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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:38:00 AM   
allthatjaz


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Aynne, that really is the way to buy if you can. Like you, we tend to be very cautious about what meat/dairy products we put in our mouths and we have taken the time to research whats what and that has enabled us to source green farmers where cattle and poultry are roaming. I agree about the difference in taste.

Rapier, I know what you mean about Jamie Oliver! Have you ever tried cooking one of his recipes?
Like you, food is very important to me. Eating a good meal is a celebration to the taste buds and that process of taste starts right back at the farm.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 8:45:41 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Rapier, I know what you mean about Jamie Oliver! Have you ever tried cooking one of his recipes?


Many times. He's actually one of my fave cooks, and one recipe of his is one of my fave meals of all time. However, if you're driving at what I think you are then yes, he does make (or rather, someone in his organisation does) a lot of mistakes in the recipes - it's important to approach them as "guides not bibles", and keep a look out for things being listed in the ingredients that the method never references, or amounts that are way too much, or way too little; he often substitutes tablespoon for teaspoon and vice-versa - I think this is likely an error in the sub-editing of his work, not necessarily his fault. Mind you, having said that, I've only ever found one error in a recipe by Saint Delia, which I emailed her about and got a very nice email in reply. No idea if it was her writing it, mind

But Jamie’s constant preaching and "I know best" attitude do get up my nose sometimes.

Yes, in an ideal world we'd all get everything straight from farms, free-range, but for various reasons (financial, location, etc) it's simply not possible for everyone to do that.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 9:22:25 AM   
allthatjaz


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I find he over does things. He takes some good basic ingredients and then disguises them with something inappropriate. I tried his macaroni cheese and its the only time I have ever had to apologize for my cooking! Since then I am skeptical about trying anything else.

Try Gordon Ramsay or his mentor, Raymond Blanc's recipes. These guys make good honest food taste incredibly good without using fancy ingredients.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 11/25/2010 9:23:01 AM >


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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 9:43:08 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I find he over does things. He takes some good basic ingredients and then disguises them with something inappropriate. I tried his macaroni cheese and its the only time I have ever had to apologize for my cooking! Since then I am skeptical about trying anything else.

Try Gordon Ramsay or his mentor, Raymond Blanc's recipes. These guys make good honest food taste incredibly good without using fancy ingredients.


Ah that's not typical of him but yes, he does sometimes seem to think that, just because something's a "classic", that doesn't mean he can't "improve" it.

He's at his best when doing good, solid, peasant food; "Jamie's Italy" is an excellent start for someone wanting to learn, and I've used it at least as often as my copy of The Silver Spoon.

He also does "fusion" (though he doesn't usually call it that) quite well too.

Edited to add: I find Blanc really fussy (sometimes), and Gordon's annoying, plus when I've tried Gordon versions of things and then other people's, I prefer the other person's interpretation, as per his pressed pork belly vs. Marco Pierre White's glazed pork belly.


< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 11/25/2010 9:45:17 AM >

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 11:23:25 AM   
allthatjaz


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Marco Pierre White's glazed pork belly Thanks for the tip. I'm going to give that a try. BTW you sound like a real cooking connoisseur!

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 11:33:31 AM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

I read about this yesterday.

It is much like the myth of '100% pure Angus Beef'

I gots some miscellaneous thoughts:

Interesting, but sensationalistic/reactionary article, especially when they ascribe human emotions to chickens.  Simple facts are enough to make the case.

BTW, how else do you slaughter chickens other than slitting their throats?  The old-school hatchet-on-stump maneuver?

I've heard the "free range" with a door practices before and share the disdain.  Surprisingly, low density housing in a chicken tractor is considered confinement, even though they are on grass and the tractor moved every one or two days.  Hell of a lot more humane that factory farms.

Egg farms here in Ohio have consistently been fined for inhumane practices, poor manure handling, excessive odors, etc. and have caused rat infestations in neighboring farms.  The farmers are often little more than serfs to the poultry provider (Tyson, etc.) And the only thing worse that factory chicken/egg farms are factory pig farms.

I've seen a few small free-range turkey farms in NW Ohio, and down here in SW Ohio.  Just like described, they're in an open field with a very small shelter, and maybe a few rows of corn.  It gets incredibly muddy and crappy; I just can't imagine wanting a turkey from there.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 11:34:19 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Marco Pierre White's glazed pork belly Thanks for the tip. I'm going to give that a try. BTW you sound like a real cooking connoisseur!


<modestly> ... I'm ok I guess. I started when I was 6 so there'd be something very wrong if I wasn't at least competent by now

I can do dishes from a wide variety of countries and regions. I can't usually be arsed with the really complex stuff, because the last few years I've come to believe that more simple, "peasant" cooking is some of the best - this was fired by visits to Italy. But on occasion I make the effort to produce something that takes a day (or more) to make, just to keep my skills sharp - I find if I don't practise regularly I lose the edge for high-quality cooking. Not sure why.

BTW for a good Jamie recipe, this is magical (but make your own Harissa paste coz it's miles better than shop-bought and keeps for ages in jars if you sterilise them as per jam making or in the fridge once opened);

http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/lamb-recipes/mechoui-lamb-with-carrot-and-orange-sala

And this is a video of Marco doing that belly pork, as it often helps me to watch what I'm supposed to be doing first - it also demonstrates clearly that there's something not quite right in the head with Marco, but I do love him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMAExXO3Fko

Edited to add: I always find I need to cook that roast belly pork for longer than Marco says (2-2.5 hours), and at a slightly higher temperature, but I think that's down to my oven.

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 11/25/2010 11:36:38 AM >

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 12:18:57 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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Quotes taken from the original link....

quote:


A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: “I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating sun, panting like mad. The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat larvae from. Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren wire cages. There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals.”


Interesting. Please note that this account was given on November 11, 2002 (as stated in the reference section of the article).

The videos below offers a different view...

Part one

Part two

Part three


quote:


After 3 days without food, birds at Polyface are stuffed into metal killing cones and brutally butchered, as in this picture of a terrified “free-range” rooster being cut to death with a knife.


Here's an example of how chickens are butchered at Polyface... *yes...this is a butchering video...don't watch if you're bothered by the reality of what it takes to get that lovely roasted chicken from the farm to your table.*

Polyface poultry kill cones

Please note, the carotid artery is cut quickly and cleanly and the bird is dead in a matter of seconds.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Joel Salatin and his farming practices at Polyface.

His farming approach, as discussed in this TEDtalk, is something more than a few farmers...both large and small...could learn from.

I get my eggs from a co-worker who raises the chickens in his backyard. I also get 2-3 whole chickens from him when it comes time to butcher. I just bought a load of lamb meat from a sheep farmer who's invited me to visit her farm tomorrow and check out her raw milk cheese making process. Next week I'll try to get my grass-fed beef for the winter from a farmer who's farm I toured last fall. I like to know who raises my food, where its raised and the theory/process behind the raising of said food.

It's not as expensive as some folks might think (I'm not independently wealthy, mind you)...just takes planning. For me, it's just common sense.

FWIW...Jamie Oliver annoys the crap out of me.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 12:38:01 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh
FWIW...Jamie Oliver annoys the crap out of me.


Oh me too. It's just that, as with art, one should, I think, be mature enough to separate the artist from the art

Wagner, anyone?

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 1:29:02 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

Quotes taken from the original link....

quote:


A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: “I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating sun, panting like mad. The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat larvae from. Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren wire cages. There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals.”


Interesting. Please note that this account was given on November 11, 2002 (as stated in the reference section of the article).

The videos below offers a different view...

Part one

Part two

Part three


quote:


After 3 days without food, birds at Polyface are stuffed into metal killing cones and brutally butchered, as in this picture of a terrified “free-range” rooster being cut to death with a knife.


Here's an example of how chickens are butchered at Polyface... *yes...this is a butchering video...don't watch if you're bothered by the reality of what it takes to get that lovely roasted chicken from the farm to your table.*

Polyface poultry kill cones

Please note, the carotid artery is cut quickly and cleanly and the bird is dead in a matter of seconds.

Yeah, I'm a fan of Joel Salatin and his farming practices at Polyface.

His farming approach, as discussed in this TEDtalk, is something more than a few farmers...both large and small...could learn from.

I get my eggs from a co-worker who raises the chickens in his backyard. I also get 2-3 whole chickens from him when it comes time to butcher. I just bought a load of lamb meat from a sheep farmer who's invited me to visit her farm tomorrow and check out her raw milk cheese making process. Next week I'll try to get my grass-fed beef for the winter from a farmer who's farm I toured last fall. I like to know who raises my food, where its raised and the theory/process behind the raising of said food.

It's not as expensive as some folks might think (I'm not independently wealthy, mind you)...just takes planning. For me, it's just common sense.

Unsurprising that the truth is different from the fiction supplied by the vegans. The site in the op is pretty standard vegan/PETA/animal rights crap. They seem to think all people are terribly gullible and will believe whatever lies that want to make.

It is good to see a farmer trying to produce poultry in a sustainable and humane manner.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 1:37:21 PM   
pahunkboy


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PETA ...man they gave a local farmer here HELL.

In the end ..the farmer won... but not with out a ton of legal fees.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:02:28 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

quote:


After 3 days without food, birds at Polyface are stuffed into metal killing cones and brutally butchered, as in this picture of a terrified “free-range” rooster being cut to death with a knife.


,,, Please note, the carotid artery is cut quickly and cleanly and the bird is dead in a matter of seconds.


I'd also like to mention that placing the chickens up-side-down also puts them into a kind of semi-conscious state. 

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 6:21:24 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I think its good that you pointed this out Lat. Meat animals sometimes need a human voice.

I think its a shame that the final part of that document was about becoming a vegan because there are other alternatives. If the consumers put enough pressure on the way our meat is farmed instead of allowing themselves to be misguided by labels, then perhaps these farmers would sit up and listen to what the consumer wants.



So long as you're able to pay the premium for that, of course. Many aren't.

The price of meat in the UK has rocketed the last few years - a decent rib-eye steak, for example, is now past the £16 a kilo mark. And lamb is (for domestic meat) into the £12-15+ a kilo bracket, depending on type and quality.

That's a shedload of money for not much meat.





Odd you say that, but I have been forced to go vegetarian, for I cannot afford meat, and fish, that is too expensive too, and there is no way I will eat the erm animal product mechanically recovered shapes in bread crumbs as befits my financial status. My theory is it costs to dump the left overs, so some bright spark thought it would be good to cover it in bread crumbs to hide it's texture and sell it to the public as wholesome food, oddly the majority of which is aimed at kids.So my maxim with food is if it doesnt look like a cut of meat, it is reformed whatever and if it is covered in bread crumbs stay well clear. So as a meat lover I am now vegetarian purely through cost and respect for my digestive system, but now and again, I will reat myself to a nice big steak, cook it rare with garlic and black pepper and serve it up with boiled baby new potatoes and a mediterranean salad, my favourite dish and if I am being really flash, a nice bottle of chateau neuf du pape goes down a treat.

But of meat that sits there on the supermarket shelves, ever notioced the nice red colour to lure one into the idea the stuff is fresh, well, that is a red dye that is added, for meat that has been dead how long, is not red, it is a browny colour, usually the meat one finds on offer, because no one will buy it, because they believe the colour should be red, brown is not appetising and some think it is going off. So with the water they inject to plump out the meat, add to that a dye to make it look fresh, beware supermarkets as they are the biggest scamsters out there, they are controlling the market, not the farmers.

My diet though largely vegetarian is more akin to an Asian or African diet, well the diet of the poor I suppose, for it largely rice and durum wheat based, cous cous, pasta, pollenta and the like. But one thing I have noticed with my diet, is my digestion has become better and I feel better, so maybe the forced vegetarianism might not have been a bad thing after all. But out for a meal tommorrow, the dance group xmas party annd there I surprised myself, from the menu, I have ordered vegetarian, well, it is Turkish cuisine, egg plant yum yum.


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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 7:12:31 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

I dunno if the issue is humaneness or nutritional value. Humaneness is out the window with me, as eating something just can't be made pleasant for it. I could stick a shank through it, squeeze it's guts out and set it up top of a campfire. You can't trust any of them for nutritional value. There is no guarantee that they have the nutrients to become good food for us.

However I recommend NOT going vegetarian these days. Perhaps under different circumstances, but today you can't. Details on request.

T

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 9:51:10 PM   
gungadin09


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For anyone who's interested, there is a very good book on this subject. "The River Cottage MEAT Cookbook", by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall." The first half of the book consists of political and informative writings about the meat industry. The second half consists of recipes. The guy is a chef and raises his own animals for slaughter. (NOT a vegetarian). He makes a well written and compelling argument for change in the meat industry, applied at the consumer level. i think it's the best book i've ever read on this subject. Check it out, if you're interested.

P.S.- To sum it up his argument, he states that the "organic" label is the surest measure of both meat's QUALITY (in culinary terms- flavor, texture, succulence) and it's PROVINENCE (i.e. not from a factory farm where the animals were raised by morally and environmentally questionable practices).

pam

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/25/2010 11:25:55 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


Wow. I am so glad that I live where I do and I drive about 3 miles (or less) in any direction and buy eggs, meat, cheese, veggies, etc. from the actual grower of these products. So yes, I know for a fact my free range organic products are just that. There is such a huge difference in the taste of a gross flat yolked watery white egg to a plump golden yellow firm yolked egg from a local chicken I can't imagine even eating a grocery store egg again. Especially since I like mine barely cooked or even raw, like over beef tar-tare, which I also get from our local farmer.

Their might be a myth but that just means you have to just go to the source yourself, it's not that hard. I order half a cow and half a pig every year too from a local farmer. Way cheaper, and far tastier.





Aynne, do they still have the Turner Egg Farm up there?

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/26/2010 2:49:43 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
BTW you sound like a real cooking connoisseur!


Believe it or not, that inspired me to try bread making again - it's always been a hole in my otherwise competent cooking skills.

Last night I finally managed to make Focaccia that couldn't be used as a substitute for Chobham armour.

I'd like to thank you for spurring me on to give it another bash

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/26/2010 3:07:12 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

For anyone who's interested, there is a very good book on this subject. "The River Cottage MEAT Cookbook", by Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall." The first half of the book consists of political and informative writings about the meat industry. The second half consists of recipes. The guy is a chef and raises his own animals for slaughter. (NOT a vegetarian). He makes a well written and compelling argument for change in the meat industry, applied at the consumer level. i think it's the best book i've ever read on this subject. Check it out, if you're interested.

P.S.- To sum it up his argument, he states that the "organic" label is the surest measure of both meat's QUALITY (in culinary terms- flavor, texture, succulence) and it's PROVINENCE (i.e. not from a factory farm where the animals were raised by morally and environmentally questionable practices).

In the UK, buying organic meat will cost you an arm and a leg. And several squishy body parts.

Hugh F-W is an absolute star though; falls victim to "The Jamie Effect" from time to time - can be a bit preachy and assume everyone has his millions, but he's a really, really clever chef. I've got several of his books, as well as a few under the "River Cottage" (his brand) label, including a superb one by a friend he made years ago called "Pam The Jam", whose preserves are a marvel, and her book on them is a modern classic.
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
pam


*shocked*

Not Pam The Jam?!

What I've done a lot of lately (as financial times are not great for me either ATM) is go back to more "traditional", cheaper cuts. For example, shin of beef is like boot leather, but slow cooked with wine & herbs it's one of the best casserole meats ever.

I've also liberated an old item I bought about a decade ago from the back of the cupboard; my pressure cooker. Stop sniggering at the back! Before everyone falls about in fits of laughter, they really are a godsend for doing stews, casseroles, and pulses (I do a lot of Indian cuisine, and they're superb for things like chickpeas and suchlike, such as in Channa Masala) ... a shin of beef casserole could take up to 4 hours as a simmer on the hob job, but 40-50 mins in the pressure cooker and it's job done, so you're saving lots of energy too, and that's expensive stuff these days.

BTW for anyone wanting to experiment with Indian food, this guy is an absolute star; his simple, easy to follow recipes and clear instructional videos are a godsend, and his slightly nutty presentation style and rather "variable" English pronunciation are a joy to behold:

http://www.vahrehvah.com/

Indians eat a lot of pulses and legumes, and a high proportion of them are vegetarian, so they're great for those on a budget who still want to eat interesting, varied meals, and if you buy things like chickpeas and pulses (dal) in their dried state then they're cheap as chips to prepare. Yes you have to buy a lot of spices to start with, but you don't use huge amounts in one go, so once you've built up your spicy store cupboard it's very cost-effective and, if you tone down the use of ghee (clarified butter) and salt they're also healthy meals.

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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/26/2010 3:35:52 AM   
Elisabella


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-FR-

Thank you for posting this. I always buy free range/cage free eggs because I feel it's worth the extra cost to support humane treatment, it really bothers me that they're just as bad and it's just a marketing technique.


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RE: The myth of 'Free Range' - 11/26/2010 4:26:15 AM   
gungadin09


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

What I've done a lot of lately (as financial times are not great for me either ATM) is go back to more "traditional", cheaper cuts. For example, shin of beef is like boot leather, but slow cooked with wine & herbs it's one of the best casserole meats ever.

I've also liberated an old item I bought about a decade ago from the back of the cupboard; my pressure cooker... a shin of beef casserole could take up to 4 hours as a simmer on the hob job, but 40-50 mins in the pressure cooker and it's job done, so you're saving lots of energy too, and that's expensive stuff these days.



i think that a lot of wise restaurants and home cooks have started doing this, nowadays. There's a lot to be said for digging up those old braise and stew recipes that make a cheap cut of meat go a long way... and taste fantastic too. Mostly, it just takes good planning.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 11/26/2010 4:27:59 AM >

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