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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 4:29:53 AM   
GreedyTop


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YAY ME!!

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 7:14:19 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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I'm going to step up here, and play devil's advocate (of a sort). Why? Because I have personally known the women that an organization like Immediate Family has helped. I've seen the good that a group of BDSM/Ds/Ms aware individuals can provide to someone who finds themselves in a bad situation because they met and moved in with someone who claimed to be a Master who turned out to be an abusive asshole. Yes, there are a kazillion criticisms and judgments we can pass on those situations, but what it boils down to is a hurting, needing human being needed help.

First, the people that need a Safe Haven, aren't lost. They didn't need training. They needed help! They needed assistance in getting out of abusive/unsafe environments. Basically, the kinky version of a Domestic Violence, Women's Shelter.

I'm not in support of what the OP states is their motivation for Safe Houses. Mostly because it sounds like they are proposing a training camp or some sort of subbie warehouse

If Immediate Family were up and running today, I would definitely offer up my home as a Safe House. I believed very strongly in the organization's core mission, and saw the good it did.

WinD

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 8:23:29 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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~Fast Reply after reading the first 4-5 responses~

WOW... there is a lot of negativity and hostility to this idea, and I'm not sure where that is coming from. Are we -really- so cynical that we would have to assume that anyone offering to provide this kind of assistance to the community MUST be a predator? Really?.

As some of you know, and as I've mentioned in other posts, I essentially do this, and have done it for a number of years, in a MUCH less formal way, as a pastoral-care provider who specializes in support for the fetish, BDSM, and authority-dynamic communities. We've provided 'safe-house' environments for those who are trying to exit a relationship that is dangerous and untenable. Honestly, it would be NICE to have a couple more places like this available in our own community, and any community that can get people who are willing to do this are fortunate, IMO, because things -do- happen.

That being said, from my experience, if one is going to do something like this, one needs to be prepared for certain realities:

1. Those entering into asylum are NOT going to be interested in anything other than staying safe and healing from trauma. Therefore, there is a need for someone with some background in mental/emotional well-being, -and- in dealing with complex and traumatic emotional situations. While having familiar activities (and the opportunity to provide service for those whose self-perception revolves around that kind of service mindset) is important, it is really unlikely, IMO, to be a successful time to incorporate -training-, as learning new things doesn't mesh well with trying to heal from an intensely traumatic experience.

2. Being prepared to handle things like suicidal behaviors, psychotic/traumatic breakdowns, broadly disseminated rage, etc., are vital. These situations -will- cause upheaval in a household, and they are virtually guaranteed in a safe-house situation, as the individuals who come into such places deal with their trauma, heal, and experience the normal range of emotions that grief and sudden release from abuse/danger will bring to the surface.

3. Most people who end a relationship aren't going to come to a safe-house. The ones who do will most likely be leaving REALLY bad situations -- and the person(s) that they're leaving may be only a few steps behind them! Some kind of security and/or a good relationship with law enforcement is a MUST.

4. You will undergo a -great- deal of scrutiny from within the community, and that scrutiny will be ongoing for as long as you're involved in providing asylum. This is a good thing, IMO, as it keeps those of us who are providing resources like this honest -- but believe me, every mistake you make (and you -will- make mistakes) will be splattered all over the community within what seems like -moments-, and it will take a long time to restore your name if things go -really- wrong. Not ONLY the behaviors towards those seeking asylum with you will be put on the block -- so will the way that you interact in the community, AND how people perceive your private relationships. EVERYTHING comes under scrutiny.

5. You will need to develop a thick skin -and- a capacity to accept constructive criticism. Sometimes, in the depths of that "emotional Knight" frame of mind, it is very difficult to see that one is, in fact, exacerbating an individuals problems rather than solving them -- if unable to listen to the voices from outside who see where our blind spots are, providing a safe-house can do much more harm than good.

6. Make sure you have professionals in the community with whom you can work: Try to have as broad a selection as possible among police, psychologists, psychiatrists, ministers, doctors, mid-level providers (Physician Assistants/Certified Nurse Practitioners/ Paramedics), lawyers, judges, etc. who have been carefully educated to a kink-aware, and kink-accepting frame of mind. You will -definitely- need them, and so will those who seek asylum with you.

7. Realize that this will impact everything about your life. You will no longer be able to count on a full night's sleep, a weekend away, vacations, etc. People will come to count on you, and until you can develop a network with whom you can coordinate, you will need to make sure that what you OFFER, you can PRODUCE -- namely, if you call yourself a 'safe house', you must be available when people need you -- which may not be convenient, timely, or even allow you the time to go to the bathroom or sit down to a meal. On the other hand, you may find that you go MONTHS between situations that require your attention... and then you have FAR too many to handle all in the same week. Again, this is just part of the process, and making sure that you have places and people that you can refer to, and who can back you up... and that you have plenty to keep you busy without possibly preventing you from responding if you -are- needed when things are slow is all part of finding balance when offering such a service.

8. The hardest part of this, at least for me, has always been the whole "this person no longer wants my help, so I need to let go and let them move on from here on their own -- even if I don't agree with their choices" thing... it's tough, and it comes up a lot. Letting that person who came running to you for help leave with the person xhe was running from is really HARD.. and for me, it leaves me worrying for -weeks- about how that person is going to manage from this point on, or, in some cases, whether xhe'll wait too long to seek out my help the next time... but one thing that was made REALLY clear to me during my training is that, while I am responsible for those in my care when I am providing pastoral care, once that person chooses to leave my care, I am -required- ethically, to accept their free-will to do so... and it -does- hurt, and we -do- wonder if we could have done something differently... and sometimes, when things go all runny-floating-crap, we wonder if we couldn't have MADE that person stay in the safe-house or stay with the therapist, or whatever... but in the end, free-will provides the limit to our interventions, and sometimes, that just straight-out SUCKS.

That's all I can think of for now.
Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 11/20/2010 8:37:16 AM >


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 8:27:09 AM   
GreedyTop


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Calla.. if I am not mistaken, several other people have made the same points.  Just sayin...

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 8:29:03 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Calla.. if I am not mistaken, several other people have made the same points.  Just sayin...


Sorry -- I came in at the end of the discussion... should have noted that it was a Fast Reply -- I'll do that now.


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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 8:30:27 AM   
GreedyTop


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*grins* hope you all are well :)

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 9:32:26 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I'm going to step up here, and play devil's advocate (of a sort). Why? Because I have personally known the women that an organization like Immediate Family has helped. I've seen the good that a group of BDSM/Ds/Ms aware individuals can provide to someone who finds themselves in a bad situation because they met and moved in with someone who claimed to be a Master who turned out to be an abusive asshole. Yes, there are a kazillion criticisms and judgments we can pass on those situations, but what it boils down to is a hurting, needing human being needed help.

First, the people that need a Safe Haven, aren't lost. They didn't need training. They needed help! They needed assistance in getting out of abusive/unsafe environments. Basically, the kinky version of a Domestic Violence, Women's Shelter.

I'm not in support of what the OP states is their motivation for Safe Houses. Mostly because it sounds like they are proposing a training camp or some sort of subbie warehouse

If Immediate Family were up and running today, I would definitely offer up my home as a Safe House. I believed very strongly in the organization's core mission, and saw the good it did.

WinD


Thanks for clarifying this. When I read safe house, this is what I thought of. Reading the OP makes it sound like he is rescuing all those poor widdle submissives who are single, because after all, how can we survive with out a dom to tell us what to do Immediate family seemed to target women who really needed help and anyone who has been to whipstock can tell you, they also know how to throw one hell of a party


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 9:36:08 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
after all, how can we survive with out a dom to tell us what to do


I can't speak for all submissives, but I've known a lot who practice for this possibility by ignoring everything I say. 


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 9:39:25 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

WOW... there is a lot of negativity and hostility to this idea, and I'm not sure where that is coming from. Are we -really- so cynical that we would have to assume that anyone offering to provide this kind of assistance to the community MUST be a predator? Really?.

As some of you know, and as I've mentioned in other posts, I essentially do this, and have done it for a number of years, in a MUCH less formal way, as a pastoral-care provider who specializes in support for the fetish, BDSM, and authority-dynamic communities. We've provided 'safe-house' environments for those who are trying to exit a relationship that is dangerous and untenable. Honestly, it would be NICE to have a couple more places like this available in our own community, and any community that can get people who are willing to do this are fortunate, IMO, because things -do- happen.


Had he suggested this for people in dangerous environments, I would totally agree. But he didn't, he said "We would like to pose a question to those who are lost.. to those without a Master or Mistress.."

Sorry, but I just don't see being single equating to being lost. Now there were times after I broke up with my ex, that I needed a friend to talk to and things to distract me, but I was a long way from needing a safe house.


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 9:40:36 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
after all, how can we survive with out a dom to tell us what to do


I can't speak for all submissives, but I've known a lot who practice for this possibility by ignoring everything I say. 



that is just sad, I would never ignore you like that

Maybe you should move to Detroit?


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 3:18:11 PM   
WolfyMontgomery


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Somewhat fast reply

In some ways... the idea of a kinky retreat for single subs sounds neat, so long as it was more like a... vacation spot I guess you could say. Where it's not "poor lost defenseless subbies" that go, but just girls that want to let loose, in a controlled environment, where they don't have to worry about meeting someone new if they don't have access to a dungeon, because those people working there are held by the law to only do what the person wants done to them, or something. Maybe even add a section for the Doms, with some submissives that work there, or something... maybe. Make it a kinky singles resort!

But no, a 'safe haven' for poor lost subs who don't know what to do with themselves when they're single (I don't know any like that, including myself, though I will admit that I'm scatterbrained to high heaven without proper management) is NOT a good idea, especially if there's rules specific for the house but not for the subs themselves. Though they'd probably be shut down and/or arrested as soon as the first sub came along and went "Holy sh%$ WTF?"

But if I was single, and wanted a vacation? I'd totally go to a kinky singles resort ;P


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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 5:58:00 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Had he suggested this for people in dangerous environments, I would totally agree. But he didn't, he said "We would like to pose a question to those who are lost.. to those without a Master or Mistress.."

Sorry, but I just don't see being single equating to being lost. Now there were times after I broke up with my ex, that I needed a friend to talk to and things to distract me, but I was a long way from needing a safe house.



My thoughts exactly. The sad thing is I see these pathetic posts all the time from single submissives, how they are lost and looking for "their One" and it sort of makes me sick.

I sorta feel bad for the guy, I don't think he knows what he's getting into, the idea of a house full of overly needy, clingy, low self esteem bitches makes me shudder, especially after the first month or so when their cycles start aligning.

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:02:27 PM   
anniezz338


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WolfyMontgomery

Somewhat fast reply

In some ways... the idea of a kinky retreat for single subs sounds neat, so long as it was more like a... vacation spot I guess you could say. Where it's not "poor lost defenseless subbies" that go, but just girls that want to let loose, in a controlled environment, where they don't have to worry about meeting someone new if they don't have access to a dungeon, because those people working there are held by the law to only do what the person wants done to them, or something. Maybe even add a section for the Doms, with some submissives that work there, or something... maybe. Make it a kinky singles resort!

But if I was single, and wanted a vacation? I'd totally go to a kinky singles resort ;P



Me too. Let's go find some investors....get this going now. lol

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:16:42 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I think the problem here is going to be three things.

For starters, what makes YOU safe (in the eyes of someone who doesn't know you)? If Carol and I were to break up, what makes you think that she would see YOU as someplace safe and intimate to draw emotional comfort from. Isn't that what friends are for?

Second, what makes you think that your view on M/s would be even remotely compatible with anyone elses? Just a quick glance at your profile suggests that Carol would find your household highly troubling.

Finally, most functioning adults I know have a life which includes things like a job, friends, a house, commitments of various sorts, etc. They can't just go hairing off across the country when they choose to even if they wanted to. The kind of people (in my age bracket) who CAN do such a thing... well... I'd have a lot of concerns about inviting most of them into my house.

I'm going to add a fourth to this and I certainly agree with the first three.

Fourth! What in the world make you think that I'm so weak and feeble that I'm lost when I'm without a Master? What makes you think that I can't survive a break up? What makes you think that the best thing for someone that has just gone through a break up is to go somewhere and get trained?

You've just stereotyped submissives into being non-functioning, weak, and incapable without having a D type in their life. Shame on you.

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:24:19 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
You've just stereotyped submissives into being non-functioning, weak, and incapable without having a D type in their life. Shame on you.


Well to be fair...have you seen some of the shit that submissives post?

There would definitely be a market for the OP's idea, which will lead to the inevitable posts in the ask a sub forum of "went to safe house, think the guy is The One. now i are lost w/o him what i do????"

Either that or "went to safe house, guy wants to see me nekkid I HAS NO JUDGEMENT SKILLS IS THIS NORMAL??"

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:27:14 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
I've seen the good that a group of BDSM/Ds/Ms aware individuals can provide to someone who finds themselves in a bad situation because they met and moved in with someone who claimed to be a Master who turned out to be an abusive asshole.
And I'm absolutely positive that the last thing someone leaving an abusive situation would need is "a place to go, a place to learn, to train and feel safe..a safe haven of sorts..a place where you will work and learn to be the best slave/sub you can be..."
 
I'm all for a safe place that understands D/s M/s and BDSM for those escaping abusive relationships....I'm against something wrapped up in BDSM "training" and hinting that subs without D types are lost.




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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:31:35 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
You've just stereotyped submissives into being non-functioning, weak, and incapable without having a D type in their life. Shame on you.


Well to be fair...have you seen some of the shit that submissives post?

There would definitely be a market for the OP's idea, which will lead to the inevitable posts in the ask a sub forum of "went to safe house, think the guy is The One. now i are lost w/o him what i do????"

Either that or "went to safe house, guy wants to see me nekkid I HAS NO JUDGEMENT SKILLS IS THIS NORMAL??"
True. But they'd be the same in a vanilla relationship.

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 6:50:17 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

And I'm absolutely positive that the last thing someone leaving an abusive situation would need is "a place to go, a place to learn, to train and feel safe..a safe haven of sorts..a place where you will work and learn to be the best slave/sub you can be..."
 
I'm all for a safe place that understands D/s M/s and BDSM for those escaping abusive relationships....I'm against something wrapped up in BDSM "training" and hinting that subs without D types are lost.





Definitely agree with you.

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 7:06:03 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

....


Every single word of what you said resonates truth, and reflects my experience/observations on the situation as well.

I think what you do, is remarkable; very much needed and I wish there were more people and places like YOU and your household that individuals who need help can turn to.

I know its been said that most will turn to friends, BUT, the reality for those in controlling abusive relationships is this: part of the controlling behavior of an abuser is to alienate the person from friends and family. Often times, by the time the abuse escalates into a dangerous situation, the one needing to escape is at a place in their life where there simply is not anyone around that they can turn to.

Now, take that isolated feeling of desperation and isolation, and add the element of Ds or Ms. It is hard to even share just how hopeless the situation can seem to many. Not only does the individual have to struggle against the guilt of leaving someone they love, but they have to struggle against the mindset that they somehow deserve what is being done to them. There's a lot of internal angst going on. Most of the time, depression is a factor and all the mental 'fog' that goes with it.

Anyway, a Safe House respite for those escaping abusive BDSM/Ds/Ms relationships is a very GOOD service that can be provided, when it is done ethically. I support the concept of it 100% and have immense respect for those who step up and provide any sort of service to those in need.

WinD

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RE: Safe House? - 11/20/2010 7:39:02 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

<snipped>

Anyway, a Safe House respite for those escaping abusive BDSM/Ds/Ms relationships is a very GOOD service that can be provided, when it is done ethically. I support the concept of it 100% and have immense respect for those who step up and provide any sort of service to those in need.

WinD


^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^

But let's all be perfectly clear.  I'm sure we can all agree that escaping an abusive relationship is first and foremost.  What  the OP might be hypothesizing is a D/s, M/s  aware / sensitive element added to the safe-house concept.  <Lance almost always gives people the benefit of the doubt.  Sometimes to a fault, which may be case here.>

Well, yeah.... great idea - a BDSM-aware safe house, helping battered women but realizing that BDSM is sometimes mistaken for battering.  Well, guess what, OP?  Maybe, just maybe the psychologists and others helping such women ARE aware.

Sex is a difficult subject for anyone abused and needing a SafeHouse (in the traditional sense.)  And in the priority list... about 999 out of 1,000.

And that reminds me - an objection that others over-looked.  Just how are first responders suppposed to know "Oh, this one is involved in BDSM; that one isn't"  when the abusive wounds / marks are identical?  Or equivalently, an abused person involved in BDSM simply won't reveal that to the service provider at ANY point.  Or, again equivalently, how will the abused person know "Oh, I need to go shelter XYZ since I'm into BDSM as well as being abused and they understand such things better."  I almost typed LOL, but this is the real deal.....

We ALL agree BDSM and abuse are different..... Keep them separate in your own head, would you please, OP?  Thanks.




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