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The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:08:47 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

I read about this yesterday.

It is much like the myth of '100% pure Angus Beef'

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!
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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:12:21 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Eggs were pricey this week.

Int post LAT.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:37:42 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		PA, I find it interesting for several reasons. I work in Iowa City......you will not find a group of people more green, more liberal, more into being all PC. Hell, I practically get glared at for not carrying my own bags to the grocery store or throwing something recyclable into the trash. The same people are also all about eating organic, only buying free range meat and eggs, etc etc etc.

Yet I live in rural Iowa. I talk to farmers, I talk to butchers. If a steer comes into the locker, is mostly black (which is funny because all purebred Angus are not black) and has most of the physical characteristics of the Angus breed, it can be called 'Angus'. Increasing the price based upon that alone. When the reality is, it means NOTHING.

I had never investigated the poultry aspect but saw an interesting news article in the Times yesterday so did some more research. Basically, like the Angus label, it means nothing.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:42:22 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		From the upc-online front page
quote:

and to promote the benefits of a vegan diet and lifestyle


I've got several members of my family involved in chicken production. I have never seen a coop as crowded or dirty as those pictured, I think it likely all the photos involve operations that have been shut down for violating food production laws.

Reports of chickens panting in stifling coops and of coops filed with toxic gases are lies or about operations that lost all their birds. Chickens are very vulnerable to heat and to poisonous gases.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:45:14 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		that figures.

If I pay retail- I expect a bag. 

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:51:29 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I've seen similar situations in facilities that are currently in production here in Iowa. Country Lane Eggs has been in operation since long before I remember. When I was in my teens I did some volunteer work for the church. We went and 'pulled chickens' to be loaded and sold to Banquet and Campbells. Those chickens that were past their prime for egg laying and sold for pot pies and chicken noodle soup. The chickens were basically featherless because they are kept in itty bitty cages, 6 or so to a cage. The feathers get rubbed/broken off. Lots of injuries due to squabbles etc. Nothing at all humane about that place.

I pass by the Rich family farm every day. They are huge in turkey production. I can see 8 huge buildings along the road, packed full of turkeys. Misters and fans keeping them cool, still not exactly humane. When they ship out birds, they have to have a skid loader to scrap the shit out, it is so deep. Behind the sheds are long mounds of turkey shit and dead turkeys. The vultures, and this time of year the bald eagles, love those mounds.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:06:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

PA, I find it interesting for several reasons. I work in Iowa City......you will not find a group of people more green, more liberal, more into being all PC. Hell, I practically get glared at for not carrying my own bags to the grocery store or throwing something recyclable into the trash. The same people are also all about eating organic, only buying free range meat and eggs, etc etc etc.

Yet I live in rural Iowa. I talk to farmers, I talk to butchers. If a steer comes into the locker, is mostly black (which is funny because all purebred Angus are not black) and has most of the physical characteristics of the Angus breed, it can be called 'Angus'. Increasing the price based upon that alone. When the reality is, it means NOTHING.

I had never investigated the poultry aspect but saw an interesting news article in the Times yesterday so did some more research. Basically, like the Angus label, it means nothing.


LaTigresse, you poor thing! That sounds like a horrible place to live! Can you imagine someone like me passing through that place?
"Put out that cigar!"
"Go fuck your mother!"

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:07:50 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

I read about this yesterday.

It is much like the myth of '100% pure Angus Beef'


Ah yes, the joys of Marketing.

Here in the UK there are specific, legally enforceable definitions of what constitutes "free-range". Although, notably, not of what constitutes "Organic" - that accreditation is currently handled by a charity/foundation, not by any statute (or was the last time I looked).

So, if you want to put “free range” on your eggs or chickens, for example, they have to have x amount of space with y amount of light, access to outside, etc.

The supermarkets tried a fast one to get around this, by inventing new terms like “barn eggs” – these again give you the marketing impression of a spacious, airy “barn”, but as always “fucking great shed with shitloads of birds in it” was nearer the mark. However, Parliament added the term, together with a definition, so they can’t get away with it anymore.

The biggest con of the lot is "farm fresh eggs" ... picture what you think that is, then read the page below.

Here’s our current terms, together with their conditions;

http://www.poultry.allotment.org.uk/Chicken_a/Chicken_Egg_Excess/chicken-eggs.php


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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:10:45 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		It floors me when they pump meat with water and sell it.

Like why do I want to pay for WATER?

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:16:21 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

This is why I like to buy from local farmers at the farmer's market. They have no shame at all about telling me details of each piece of meat and have offered to let me tour their property. I know it's not a foolproof system either but at least they aren't telling me it's Angus. They just tell me how pretty the cow was and when it was butchered.

Speaking of, I don't get out there nearly as much as I should... >.<

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 11/25/2010 7:17:14 AM >

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:21:19 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

It floors me when they pump meat with water and sell it.

Like why do I want to pay for WATER?



Bacon. It's a fucking disgrace. Here's a little-known fact ... in the UK, regulations state that water can be added. Ok, fine, so long as it's labelled then "whatever". The thing is, the machines that add the water work to tolerances of 0.01%, but the regulations state that the label only has to be "accurate" (a somewhat laughable term in this context) to within 10% of its stated amount. Yes, that's right, TEN PERCENT!

Obviously, the producers aren't stupid. So when you buy bacon that's labelled as containing "5% water", it will actually contain 15%, and one labelled as containing 15% will be one quarter water. It's a flat-out con.

Personally I don't have any issue with battery farming - it's all very well for wealthy, middle-class types to get all frothy about what they feed little Jasper & Jemima, but not everyone has the money to be able to buy free-range or organic (and Organic's the biggest con of the lot), so I wouldn't ban it, but what I do like to see is accurate labelling, so the consumer can make an informed choice. I tend to buy free-range chickens & eggs, only because I think the taste is better. But that's my personal choice, and I wouldn't remove the choice others have to do differently.

I’m also fortunate enough to have not one, but two, proper old-fashioned butchers within 5 mins drive of me, so I can get proper bacon, with rind. And proper pork too. Yum


< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 11/25/2010 7:22:08 AM >

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:21:51 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think its good that you pointed this out Lat. Meat animals sometimes need a human voice.

I think its a shame that the final part of that document was about becoming a vegan because there are other alternatives. If the consumers put enough pressure on the way our meat is farmed instead of allowing themselves to be misguided by labels, then perhaps these farmers would sit up and listen to what the consumer wants.


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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:25:29 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I think its good that you pointed this out Lat. Meat animals sometimes need a human voice.

I think its a shame that the final part of that document was about becoming a vegan because there are other alternatives. If the consumers put enough pressure on the way our meat is farmed instead of allowing themselves to be misguided by labels, then perhaps these farmers would sit up and listen to what the consumer wants.



So long as you're able to pay the premium for that, of course. Many aren't.

The price of meat in the UK has rocketed the last few years - a decent rib-eye steak, for example, is now past the £16 a kilo mark. And lamb is (for domestic meat) into the £12-15+ a kilo bracket, depending on type and quality.

That's a shedload of money for not much meat.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:31:44 AM   
allthatjaz


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Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


Personally I don't have any issue with battery farming - it's all very well for wealthy, middle-class types to get all frothy about what they feed little Jasper & Jemima, but not everyone has the money to be able to buy free-range or organic (and Organic's the biggest con of the lot), so I wouldn't ban it, but what I do like to see is accurate labelling, so the consumer can make an informed choice. I tend to buy free-range chickens & eggs, only because I think the taste is better. But that's my personal choice, and I wouldn't remove the choice others have to do differently.



Well I'm not a wealthy, middle-class type and I get round buying green meet from my local farmers.
You get a lot more meat for your money and so one plump healthy chicken will make 2 meals plus a soup.




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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:36:47 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


Personally I don't have any issue with battery farming - it's all very well for wealthy, middle-class types to get all frothy about what they feed little Jasper & Jemima, but not everyone has the money to be able to buy free-range or organic (and Organic's the biggest con of the lot), so I wouldn't ban it, but what I do like to see is accurate labelling, so the consumer can make an informed choice. I tend to buy free-range chickens & eggs, only because I think the taste is better. But that's my personal choice, and I wouldn't remove the choice others have to do differently.


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Well I'm not a wealthy, middle-class type and I get round buying green meet from my local farmers.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were like that, but we've had a rash of wealthy celebrity types of late (chief of which is Jamie Oliver; a fine cook, but also a fat-tongued twat) telling people what they should and shouldn't think, and do. I find it irritating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
You get a lot more meat for your money and so one plump healthy chicken will make 2 meals plus a soup.

Indeed so. I do the same myself. Cooking is a hobby I enjoy hugely, and really helps when you're trying to save some money; for the same money as someone else would spend on a 2 -person ready meal, I can do proper, healthy, home-cooked food for at least twice as many people, and often more.

And I love home-made chicken soup too.


< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 11/25/2010 7:37:30 AM >

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:39:19 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

It floors me when they pump meat with water and sell it.

Like why do I want to pay for WATER?



Bacon. It's a fucking disgrace. Here's a little-known fact ... in the UK, regulations state that water can be added. Ok, fine, so long as it's labelled then "whatever". The thing is, the machines that add the water work to tolerances of 0.01%, but the regulations state that the label only has to be "accurate" (a somewhat laughable term in this context) to within 10% of its stated amount. Yes, that's right, TEN PERCENT!

Obviously, the producers aren't stupid. So when you buy bacon that's labelled as containing "5% water", it will actually contain 15%, and one labelled as containing 15% will be one quarter water. It's a flat-out con.

Personally I don't have any issue with battery farming - it's all very well for wealthy, middle-class types to get all frothy about what they feed little Jasper & Jemima, but not everyone has the money to be able to buy free-range or organic (and Organic's the biggest con of the lot), so I wouldn't ban it, but what I do like to see is accurate labelling, so the consumer can make an informed choice. I tend to buy free-range chickens & eggs, only because I think the taste is better. But that's my personal choice, and I wouldn't remove the choice others have to do differently.

I’m also fortunate enough to have not one, but two, proper old-fashioned butchers within 5 mins drive of me, so I can get proper bacon, with rind. And proper pork too. Yum



WEIS markets here tried what they said was great for grilling- a meat slab--  pumped up with water.  I no longer see it in the stores.

I seen a documentary per the UK on how they were pumping the meat with water.

Even as it is- the scales I am not so sure are as precise as they claim they are.

and lately- the date codes seem to be very erratic.  

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:14:30 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Cook a free range egg and a not free range egg together in a pan.
There's no differance!

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:21:02 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

I read about this yesterday.

It is much like the myth of '100% pure Angus Beef'


I'm always disgusted to see things like this.  Then again, when you think about where most of our food today comes from... 

Here's a helpful tidbit of information.

FDA: Levels of natural or unavoidable defects in foods that present no health hazards for humans

It's enough to put you off food.  

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:21:29 AM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
Wow. I am so glad that I live where I do and I drive about 3 miles (or less) in any direction and buy eggs, meat, cheese, veggies, etc. from the actual grower of these products. So yes, I know for a fact my free range organic products are just that. There is such a huge difference in the taste of a gross flat yolked watery white egg to a plump golden yellow firm yolked egg from a local chicken I can't imagine even eating a grocery store egg again. Especially since I like mine barely cooked or even raw, like over beef tar-tare, which I also get from our local farmer.

Their might be a myth but that just means you have to just go to the source yourself, it's not that hard. I order half a cow and half a pig every year too from a local farmer. Way cheaper, and far tastier.




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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:33:20 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
Especially since I like mine barely cooked or even raw, like over beef tar-tare, which I also get from our local farmer.


I love steak tartare!

The breakfast of champions

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