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RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 5:30:46 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The Section 8 program has been one of my pet peeves for a while now, so this article was guaranteed to catch my eye. As Atlanta struggles to make a difference, instead of just perpetuating the generational cycle of poverty maintenance, all sorts of interesting issues come up along the way.

American housing policy encourages the formation of households in which low-income single women raise children—exactly the sort of homes where kids’ prospects are bleakest. Crime rates, moreover, are consistently high in and around public housing, and voucher units have been widely implicated in the spread of social problems to formerly safe areas. The problem is financial, as well: housing vouchers alone, which didn’t even exist until 1974, now cost taxpayers $18 billion, more than the $16.9 billion that we spend on welfare. And it’s a policy that disproportionately affects the African-American poor. Nearly 45 percent of public-housing tenants are black, as are 42 percent of voucher recipients.

http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_4_atlanta-public-housing.html


I honestly do not know the answer, I would suggest that anybody who can't afford to look after their kids and give them stable homes - not due to a recession but they have been long term unemployed - but continues to breed is possibly too stupid to use contraception or doesn't want to use it because they see kids as welfare checks, so maybe certain rules, if you keep having kids without having the means to support them and no prospects to ever change that, you can claim your benefits but you also have to accept that - in case you are female and you have brought children into the world that you or the father can't support and could not support before - you are given an birth control injection (I think it's a 3 month slowly release hormonal deposit). It might cut down on abusing babies as a means to get support.

I actually feel very sorry for the kids that are born into such circumstances, they grow up with the cards stacked against them and it is not their fault!

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 6:08:04 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


I honestly do not know the answer, I would suggest that anybody who can't afford to look after their kids and give them stable homes - not due to a recession but they have been long term unemployed - but continues to breed is possibly too stupid to use contraception or doesn't want to use it because they see kids as welfare checks, so maybe certain rules, if you keep having kids without having the means to support them and no prospects to ever change that, you can claim your benefits but you also have to accept that - in case you are female and you have brought children into the world that you or the father can't support and could not support before - you are given an birth control injection (I think it's a 3 month slowly release hormonal deposit). It might cut down on abusing babies as a means to get support.



Maybe we can just start a euthanasia program to prevent those breeders from breeding to begin with.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 6:16:12 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


I honestly do not know the answer, I would suggest that anybody who can't afford to look after their kids and give them stable homes - not due to a recession but they have been long term unemployed - but continues to breed is possibly too stupid to use contraception or doesn't want to use it because they see kids as welfare checks, so maybe certain rules, if you keep having kids without having the means to support them and no prospects to ever change that, you can claim your benefits but you also have to accept that - in case you are female and you have brought children into the world that you or the father can't support and could not support before - you are given an birth control injection (I think it's a 3 month slowly release hormonal deposit). It might cut down on abusing babies as a means to get support.



Maybe we can just start a euthanasia program to prevent those breeders from breeding to begin with.




Keep on being negative, now you want to kill people... Or do you just want to kill Catholics? Or maybe you prefer that more children suffer because the parents see them as a way to milk the system and keep on producing them without a thought for the children.

I guess you would claim to be a humanist... I would say you are a negative asshole who doesn't have any ideas but gets off on sabotaging everything else because if it is not his idea it can't be good...

You know, I am not for mood elevators in general, in your case, prozac might be an idea, right after that straight jacket

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 9:11:50 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


I honestly do not know the answer, I would suggest that anybody who can't afford to look after their kids and give them stable homes - not due to a recession but they have been long term unemployed - but continues to breed is possibly too stupid to use contraception or doesn't want to use it because they see kids as welfare checks, so maybe certain rules, if you keep having kids without having the means to support them and no prospects to ever change that, you can claim your benefits but you also have to accept that - in case you are female and you have brought children into the world that you or the father can't support and could not support before - you are given an birth control injection (I think it's a 3 month slowly release hormonal deposit). It might cut down on abusing babies as a means to get support.



Maybe we can just start a euthanasia program to prevent those breeders from breeding to begin with.




Keep on being negative, now you want to kill people... Or do you just want to kill Catholics?
Or maybe you prefer that more children suffer because the parents see them as a way to milk the system and keep on producing them without a thought for the children.

I guess you would claim to be a humanist... I would say you are a negative asshole who doesn't have any ideas but gets off on sabotaging everything else because if it is not his idea it can't be good...

You know, I am not for mood elevators in general, in your case, prozac might be an idea, right after that straight jacket


Wow!!!!!!!!

I'm truly not sure what to say to someone who does not see obvious sarcasm.

But you basically are a person who believes others are imposing on your life, which I find to to be a common trait among conservatives.

And it's ugly, no matter how you try to dress it up.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 11/20/2010 9:16:54 PM >

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 9:14:15 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


Wow!!!!!!!!

I'm truly not sure what to say to someone who does not see obvious sarcasm.




I'm not sure what to say to somebody who's obviously a few fries short of a happy meal....

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 9:19:47 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


Wow!!!!!!!!

I'm truly not sure what to say to someone who does not see obvious sarcasm.




I'm not sure what to say to somebody who's obviously a few fries short of a happy meal....


Let me ask you this, do you really want to debate this or just trade barbs?

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 10:25:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
LadyConstanze, the "answer" is "Norplant." There are a LOT of people who just should not have kids.
But when they do they have no qualms about going on public assistance. And then their kids do the same. Generation after generation.
It's like a never-ending factory conveyor belt of non productive people who cost the rest of society a fortune. Jails, courts, schools, housing, medical, dental, even when they die they don't pay for their own funerals! We do.
You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.
Back in the good ol days if a girl got pregnant *her family* took care of her and the baby not the state.
If you keep "giving" people things there'll always be plenty of them to "take" those things.
Another "big government" success story.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/20/2010 10:26:53 PM >


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/20/2010 10:33:12 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LadyConstanze, the "answer" is "Norplant." There are a LOT of people who just should not have kids.
But when they do they have no qualms about going on public assistance. And then their kids do the same. Generation after generation.
It's like a never-ending factory conveyor belt of non productive people who cost the rest of society a fortune. Jails, courts, schools, housing, medical, dental, even when they die they don't pay for their own funerals! We do.
You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.
Back in the good ol days if a girl got pregnant *her family* took care of her and the baby not the state.
If you keep "giving" people things there'll always be plenty of them to "take" those things.
Another "big government" success story.


Popeye, you are also forgetting that babies out of wedlock and going to jail were both things that received societal censure.  They no longer do.  In many ways they are something to brag about. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 9:27:18 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Joined: 8/7/2007
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The "having a bunch of babies to milk the system" is somewhat an archaic mindset. Families are limited to something like a total of five years to receive cash assistance. While you get a few extra bucks for each dependant, the amount and the time you can receive the assistance is limited.

I have four children. I was married, had a nice respectable income. Paid my taxes and pretty much lived the American dream. Until my husband became a controlling psychopathic crack addict who began abusing me and our children. Fast forward 13 1/2 years later. For a time I was one of those women with 4 children receiving cash assistance and food assistance.

On the surface I might even have looked like the cliche' that gets spouted so often on these boards. However, in the nearly 14 years I've been a single mom, I only used up 6 months of those on cash assistnce. My children and I were never homeless. I've NEVER EVER been arrested let alone in jail! My kids are mostly grown but my youngest is still in school and he has a 4.0 gpa. We didn't always have great living conditions, but there was a roof over our head. I really doubt that I'm much of an exception from the norm. Shit happens. Sometimes our best laid plans fall to ruin. Most of the people that I new who were receiving assistance, were busting their humps looking for work.

Currently I am on disability. My first 'check' was in February of this year. Strangely enough, I do ok on disability. My bills (such as they are) get paid, and I don't need housing assitance (although I'm very curious about it.)

Accepting Disability was hard. I worked as long as I was physically capable of doing so, and truthfully years longer than I should have, because I nearly killed myself being too proud to admit I needed to get help. Again, I can't believe that I'm much of an exception and tend to feel that no one WANTS to have to accept their limitations and seek assistance. It is a horrible blow to ones pride and self confidence. It shouldn't have to be such a shameful thing, but it is hard for it not to be when you hear or read about the opinions so many people have toward those ON assistance. It is pretty damn near devestating to know that so many people, were they to know me, would look down on me for things that really and truly are outside of my control. I tend to think most people are on assitance the same reason I was. That my pride wasn't more important than providing for my children, and sometimes you just have to suck it up and do what you have to do to survive.

Now, back to the topic (and I apologize for the slight detour, there are just times when I feel strongly enough to speak up about things).

I can't really speak toward the reality of public housing. I've been fortunate, I guess, not to need it. I still tend to think that those who are needing the assistance, aren't any different than I was when I sought assistance. I know there are people who abuse the system, and take advantage, but I like to believe THEY are the exception not the norm.

Anyway, I just figured that while I was "slumming" here in the Politics and Religion section, I'd go all out and strip myself bare and raw for your entertaainment! Never knew I was into self-inflicted humiliation, but we learn something new about ourselves every day.

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 11/21/2010 9:46:47 AM >

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 10:24:06 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
My solution is that everybody drawing anything- including longterm unemployment (say, over 8 weeks) sit at a desk for 40 hours per week. Those who do not abuse the equipment can use computers to access job boards; they can also study textbooks and take online courses.
A much more humane approach than warehousing people indefinately in slums.
You're familiar with franklins quotation about not allowing people to become comfortable in their poverty?


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 10:33:12 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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We have exactly this system in the county where I work--free and staffed jobs services, including computers, free long-distance calls for job related calls, resume service, everything.

My professional students designed some systems for them for a project once.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 11:55:14 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LadyConstanze, the "answer" is "Norplant." There are a LOT of people who just should not have kids.
But when they do they have no qualms about going on public assistance. And then their kids do the same. Generation after generation.
It's like a never-ending factory conveyor belt of non productive people who cost the rest of society a fortune.
Jails, courts, schools, housing, medical, dental, even when they die they don't pay for their own funerals! We do.
You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.
Back in the good ol days if a girl got pregnant *her family* took care of her and the baby not the state.
If you keep "giving" people things there'll always be plenty of them to "take" those things.
Another "big government" success story.


Oh for fuck's sake.

How many things cost society Popeye?

Compare the cost of what you are complaining about to the useless war in Iraq.


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 1:45:29 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LadyConstanze, the "answer" is "Norplant." There are a LOT of people who just should not have kids.
But when they do they have no qualms about going on public assistance. And then their kids do the same. Generation after generation.
It's like a never-ending factory conveyor belt of non productive people who cost the rest of society a fortune.
Jails, courts, schools, housing, medical, dental, even when they die they don't pay for their own funerals! We do.
You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.
Back in the good ol days if a girl got pregnant *her family* took care of her and the baby not the state.
If you keep "giving" people things there'll always be plenty of them to "take" those things.
Another "big government" success story.


Oh for fuck's sake.

How many things cost society Popeye?

Compare the cost of what you are complaining about to the useless war in Iraq.





Rule, oh for fuck's sake yourself, we're not talking about the war in Iraq here.
Start a thread on it if you want. Now run along.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 2:33:38 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We have exactly this system in the county where I work--


AFDC recipients sit a desk 40 hours per week?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 6:46:49 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
What say we let them out for interviews...

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 8:34:13 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
Good idea, that.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 9:04:42 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.


For your information, the United States has been bankrupt since 1933.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 9:38:40 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline
What do the mothers do for child care?  Awhile back, I heard officials say that other people in the complex were supposed to provide child care for working moms.  I found that pretty amazing - were all these people suitable for child care?  Would providing child care count as working?

I can see why there should be a work requirement, but at the same time I wonder why middle class or upper class women are told they aren't good  mothers if they put their kids in child care while working; meanwhile poor mothers are supposed to use flaky child care.

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/21/2010 10:20:49 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We have exactly this system in the county where I work--


AFDC recipients sit a desk 40 hours per week?



That's AFDC, guys. Outside of a very limited number of local authorities, no such requirement exists on the public housing/Section 8 rosters.

Personally, I think we need to tier the social net. It makes no sense to have the long-term disabled, the people who need a temporary hand-up, and the cultural lifestylers reaching into the same pot.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Public Housing and the Damage Done - 11/22/2010 5:34:55 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LadyConstanze, the "answer" is "Norplant." There are a LOT of people who just should not have kids.
But when they do they have no qualms about going on public assistance. And then their kids do the same. Generation after generation.
It's like a never-ending factory conveyor belt of non productive people who cost the rest of society a fortune.
Jails, courts, schools, housing, medical, dental, even when they die they don't pay for their own funerals! We do.
You can only go on for so long like that before we go bankrupt.
Back in the good ol days if a girl got pregnant *her family* took care of her and the baby not the state.
If you keep "giving" people things there'll always be plenty of them to "take" those things.
Another "big government" success story.


Oh for fuck's sake.

How many things cost society Popeye?

Compare the cost of what you are complaining about to the useless war in Iraq.





Rule, oh for fuck's sake yourself, we're not talking about the war in Iraq here.
Start a thread on it if you want. Now run along.


Uh...........you brought up the issue of cost to society.

So it follows that if you are going to bitch and moan about one cost then you should be far more upset by a far greater cost.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 40
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