that. I work and always will work and I think I make that clear on my profile but for some men that of course is offputting. The main thing is to show how you are so someone can make an initial assessment and the email or profile doesn't mislead someone.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/1/2006 4:26:19 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
Another hint:

Photos.

There are lots of stuff that you can discuss about photos.  You can get into arguments about the old "You must have a photo in your profile or I won't answer your email." requirement, and all that ... but this point isn't about that argument.

This is about what a submissive woman wants from a dominant man, and how she lets photos do her talking.

So, ok, men are more attacted to the visual.  Visual has an impact that words can never have.  A pretty, shapely woman in a picture often shuts off the higher reasoning facualties of a man, and causes him to go into cardiac arrest.  Provocative poses and exposed flesh compounds this reaction, making it difficult for all but the most composed, and controlled men to initate a conversation based on anything other than the fleshy stimuli.

So what does the woman generally get when she posts those types of photos?

You got it.  Horny, brain-dead, gasping, illiterate (at least temporarily) horn dogs and players.

And then she complains about all the HNGs and wannabes?

Give me a break.

Oh, sure, she may also get emails from the type of dom she says she wants - they aren't proof against a pretty face and fetching body - but most likely they will get buried in the email avalanche.

There is nothing wrong with a woman posting photos like that, especially if she is just looking for a play partner, and an attractive one at that, who isn't really interested in what she thinks, and she isn't really interested in what he thinks.

Now, if what she is interested in is the character of the man, or dom first, and primarily, then such photos are a hindrance, not a help.  Dispense with them.

Does that mean no photos at all?  No, not at all.  We are all well aware that photo profiles are the first searched and found.  That they are used by this site, and other sites as advertisement (so the slinky sexy photos are encouraged - sometimes to the detriment of any individual woman).

To me, there are two things that I want to see in a public photo of a woman that I might be considering approaching:
 
1. Her face.
2. Her general body form.

Faces are one of the most important things about a person.  It's what you are going to be seeing a lot of, and how your mind categorizes and sorts the people you know.  There are all kinds of tells about a person's history in their face- at least that you will unconsciously believe, even if you know a different history of the person.  A face gives you a picture in your mind to latch onto when or if you start to email and chat.

A beautiful (to me) face can outweigh a lot of other bodily inperfections.

I'm also looking at how she presents herself in the photos, and how much effort she may have taken.  It doesn't have to be a lot of work, and I guess it's more a judgement about whether her tastes may match mine.  There are a lot of cam photos at there, and some of them are ok. Most of them, however, simply suck.  A "glamour shot" is also a turn-off to me, no matter what she looks like.  I've SEEN women before and after glamour shots, and often it simply isn't pretty, so glamour shots make me hesitant.

Of course, she could simply not post any photos at all, and many women do make that decision.  And it's actually a pretty good one, but much harder on her in the sense that she will get a lot less attention.  But ... does she really want the type of attention that having photos gives?  Giving a couple of photos with the first email or two pretty much gives all the benefits I covered above.

But if she doesn't put any photos on her profile, it is simply critical that she address her physical attributes in some positive way.  No, she doesn't have to put her measurements on her profile, although that is certainly appreciated.  She should at least give a general overview about her general fitness, body type, and perhaps hair length and color.  For the simple reason that all of these things maybe pretty good indicators - in an intellectual sense - that helps a man make a swag decision of whether or not the possiblity of attaction exists.

She must also have a more detailed profile.  She must put more than a sentence or two into it, and be specific.

Now, let me say it crudely.

If a woman puts several sexy photos on her profile, and little written information, she gives me the impression of an empty-headed little twit, who has floated through life based simply on her appearance.  Shallow, no depth, and of no interest to me, even if I find her visually attractive and sexy.

If she doesn't have any photos, and not much in her profile, she is still an empty headed little twit, but an ugly empty headed little twit.

There are exceptions, I'm sure.  The woman who has a special situation, or such, and that's fine, these are simply generalizations based on observations.  But aren't generalizations all you have to go on, when you are browsing profiles?

FHky

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/2/2006 1:25:49 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Ok, guys. That should get you started. Try a little harder next time, will ya?


We don't need too sweetie, after all, you lovely little subs are there to help, right?


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/2/2006 1:31:04 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
Uhmm...BAD relationships are built on mistrust, miscommunication, and dishonesty. This does not, in my eyes, have anything to do with the structure of the relationship, be it vanilla, gay, D/s.


Yep, you pretty much nailed that one sweetie. Dishonesty is the real big one IMO for any relationship type, loose the trust, you've lost the relationship and once its broken it is a real bitch to put back together again.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/2/2006 2:00:37 AM   
DarkSideOfThMoon


Posts: 117
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
Doms seem to say what they don't want too....Is that okay?

re. Photos. I was getting way too many messages. If i choose to message someone however, I attatch a photo...

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: A "hint" for "subs" looking for... - 5/2/2006 3:27:07 AM   
dirtydiamond


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline
Well said! 

(in reply to Surrendering2u)
Profile   Post #: 120
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