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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By: malterwitty Tags: * AFGHANISTAN * GREA


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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/26/2010 4:44:21 PM   
gungadin09


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i knew there was a reason i couldn't score heroin in the UK.

pam

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/26/2010 6:03:40 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz
I myself wonder why, when we are surrounded by copious evidence of just how dangerous this drug is people still choose to try it. But it seems to me to be a little harsh to tell someone who has made a stupid, stupid choice, perhaps many years ago, and is now trapped in hell: 'Well, you knew what you were getting into'.

Yep if I were a zebra I'd still cross a crocodile infested river, deciding what any person would do in another situation is not possible.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/26/2010 6:10:49 PM >


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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/26/2010 6:21:58 PM   
tweakabelle


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Lockit, I am so sorry to hear of your situation.

You might find some interesting info here:
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2010/s3023253.htm

It is a transcript of a program investigating the prescribing of medical opioids in Australia. It contains an interview with a doctor who is working with chronic pain sufferers but using a non-medicated regimen, with (apparently) good results.

Sorry I can't be of more help but it's way outside my field.

While I hear your pain, I can't help feeling that the problems you are encountering with the prescription of pain killers might in large measure disappear with a more benign approach to heroin prescription to addicts by appropriate medical authorities.

Best wishes



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 11/26/2010 6:26:21 PM >

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 2:25:31 AM   
hertz


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Hey, Lockit...

I'm genuinely sorry I have pissed you off - it wasn't my intention, and I don't feel that good about it that I have. I kind of get where you are coming from now, and believe me when I tell you I do understand what it's like to have life turn around and bite you hard. My partner has been ill for years with Fibromyalgia - I know what it's like to be in pain all the time because I see the way she suffers and it's a fucking misery for her. Maybe we are not going to be friends, and that's fine, but I would like you at least to accept that I don't mean you any harm, and much as I might come across as a bit of a Twat here, there's actually a real person behind these words who isn't quite the person the words might suggest he is.

I'm sorry.

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 4:20:50 AM   
pahunkboy


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Re  Hertz,  I figured I read the post wrong- or missed an earlier post.   

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 4:45:46 AM   
LadyPact


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I think that what happens during these discussions, is that there is a camp that wants to project that, everything would just be fine if there was legalization.  In My opinion, that's really not true.  The purchase could be decriminalized and make shooting galleries as clean as possible, but that doesn't eliminate the complexities of the issue.  Most people in the throws of addiction will still do whatever it takes to chase the next high.  The money is still going to run out.  There will still be family and loved ones hurt, if for no other reason that the addict has a higher importance for getting high than being a part of other lives.  The nature of addiction is that other people will be harmed.  Anyone who doesn't see that is living in a cloud.

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 7:09:34 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think that what happens during these discussions, is that there is a camp that wants to project that, everything would just be fine if there was legalization.  In My opinion, that's really not true.  The purchase could be decriminalized and make shooting galleries as clean as possible, but that doesn't eliminate the complexities of the issue.  Most people in the throws of addiction will still do whatever it takes to chase the next high.  The money is still going to run out.  There will still be family and loved ones hurt, if for no other reason that the addict has a higher importance for getting high than being a part of other lives.  The nature of addiction is that other people will be harmed.  Anyone who doesn't see that is living in a cloud.

I"ve never heard anyone suggest decriminalisation etc is some kind of magic wand that will cure all problems overnight. As i understand it the argument goes that it will minimise harm, not eliminate it. For example cheap heroin on prescription for use at shooting galleries will greatly reduce the need for crime to finance a habit. This won't do anything to directly address the more personal issues you mentioned. Only addicts themselves can do that.

It's about keeping them alive, with minimum harm to their health and the rest of society until they're in a position to address their issues.

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 9:07:35 AM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think that what happens during these discussions, is that there is a camp that wants to project that, everything would just be fine if there was legalization.  In My opinion, that's really not true.  The purchase could be decriminalized and make shooting galleries as clean as possible, but that doesn't eliminate the complexities of the issue.  Most people in the throws of addiction will still do whatever it takes to chase the next high.  The money is still going to run out.  There will still be family and loved ones hurt, if for no other reason that the addict has a higher importance for getting high than being a part of other lives.  The nature of addiction is that other people will be harmed.  Anyone who doesn't see that is living in a cloud.

I"ve never heard anyone suggest decriminalisation etc is some kind of magic wand that will cure all problems overnight. As i understand it the argument goes that it will minimise harm, not eliminate it. For example cheap heroin on prescription for use at shooting galleries will greatly reduce the need for crime to finance a habit. This won't do anything to directly address the more personal issues you mentioned. Only addicts themselves can do that.

It's about keeping them alive, with minimum harm to their health and the rest of society until they're in a position to address their issues.


+1

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 9:27:50 AM   
hlen5


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efSUJ5UQOY&NR=1

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/27/2010 10:07:27 AM   
Lockit


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I just read from the link that tweakabelle provided. This link is proof of how real pain sufferer's are treated because of addicts. It is a fallacy that prescription medication users will become addicts. That is why I provided a link in my last post, maybe two that address this. An addict at some time, makes a choice that leads to addiction and the continuation of use and abuse that pain sufferer's do not make in the same way. Someone that only wants to deal with their pain will do whatever they can to help themselves and don't want to take medication, but must. Before all of this, you couldn't get me to take an over the counter medication because I would rather tough it out because by the age of sixteen I had to take twelve medications, morning, afternoon and night and just to swallow a pill made me gag. Then... it all changed. I couldn't tough it out. I used a lot of tylenol in one month... and knew that the doctors had to help me and yet no one would, they didn't even know what was wrong with me and why I was in pain... but now because I used tylenol, I had a liver problem. It was that, that made them see that something was far more wrong than they first believed.

I had seen doctors nation wide since an infant and no one could figure out what was wrong with me, therefore I must be a hypochondriac, someone who wanted to be ill and sought attention and of course a mental health problem. I've had labels all my life and few ever came close to the type of person I was with the character I have. So we finally get to the bottom of what is wrong with me. I brought those answers as I had a bit of medical experience and training and took my own findings to the doctor and he said that I might be correct and sent me to experts, if there was such a thing at the time and even currently.

Then when we had names for some of the illnesses, I became the drug seeker. The addict that only wanted a high, to lie and manipulate to get my fix. They didn't look at my records, they didn't examine me or my life and they sure as hell didn't want to medicate me and fall for my manipulations. They tried every therapy that could be done. I suffered more as nothing was helping and in fact, the therapy was making me worse. All of course had to be an act because these therapies helped others and of course they had to help me. No... she was seeking a high and we might as well add on alcohol use because her liver is acting up... with no thought that the medication I was given at one point had Tylenol in it and I was allergic to it. So now I was an addict seeking and an alcoholic! I didn't even drink!

You know, most the men that have left my life didn't leave because of my health issues or me. They left because they couldn't take one more trip to the ER or a doctors office and watch how they treated me and called me things I was not. Then they couldn't watch how they insisted I was an addict or alcoholic and would insist I take medications that were dangerous for me and how I often times ended up sicker than I went into the ER. Did they help me then? No, they sent me packing as quickly as they could, literally putting me in a wheel chair and walking me out of the hospital, swelling and with blood pressure spiking to dangerous levels because of the medication I begged them not to give me, but took to prove I wasn't an addict. One boyfriend that I could have lived with happily for the rest of my life, literally ran from a hospital room saying...  I can't watch this... I'm sorry, I have to go. The end. All because they gave me a medication they give most when they come in with back pain and it could thin my blood because of another illness and could kill me. A fucking aspirin could kill me! But no, because the rare genetic illness I have isn't taught in America, I was faking and lying about that too and created a new illness. lol

They say the therapy could help pain sufferer's. Yes, in some cases, many things can help and if anyone took the time to talk to me, they would see that I have tried just about everything. I am a positive person and a happy one and don't live my life anywhere close to how they assume I must be living. I cannot tell you how many doctors have said to me... You're not crazy! You're not an addict! I can't believe it... but here is what we will do now that we know you aren't.

When we assume right from the start that someone is an addict or could be an addict, we close our minds to what could really be happening and most wash their hands of a patient that is problematic, one way or another. You know in the hundreds of doctors that have called me names, accused me and didn't treat me for anything but mental health issues they thought I had, not one ever said they were sorry for how they treated me. Not one.

This link is a prime example of how those with addictive issues and I believe character issues have harmed those of us that have tried everything to be well and out of pain and yet... still are unwell and in pain and need assistance. Look at us as if there is a problem with us and oh... be compassionate and offer treatments that have already been tried and expect them to work because with someone, somewhere it helped them, whether or not it was the same medical situation or not. No one has the same medical situation I have, even those with some of the illnesses or injury that I have. I am a one in a few million with some, I am one in a few hundred thousand in one and I am a mix of so many things that I have never met anyone with the same situation. Do they know how to treat me? Hell no and their treatments would kill me and because I know this I have been able to save my own ass and help many others with some of what I have going on.

I have spoken to our political leaders, to those of the Hollywood set, got attention that few others could get and did help in some ways, to change a law and help some people in Colorado, but... I couldn't do anything about a lot of things because a pain sufferer is guilty before proven guilty because of those that allowed themselves to go down a path most of us do not chose to go down. Because of the minority of pain sufferers and some addicts that wanted to play with their lives, we suffer for their weakness.

I took the same medications and doses of those medications for seven years. I did not go through withdrawal. I didn't take more than I should and just took medication for my ailments. I was safe as I could be because of the medications we finally felt best for me and because most other medications were dangerous for me. I didn't lie, I didn't doctor shop even when they neglected me, because I stayed to prove myself and always did.

I am not alone here. I have spoken to hundreds of people in a similar situation and they agree with me that to take the easy way out... isn't the way we wish to go. We don't want to be addicts and would under medicate to make sure we didn't become addicts. We only wanted some life put back into our lives... to care for families, to work and play and to talk through a friggin store rather than be held down by a ride'um cart. We didn't want to escape life, but experience it and to those that wish to say we have a hidden problem rather than a pain problem that resists treatments or isn't helped by them... is a character assassination and should be a crime because we are so neglected and abused in so many ways.

I took my own story public in many ways to help others that were suffering as I was. I was asked to speak for those with the rare illness because I was effective at what I did. Yet, I became too ill to do it any more. Too in pain, too sick and lost too much of my mental abilities because of stroke. Yet, I am still just an addict in most doctors eyes and I haven't had a pill for over two years now. Two years in which I could no longer take part in any fun and could only do what I had to do to get through the days. Two years where I could no longer walk and had to ride and couldn't work around my house or yard any longer because of pain. Two years where I gained weight because I couldn't move and was now stuck in my home unable to live life, where with medication, I was.

Two years where my grandchildren would mimic me in my pain and how I made sounds when I moved... would rub my back and say is it better now grandma... where I had to forgo taking part in the fun stuff in life because I just couldn't do that and the serious stuff I had to do. Two years of being in constant pain and with a smile through tears some days... because I am a happy person... that simply wants some life back. With pain medication men are even more interested in me. Without it... watching my life is scary to them because I appear sicker than I am simply because it fucking hurts to go somewhere and sit in a chair or because going and doing means I am hurting myself.

No, personally addicts have harmed me a lot. Doctors that try to protect me from myself and addiction harm me. Those in political power harm me as well, in many ways. I may not speak for others anymore and can only use my story now, but god damn it.... I may not work as I once did because I am in pain and the pain pushes me into other aspects of my illnesses, but when something like this comes up, you can't shut me up. See?

Do I need attention? No. Do I need pity? No. Do I need to call attention to myself? No. I am happy, well adjusted and doing my thing as far as I can from a bed or lounge chair... and I dream of pain relief so I could date and go out with friends and actually go play out there... in the world... with my family. Just six little pills a day would change my life and yet because of others that wanted to play or escape life... I am trapped by it.

Thank you very much.






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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/29/2010 1:52:19 PM   
tweakabelle


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here's one view of where the debate is (or isn't depending on your point of view) in Australia at the moment:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/drug-policy-stalls-in-lawandorder-gear-20101129-18dkq.html

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RE: Heroin shortage in UK is 'putting lives at risk' By... - 11/29/2010 2:01:33 PM   
pahunkboy


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Lockit,

I so hear you on ER DRs..  Been there, done that.  It is humiliating. I used to bring my mother in with me.  I am so glad my pain levels are with in reason right now.    I did not think those dark days would ever pass...

I am always mindful that one wrong move can set me right back to square one.

I overheard to DR yapping- thru the wall....  and I was not flattered at all.

Big HUGS to you.  There has to be a better way.


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