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ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Now I understand the Israeli concerns about security and there the desire to prevent weapons or things that can be made into weapons falling into the hands of the militant factions in Gaza, but I just have to ask, why are  fishing rods, nets and  ropes, musical instruments and A4 paper prevented, pray tell me what danger those items present to Israeli security.

Unless of course the reason is economic blockade, the desire to prevent the Gazans from being independant in their food requirements and prevent businesses growing and becoming some sort of economy, as is indicated by a ban on anything farming and many of the things we in our world take for granted. Could it be if any money is to be made in Gaza, then it is for Israel to supply and no one else.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Cement is banned?
The Israelis are anticementic?

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Now I understand the Israeli concerns about security and there the desire to prevent weapons or things that can be made into weapons falling into the hands of the militant factions in Gaza, but I just have to ask, why are  fishing rods, nets and  ropes, musical instruments and A4 paper prevented, pray tell me what danger those items present to Israeli security.

Unless of course the reason is economic blockade, the desire to prevent the Gazans from being independant in their food requirements and prevent businesses growing and becoming some sort of economy, as is indicated by a ban on anything farming and many of the things we in our world take for granted. Could it be if any money is to be made in Gaza, then it is for Israel to supply and no one else.

Money is not a reason to enforce the blockade as it has hurt Israel's reputation internationally including its business interests. BTW I heard the claim that paper was disallowed but it is untrue AFAIK. Here is a listing of shipments by Israel into Gaza from 2009 before the restrictions were loosened which mentions paper and shipment of materials of make paper: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2009/Increased_humanitarian_aid_Gaza_after_IDF_operation_Jan_2009

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

There have been improvements on what is and is not allowed into Gaza, prohibited items being those that are weapons or dual use, (can be made into weapons).But whatever has been said by the Israeli government to ease worldwide concerns, there are charges that no one has told those on the ground, for they still act independantly of what the Israeli government has told the international community.

But for general information a list of those items that according to those who supply Gaza are now allowed in and what is not, as to an official list it does not exist or is not available for the world to see, as so far the Israeli government has refused to publish ;

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Yes, A4 paper is allowed to enter Gaza along with some other prohibited items if it was for the sole use of  foreign aid agencies or interests in the region, which is basically saying the foreigners in your land can have the stuff they need, but you can't in your own land, hmmm, if that is not an economic attack on the people of Gaza what is it ?

Source of information ; http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf

Note: Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005, whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians, especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by international and Israeli law.

Since the 1967 occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Israel's military has developed a complex system of rules and sanctions to control the movement of the 3.4 million Palestinians who live there. The restrictions violate the fundamental right of Palestinians to freedom of movement. As a result, additional basic rights are violated, including the right to life, the right to access medical care, the right to education, the right to livelihood, the right to family unity and the right to freedom of religion.   Gisha, whose name means both "access" and "approach," uses legal assistance and public advocacy to protect the rights of Palestinian residents. Because freedom of movement is a precondition for exercising other basic rights, Gisha’s work has a multiplier effect in helping residents of the occupied territories access education, jobs, family members and medical care.   As part of its legal work, Gisha represents individuals and organizations in Israeli administrative proceedings and courts. Gisha’s legal activity is based on Israeli law, international human rights and humanitarian law.   As part of its advocacy work, Gisha reaches out to members of the public and opinion-makers using publications in various media, in order to promote awareness and sensitivity for human rights in the occupied territories. Gisha also advocates directly before decision-makers to promote policies that respect human rights.   Gisha is operated by a professional staff and guided by a board that includes legal academics and practitioners, women and men, Arabs and Jews, who have helped shape Israeli human rights law through their advocacy and writings.   Gisha is registered in Israel as an independent, non-partisan, not-for-profit organization. Gisha is generously supported by donations from Israel and abroad.

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But for those who choose to deny or discard the efforts of Israeli's who wish to see an end to their government's disgusting actions towards another ethnicity, could they please give me a good reason why items such as fishing rods and musical instruments are included on the list of prohibited items ?

And cement, yes, it does prevent the building of bomb shelters, but is it any wonder so many people in Gaza could not find suitable cover from shells and bombs during operation Cast Lead, for bomb shelters do not only shelter combatants, but civilians too.

But as to more tactical bomb shelters for the sole use of combatants, hey, is anyone telling me Israel does not have the technical and tactical ability to target and completely destroy a hardened shelter from the air, you know, lazer guided bomb technology as was used to such effect by Allied forces in wars against Saddam Hussein. These weapons render concrete bomb shelters irrelevant, so it kind of makes a mockery of the reason not to alloy cement into Gaza under the guise of it can be used to make bomb shelters, unless the civilian population is the desired target for destruction or demoralisation by denying them the right to repair their infrastructure.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras


If they allowed in materials for the manufacture of paper then it seems to me that any restrictions in distribution wouldn't be enforced. As far as I know the use of cement was controlled by internationals but I have heard nothing similar re. paper. If it is true maybe they only wanted international schools teaching children when Palestinian schoold teach incitement as NJ20's links show. BTW the reason I find the stuff about the restriction of paper unlikely is because Gaza has several newspapers which have continued operating.

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I notice you keep citing this NGO called Gisha which I have never heard of and you even pasted a lot of unnecessary detail about its background. You must think that because it is Israeli it must be beyond reproach. However, other Israeli NGO’s like Bt’Selem are very aggressively anti-Israeli as are sections of the media and especially academia. For example Tel Aviv’s Philosophy Department is a hot bed of very nasty stuff indeed and funds the studies (from the tax payers pockets) of one Omar Barghoutti, one of the most famous pro-Palestinian advocates in the world who started the BDS movement and has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel. Its fair to say an NGO being Israeli does not automatically give it any greater moral authority. The fact that Gisha’s website says things like “As a result, additional basic rights are violated, including the right to life, the right to access medical care, the right to education, the right to livelihood, the right to family unity and the right to freedom of religion.” suggests it is extremely biased because whilst some of these are concerns in Gaza due to blockade they are not in most of the so called OPT.

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I have a few issues with your arguments here. Firstly the report from Gisha related to the situation prior to the Gaza Flotilla incident when imports were much more restrictive. Israel did indeed curtail what was imported excessively and I for one welcome the liberalisation of imports. However, the list was of allowed items and limited in its scope. It covered basic food stuffs and a few other essentials making just over 100 items if what I heard is true. It was also fairly arbitrary in nature as Israel did not allow in things like potato chips and cookies, while allowing healthy items like diet yogurt and herbal tea. It remains that the list was ill conceived and limited but the question of whether it was designed to cause pain to Gazan's is not necessarily a given. Unless you want to accuse Israel of being health fascists who wanted to improve the diet and health of Gazan's by not allowing biscuits and crisps, I can't really see that the selection was designed to impose undue hardship within the context of foodstuffs, although it is of course unfair to limit choice with regard to such items. Perhaps limiting the range of goods allowed in a greater abundance of essentials but only Israel could answer that. I'll take your word re. fishing rods etc. but AFAIK the system was designed to allow in a limited number of goods (mainly foodstuffs) rather than it being an outright ban on the items you mention. Thus other items not on the lists weren't allowed by virtue of not being on the list so it was an effective ban in practice if not necessarily in intent. This rigid system was wrong in itself by not banning problematic items instead of having a list of allowed items only, and this was made worse by it being very restrictive but may have been envisiged as an efficient streamlined list to get basics into Gaza - after all feeding and providing fuel for 1.4 million people continuously is a big endeavour so it needn't necessarily have been a method of punishment.

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There are bunker busting bombs but it is nonetheless the case that bunkers are a very effective military tool where there is a ground invasion so the Israeli concern about cement is still valid. Israel's priority is to destroy Hamas - by giving it the materials needed to fight more effectively even if they can also be used for civilian protection is in effect asking the IDF to deliberately score an own-goal. Israel did not carpet bomb Gaza and typically gave prior warning to civilians that it was bombing areas which is a sort of substitute.

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ORIGINAL: MasterNJ20

If the UN was willing to take action against Hamas' rocket fire, Israel would have nothing to be aggressive against and the situation would quickly diffuse...or Israel would show itself as the racist nation Hertz claims it is and basically declare war on the world by attacking UN troops. Either way the situation should end relatively quickly.

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ORIGINAL: MasterNJ20
In seriousness, cement is banned as to stop bomb shelters from being built so it is not allowed in freely.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Cement is banned?
The Israelis are anticementic?

Never thought I'd be posting a laugh-smiley on a thread about the Israel/Palestine conflict.  Well done!

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin



 So you are telling me that there are people who in Israel are actually against their Government and the IDF's stance towards the Palestinian people other than the non partisan organisation I quoted, I find that just excellent, thank you for informing me  there are more in Israel who see those that govern them and say they act in their defence are doing what they are doing against many of their citizens wishes. My faith in good ordinary people is enhanced and with that the problem that the world sees is just a paranoid right wing racist government that is losing ground from within and from without.