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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 9:57:47 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Why would that be?

Because it might limit their profits?

Maybe that is one of the reasons why we pay out the ass for health care!!!!!


What do you have against Doctors making a profit? They only save lives after all....I guess in your fantasy land, they should do it out of the kindness of they're hearts.



So do policemen, which I believe you mentioned you are, or were.

Explain the difference to me.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/19/2010 10:00:34 AM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 9:59:51 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

so, here we are talking around 1, 5996 pounds or so (including the two visits) at a minimum.

what is the average a doctor makes over there? (please convert to dollars, since most nutsuckers here are not clever with calculations).  I suspect it is less than our poverty rate if the nutsuckers are correct.


I really have no idea what a General Practitioner makes but they tend to drive around in middle of the road cars.
Consultants make around a 100K a year or nearly $160,000.

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 10:04:35 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Hi Brian

If you have followed my posts you would know i am for health care reform...even Obamacare... at least it is worth a try...BUT...notice how many of these universal health care countries are on the brink of bankruptcy.

I'm not sure America can afford universal healthcare..at least without abdicating its status as a world power. If we were to pull a few hundred billion from defense we could afford it...but do we want to do that NOW with the challenges we face on the world scene?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/19/2010 10:08:40 AM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 10:04:53 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If you change policies, no, the new carrier would not insure that hip for a number of years as its a pre-existing condition. Since most insurance policies are employer provided, and most people change jobs 5 - 8 times in their lives, many conditions either keep people tied to a job they no longer desire, or the new jobs exclude them from health benefits for cardiac conditions, diabetes, high blood pressure... the list goes on and on.


So basically, you could end up with only your right arm ensured! Its crazy and reminds me of pet insurance over here. Its ludicrously expensive and is worth basically nothing if the animal has suffered a few accidents or serious illnesses.


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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 10:07:30 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		One way to compare cross-country data is to adjust the salaries for purchasing-power parity — that is, adjusting the numbers so that $1,000 of salary buys the same amount of goods and services in every country, providing a general sense of a physician’s standard of living in each nation.

These numbers are in the second, fourth and sixth columns of the chart below.

They show that American general practitioners and nurses earn more than their counterparts in other developed countries, and American specialists are close to the top of the pack.

Another way is look at how a doctor’s salary compares to the average national income in that doctor’s country — that is, gross domestic product per capita. These numbers are in the third column, fifth and seventh columns of the chart.

As a country’s wealth rises, so should doctors’ pay. But even accounting for this trend, the United States pays doctors more than its wealth would predict






The NYTimes did this nice piece.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/19/2010 10:08:28 AM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 10:13:32 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		My God!!!!!  There are no doctors in Poland.   Rob may be on to nothing.

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 10:15:18 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Brian

If you have followed my posts you would know i am for health care reform...even Obamacare... at least it is worth a try...BUT...notice how many of these universal health care countries are on the brink of bankruptcy.


and Americas not?

quote:


I'm not sure America can afford universal healthcare..at least without abdicating its status as a world power. If we were to pull a few hundred million from defense we could afford it...but do we want to do that NOW with the challenges we face on the world scene?

Butch


Do you mean China threatening to collect its debt?

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/19/2010 10:16:23 AM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 10:56:08 AM   
Nslavu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

“Best healthcare in the world!” said John Boner (sp)
Yeah right John!
Bill

World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A third of Americans say they have gone without medical care or skipped filling a prescription because of cost,
compared to 5 percent in the Netherlands, according to study released on Thursday.

The study is the latest in a series by the non-profit Commonwealth Fund showing that while Americans pay far more
per capita for healthcare, they are unhappier with the results and less healthy than people in other rich countries.

The study published in the journal Health Affairs also showed that 20 percent of U.S. adults had major problems paying medical bills,
compared with 2 percent in Britain and 9 percent in France, the next costliest country.



News Flash:

Us Health Care Shows US Health Care Lacking.


These so called world comparisons are at best anecdotal.


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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 1:31:42 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You goddamn right about that Rob, one of the first fiscally responsible things we need to do is slash these fat government pensions to the bone, its welfare, we need to drop insurance coverage, cut the retirement to around 25% and outsource these jobs to the more efficient private sector.

I mean your crime rates are about 5 times the national average, what the fuck you been doing?  


I agree 100%  Federal pensions are fucking ridiculous. I think the states should stop sending money to DC then having to beg for some for it back. Great point. Cut all Federal pensions by 50% Salaries by 20& for those making over 75K, and throw all the federal retiree's on Medicare like everyone else.



Then we only need the state, county, city, and township pigs at the trough to rid ourselves of, good start there Rob.  We are 50% in agreement.  I never understood people who had no more ambition than to be a fuckin cop.


Oh this is funny coming from a pawn broker...You suck the blood out of the poor for pennies on the dollar, and have the gall to make fun of cops?

Tell me Ron, fence any stolen jewelry lately?


< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 11/19/2010 1:32:41 PM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 1:34:58 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Why would that be?

Because it might limit their profits?

Maybe that is one of the reasons why we pay out the ass for health care!!!!!


What do you have against Doctors making a profit? They only save lives after all....I guess in your fantasy land, they should do it out of the kindness of they're hearts.



So do policemen, which I believe you mentioned you are, or were.

Explain the difference to me.


Four years of higher education, residency, and the financial costs that come with it.

Quit while you only look dumb.

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 1:39:54 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Fuckin A.  And the cops come and take it from me and I am left holding the bag moneywise.  Can a cop know of stolen guns or jewelry before I get it?  Yes they can, but it falls to me to take the hit, cuz they wont tell me unless its after the fact, yet I have to send in everything I buy or pawn to leadsonline, and they have (most of the time) knowledge of the stolen items, but I cant see it for myself, to avoid that cost.

Further, people come to me to borrow money when they got nowhere else to go.  Good honest people, maybe they lost their jobs, and have to pay medical bills, or light, or heat, or medicine for their baby, or food.

Banks wont loan them money, stores wont give them credit.  I take the risk.

Hey, if you can sell that shit on the street, sell the shit, stand in front of my door and yell at the top of your lungs.

Pennies on the dollar?  Hardly, pal.   I also hold an FFL.  I have licensure up the fuckin ass from my state and county.  So---------

But I don't have healthcare.  

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/19/2010 1:43:02 PM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 2:24:57 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nslavu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

“Best healthcare in the world!” said John Boner (sp)
Yeah right John!
Bill

World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A third of Americans say they have gone without medical care or skipped filling a prescription because of cost,
compared to 5 percent in the Netherlands, according to study released on Thursday.

The study is the latest in a series by the non-profit Commonwealth Fund showing that while Americans pay far more
per capita for healthcare, they are unhappier with the results and less healthy than people in other rich countries.

The study published in the journal Health Affairs also showed that 20 percent of U.S. adults had major problems paying medical bills,
compared with 2 percent in Britain and 9 percent in France, the next costliest country.



News Flash:

Us Health Care Shows US Health Care Lacking.


These so called world comparisons are at best anecdotal.



Maybe so but I'd imagine that there's wealth of information out there that will tell the British healthcare system affords a degree of inclusion that the American system could only dream of (or fear) depending on point of view.

Nothing wrong with the US system but tell it how it is.

My view is that the US moving to a European style system is not a good thing - a spread of ideas is healthy. Although those Americans not covered might not agree....still......

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 2:35:30 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Brian

If you have followed my posts you would know i am for health care reform...even Obamacare... at least it is worth a try...BUT...notice how many of these universal health care countries are on the brink of bankruptcy.

I'm not sure America can afford universal healthcare..at least without abdicating its status as a world power. If we were to pull a few hundred billion from defense we could afford it...but do we want to do that NOW with the challenges we face on the world scene?

Butch



From my understanding Butch....the US unemployment rate....or stated unemployment rate is sat at 9.6%...which is a good 2% above ours.

I can't speak for continental Europe but what is certainly happening in Britian is that the Conservative Party is talking up the problem in order to reduce the state....it's an ideological divide that is not necessarily borne out by the economic reality.

The challenges you face on the world scene? The biggest challenge you face is getting a grip on yourselves. Remember - you're invading other countries - no one is invading you.





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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 2:37:47 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I thought labour was heaping on the butter these late days. 

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 3:18:24 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So do policemen, which I believe you mentioned you are, or were.

Explain the difference to me.


Four years of higher education, residency, and the financial costs that come with it.

Quit while you only look dumb.



OK Robbie, let's take this step by step.

You may want to take notes.

First, it is more than four years of higher education, unless you want to count high school, which in your case I'm sure you do.

Second, the value of an education is not supposed to be measured in monetary terms, but somehow you conservatives manage to reduce it to that.

I would like to believe that doctors enter their profession because they want to help people.

You want to believe it is because they want to make money.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/19/2010 3:24:31 PM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 3:22:11 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


The challenges you face on the world scene? The biggest challenge you face is getting a grip on yourselves. Remember - you're invading other countries - no one is invading you.




No our biggest challenge is to get the rest of the free western world to offer up their children to protect themselves instead of us doing it mostly for them.

But that said I basically agree with you... I am an unabashed isolationist...I would like to build that wall...depend on our own resources... and the hell with the rest of the planet. I think all countries should do the same and it would be a better world by far.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/19/2010 3:23:31 PM >

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 3:28:14 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: World comparison shows U.S. healthcare lacking - 11/19/2010 8:35:48 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


Nothing wrong with the US system but tell it how it is.

My view is that the US moving to a European style system is not a good thing - a spread of ideas is healthy. Although those Americans not covered might not agree....still......


A 1997 study cited earlier in the thread (post # 33) concluded "that almost 100,000 people died in the United States each year because of lack of needed care—three times the number of people who died of AIDs."

Doesn't this suggest that there's at least c100, 000 things wrong with the US system to you?

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 9:11:43 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hi Brian

If you have followed my posts you would know i am for health care reform...even Obamacare... at least it is worth a try...BUT...notice how many of these universal health care countries are on the brink of bankruptcy.

I'm not sure America can afford universal healthcare..at least without abdicating its status as a world power. If we were to pull a few hundred billion from defense we could afford it...but do we want to do that NOW with the challenges we face on the world scene?

Butch


Interesting choice you propose there. In human terms it looks like:

(a) Continue the face the "challenges" (at an annual cost of tens of thousands of deaths, both US and non-US citizens) AND continue to let additional tens of thousands of your own people die because of inadequate health care; or

(b) Let the rest of the world take care of itself and the US can take care of its own citizens.

Whilst I am far from convinced these are the only options available, I am pretty sure I can guess which option the rest of the world would prefer. Option (b) would ensure tens of thousands of people, both inside and outside the USA, would live not die.

Sounds like win-win to me.

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RE: World comparison shows U.S. health care lacking - 11/19/2010 9:24:41 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


Interesting choice you propose there. In human terms it looks like:

(a) Continue the face the "challenges" (at an annual cost of tens of thousands of deaths, both US and non-US citizens) AND continue to let additional tens of thousands of your own people die because of inadequate health care; or

(b) Let the rest of the world take care of itself and the US can take care of its own citizens.

Whilst I am far from convinced these are the only options available, I am pretty sure I can guess which option the rest of the world would prefer. Option (b) would ensure tens of thousands of people, both inside and outside the USA, would live not die.

Sounds like win-win to me.



You are naive if you think the rest of the world would like the US not to fight their battles for them...As an example today... NATO has decided they want a missile defense shield...OK who do you think will pay for the lions share of the cost... provide the expertice...materials...and man the facilities?

Not using option B my friend

Hey I've an idea... lets tax NATO for the defense shield and we can use the money to pay for health care

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/19/2010 9:28:08 PM >

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