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Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 8:35:47 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Can environmentalism be saved from itself?

Before they were sucked into the giant vortex of global warming, environmentalists did useful things. They protested against massive Third World dams that would ruin both natural and human habitats. They warned about invasive species and diseases that could tear through our forests and wreck our water systems. They fought for national parks and greenbelts and protected areas. They talked about the big things too – such as how the world could feed another three billion people without destroying all the rain forests and running out of water. They believed in conservation – conserving this beautiful planet of ours from the worst of human despoliation – rather than false claims to scientific certainty about the future, unenforceable treaties and radical utopian social reform.


How long do you think it will take for legitimate environmental concerns to be treated with any credibility again?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 8:37:20 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		As long as it takes for competing interests to drop their hyperbole as well.

And for people to listen for facts instead of spin.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:02:00 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:04:17 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Hyperbole like that.

Excellent example.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:10:34 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?


And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion. The "global warmers" have totally overlooked that problem.
Yet, our govt is using our money to feed hundreds of millions of people in foreign countries.
More people equals more polution.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:17:40 AM   
SorceressJ


Posts: 2968
Joined: 7/24/2010
Status: offline 		All environmental concerns are legitimate.

I loathe the news and 98% of cable. I do not subject myself to the hive mind, I just know what I see and feel going on around me. I do not usually subject myself to the P&R forums, either, and I have no interest in mudslinging so I will very likely not be back.

I am sane enough, alright, and the Earth is in trouble; what is happening is not a natural progression but a world of hurt badly exacerbated by human ignorance, apathy, and corproate greed.
Denial is a serious problem. Deny the facts, and be part of the problem.
Learn instead about what YOU can do to help the situation, and then DO it. Then, encourage others to act also.

Please find and read "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn.

That is all. Thank you. )O(



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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:33:23 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion.


We could start by saying, "OK, OK, let's give them the condoms," instead of opposing it like some huge moral crisis.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 9:53:35 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SorceressJ
the Earth is in trouble; what is happening is not a natural progression but a world of hurt badly exacerbated by human ignorance, apathy, and corproate greed.



Those would be the talking points, J. Thanks for driving by. Run along back to wherever you feel more comfortable.




_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SorceressJ)
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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 10:00:13 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		The fact is enviromentalists still campaign for everything they used to campaign for and all of that is still foughttooth and nail by the same folks who opposed it before. Another inescapable fact is that CO2 released by human activity is warming the planet and is effecting our economy and society and those effects will get worse as time goes by unless we stop putting more CO2 into the air and find some ways to reduce the amount already there.

The deniers of AGW have done a masterful job confusing a science illiterate society on the subject but the consensus of those with expertise in the fields in question is that anthrogenic CO2 is a threat to our civilization.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 11:14:26 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?


And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion. The "global warmers" have totally overlooked that problem.
Yet, our govt is using our money to feed hundreds of millions of people in foreign countries.
More people equals more polution.


Well perhaps thats compensation to those starving people who are far less likely to been the culprits of global warming.
Not all of us think of those people as 'useless feeders'


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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 11:43:58 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Give it up, Ken. By turning an environmental theory into a vehicle to try and impose a completely unrelated social agenda, you destroyed the credibilty of all those who actually gave a crap.

It's no good trying to sound rational now, not when you personally equated questions with holocaust denial.

You killed Mother Earth! How does that make you feel?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 11:54:15 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		What are you smoking? Somehow you think that the South Coast Air Board and the San Joaquim Valley Air Boards aren't still pressing for tighter enviromental regulations to improve air quality? Do you think that the effort to move off of large corporate farms and back to basic foods grown without the aid of pesticides and fertilizers aren't still happening? People on the Left get things done while people on the Right wring their hands over the issues and, do nothing.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 11:58:49 AM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Can environmentalism be saved from itself?

Before they were sucked into the giant vortex of global warming, environmentalists did useful things. They protested against massive Third World dams that would ruin both natural and human habitats. They warned about invasive species and diseases that could tear through our forests and wreck our water systems. They fought for national parks and greenbelts and protected areas. They talked about the big things too – such as how the world could feed another three billion people without destroying all the rain forests and running out of water. They believed in conservation – conserving this beautiful planet of ours from the worst of human despoliation – rather than false claims to scientific certainty about the future, unenforceable treaties and radical utopian social reform.


How long do you think it will take for legitimate environmental concerns to be treated with any credibility again?


I hate to tell you T.H., but they still do all those things. This concept of 'Climate Change' has been entirely lost on conservatives (ironic, since a 'conservative' should be 'one that conserves'). So they dumb the English down to a 6th grader's educational level and state: 'Global Warming'. But then conservatives shoot back "But it snowed a few days ago, disproving Globing Warming". And they feel all happy about their answer, not even knowing, how much of an idiot they look.

It really is disappointing that a rather large segment of America, is completely ignorant of science. Rather then learn what it is, and why it could be happening, this group of Americans allow others to think for them. The end result, is a group that blindly votes for structure, order, and concept, that further damages, rather then fixes the problem(s). They have been conditioned, to distrust goverment, the educated, and liberals (who ironically also, are for conservating things). Its like McCarthism all over, expect, replace 'commies' with 'goverment, the educated, and liberals'.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:02:32 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Better shit than you'll ever get your hands on, YngBlk.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:19:58 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		You're right about them dumbing it down, Jo, but you miss the part where the dumbed down version was then presented as an absolute, and anyone who raised little things like previous warm periods in human history, or the geologic record of climate change as the norm for our planet, being labeled a denier. They were worse than Sunday School Baptists in their demand for blind acceptance of fundamentalist idiocy, and it has crashed into a heap of rubble.

The simplifications just illustrate the contempt of the enviro-fascists for those whom they would dictate to.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:36:52 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?


And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion. The "global warmers" have totally overlooked that problem.
Yet, our govt is using our money to feed hundreds of millions of people in foreign countries.
More people equals more polution.


Well perhaps thats compensation to those starving people who are far less likely to been the culprits of global warming.
Not all of us think of those people as 'useless feeders'


While I agree with your assessment of poopey's comments about the needs for a cull of the untermensch who are ruining the party for those of us in the elte, I'd question that the vermin he's on about have no hand in environmental change. If you want to see destructive technologies in action, have a wander up the Amazon and see how many guys you can find with a goat, a machete and six children. That's deforestation in action...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:46:29 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?


And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion. The "global warmers" have totally overlooked that problem.
Yet, our govt is using our money to feed hundreds of millions of people in foreign countries.
More people equals more polution.



It would appear that you are upset that the corporate farmers have bribed congress to get the taxpayers to buy their excess production and give it to others.
I have also noticed that you continue to breath the air on this planet and have not elected to do what you want others to do...stop breathing.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:50:35 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But when we have an entire generation of young people who learned that all the "facts" they were taught (and encouraged to browbeat their elders with) were nothing but spin all along, Muse?


And nothing's going to happen until we get the population down by a couple billion. The "global warmers" have totally overlooked that problem.
Yet, our govt is using our money to feed hundreds of millions of people in foreign countries.
More people equals more polution.


Well perhaps thats compensation to those starving people who are far less likely to been the culprits of global warming.
Not all of us think of those people as 'useless feeders'




ATJ, and one of the worst things we can do is to bring those people to industrialized countries where one of the first things many of them do is buy vehicles and start driving. Of course the "global warmers" never want to talk about that either.
Look at China, that's where the "g.w.s" need to be! Their polution is far worse than anything we have in the U.S. Brazil too.
The "g.w.s" don't want to talk about China or Brazil either. They only want to try to lecture the cleanest first world countries for whatever reason!
So they'll go to Denmark or Ireland instead of Brazil which is heavily poluted.
The U.S. is so clean now that we really can disolve the E.P.A.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:50:58 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Better shit than you'll ever get your hands on, YngBlk.



Perhaps that is the reason you are so irrational most of the time.

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RE: Getting back to the basics of saving the planet - 11/28/2010 12:55:05 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
The U.S. is so clean now that we really can disolve the E.P.A.


So that BP oil spill you "independents" were bitching about for two months solid earlier in the year didn't happen and everyybody just imagined that, then?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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