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RE: Wikileaks - 12/8/2010 3:58:54 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Some people may need to consider these issues in a more measured way.


You could start trying your own advice.

I made it quite clear what I am refering to, but I shall repeat myself. Wiki published a list of assets that the US considers vital to them. Many of these are companies overseas that contribute in some way, due to the trade they have with America. It is these companies, most of them what would be regarded as soft targets, whose personnel could find themselves in danger.

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/8/2010 5:16:36 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Wiki published a list of assets that the US considers vital to them.

Lemme see. I am the USA and I want some of the Muslim terrorist groups that I have financed, to attack one of my soft targets, so that I have an excuse to liberate their country, only they are too stupid to know what to attack. Ah, I have got it! I ask HC to have GI Joe hand deliver a bundle of e-mails concerning which politician picks his nose and similar nonsense to Wikileaks and I have her insert into that bundle a list of assets that I want them to attack.

Okay, some people swallowed the bait hook, line and sinker. Now to order some of them cruise missiles and smart bombs for the next liberation.


< Message edited by Rule -- 12/8/2010 5:17:12 PM >

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/8/2010 8:02:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


We don't hear any calls in the US for action against the editor or publisher of the New York Times, or other media outlets.



Actually there were plenty of calls for sanctions against media that released stolen documents. Selective enforcement is a bitch.


The calls didn't make the media here in Australia.

Prosecuting Assange and not prosecuting the media who published the leaks would be an obvious injustice imho.

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/8/2010 8:15:20 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Some people may need to consider these issues in a more measured way.


You could start trying your own advice.

I made it quite clear what I am refering to, but I shall repeat myself. Wiki published a list of assets that the US considers vital to them. Many of these are companies overseas that contribute in some way, due to the trade they have with America. It is these companies, most of them what would be regarded as soft targets, whose personnel could find themselves in danger.


Do you really think that the locals might be unaware of that? And if this info is so important why do millions of people have access to it already?

A list of that nature is hardly likely to be news to anyone. And prolly nothing that a little research on the Net wouldn't generate. Any radical worth taking seriously anywhere would have had knowledge of such companies from the day they opened their doors for business. And prolly learnt about it initially from the local paper/media/gossip.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/8/2010 8:25:07 PM >


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RE: Wikileaks - 12/9/2010 6:59:54 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

Do you really think that the locals might be unaware of that? And if this info is so important why do millions of people have access to it already?

A list of that nature is hardly likely to be news to anyone. And prolly nothing that a little research on the Net wouldn't generate. Any radical worth taking seriously anywhere would have had knowledge of such companies from the day they opened their doors for business. And prolly learnt about it initially from the local paper/media/gossip.

Yeah for some reason we think "The bad guys" haven't brain cell one because the sun has baked their brains evidently.

The government would turn John Glenn farting into some sort of critical leak of national security if they thought it would further their control over it's people.

Who knows..as someone has stated..It may have been planned and intentionally leaked for multiple benefits.


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RE: Wikileaks - 12/9/2010 11:32:29 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Lemme see. I am the USA and I want some of the Muslim terrorist groups that I have financed, to attack one of my soft targets, so that I have an excuse to liberate their country, only they are too stupid to know what to attack. Ah, I have got it! I ask HC to have GI Joe hand deliver a bundle of e-mails concerning which politician picks his nose and similar nonsense to Wikileaks and I have her insert into that bundle a list of assets that I want them to attack.

Okay, some people swallowed the bait hook, line and sinker. Now to order some of them cruise missiles and smart bombs for the next liberation.



Another tosspot who thought 9/11 was carried out by US agents. You need to get a grip on reality.  

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/9/2010 11:35:40 AM   
Politesub53


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I agree that terrorists are smarter than we give them credit for. Thats why we are still in Afghanistan and got bogged down in Iraq. I still think media outlets have a duty of care regards publication of company names ect ect.

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/9/2010 1:29:01 PM   
rulemylife


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WikiLeaks: Amateurs the new face of cyber war?

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/9/2010 9:08:13 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I agree that terrorists are smarter than we give them credit for. Thats why we are still in Afghanistan and got bogged down in Iraq. I still think media outlets have a duty of care regards publication of company names ect ect.


Doesn't that being us back to the original questions?

Who is harmed by the leaks? Mainly governments especially the US Govt.

Who wrote the damaging material? The US Govt and its employees

Who leaked the material? An employee of the US Govt.

Has anyone been physically harmed as a result of the leaks? AFAIK to date, no one.

So why is Assange/Wikileaks being singled out for persecution?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/9/2010 9:09:35 PM >


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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 10:29:56 AM   
Icarys


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxPB9yy7IJ4&feature=youtu.be

As far as I know you can't charge a foreigner with treason but I know they'll try..nor can could you charge an American citizen with it either if they weren't the one who acted to get the information in the first place. No doubt the laws will be amended in such a wide way as to include whatever they wish it to say in the near future...Politics have been a plague on humanity as far as I'm concerned...Nothing but another form of control over the masses.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/10/2010 10:35:27 AM >


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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 11:21:46 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has anyone been physically harmed as a result of the leaks? AFAIK to date, no one.



This is my whole point, just because no one has been harmed as yet, it doesnt mean they wont be in the future.

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 12:28:58 PM   
SleazeMerchant


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God forbid should journalists actually do journalism any more and report things that are going on in the world. We can't have the average person walking around armed with the truth, they'll be less likely to be complict and docile if they knew what was really going on...

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 1:22:49 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has anyone been physically harmed as a result of the leaks? AFAIK to date, no one.



This is my whole point, just because no one has been harmed as yet, it doesnt mean they wont be in the future.


Best classify everything as above top secret. Can't be too safe...

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 4:11:28 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Best classify everything as above top secret. Can't be too safe...


If you read the threads on Wiki, you will see I have never suggested that. No doubt you think anything is publishable and damn the outcome.


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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 7:50:45 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Best classify everything as above top secret. Can't be too safe...


If you read the threads on Wiki, you will see I have never suggested that. No doubt you think anything is publishable and damn the outcome.



So, in your view, are the (as yet unproven) risks of such a magnitude that they justify usurping the freedom of the Internet?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/10/2010 7:52:01 PM >


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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 9:22:03 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


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I'm glad to see people don't support a free press.

Huzzah for freedom. .




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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 10:47:14 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SleazeMerchant

God forbid should journalists actually do journalism any more and report things that are going on in the world.




Yes, that.


But the rest here is concerning the machinations at play in this contrived and masterfully convoluted Peyton Place* international school play theater that this whole comedy is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Julian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

"You might think it strange that Sarah would want to throw a party (the next day Ed.) in honour of the man about whom she would later make a complaint to police concerning their liaison the night before."


Then more about Anna Ardin  (called "Jessica" in this article, the second woman) calling Assange and setting up their whole affair, and tweeting about how wonderful it was for days afterward, likewise Sarah. Both made valiant efforts to erase their posts later, but it's all over the internet now.

Ardin called "Sarah" (knowing the relationship there) and informed her of  new boyfriend's infidelity firsthand, and suggested procedure for vengeance, which was also noted later on their facebook entries, after the earlier celebrations of same.

But it only gets more interesting as we hear from others outside the directed scope of this.


* A US drama series on the television from late 50's to late 60's, essentially a more fleshed out soap opera broadcast in prime time.



 

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/10/2010 11:44:25 PM >

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/10/2010 11:39:55 PM   
Edwynn


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CM is about 15 years behind the times as to how forums work, so for technical reasons that would take too long to explain, this is a continuation of the above.


This is an excerpt from a forum that I'm not providing the link for because it involves my profession, but it is from a Swedish citizen.

"With our Swedish laws being a bit odd and different from other countries, to begin with he has not yet been charged with rape. Only accused. This discrepancy compared to British law has caused some issues already.

The scenario is apparently that he had consensual sex a couple of times with this woman, and then afterwards he woke up in the middle of the night and "hit it on" again while she was asleep. No violence was involved, in any way. Since she wanted sex earlier that evening and night, he probably thought it to be OK. (She was the one that actively contacted him and tried to step into his life, btw) And it seems it was OK until a few days later, when she found out he had been sexing it on with another woman. When they both found out they weren't planned to become his wife they started the whole carousel. There are SMS and Twitter messages from the women after the rape and molestation dates where they were braggingly and happily mentioning Assange in a positive way. Only several days later, once the women got together, it became rape and so forth.

The initial prosecutor dropped the charges immediately, the second one didn't. There were leaks from the police to the press at this time. Between this, a highly questionable lawyer took charge of the women and their case (whith is really not theirs anymore). This man has said that the women did not know if they had been raped or not, because they are not lawyers. (I kid you not) Assange stayed in Sweden for forty days waiting to be heard a second time, nothing happened until he left the country. (There was no legal cause hindering him to do so, either)

And since a rape accusation in Sweden automatically becomes a public accusation, the woman is out of the picture and the prosecution will own and lead the case even if the woman would take it all back. The lawyer can run such an errand for ages, and get paid while doing so. This in itself is a sad state of affairs that has negative consequences on every serious accusation of rape, but that's Sweden for you. (The former politician and lawyer of the two women, he owns a law firm together with another politician, they actually created this new law and then they started a law firm that specialised in these kind of cases...)

Go figure."


And even more interesting:

http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2010/12/04/assanges-chief-accuser-has-her-own-history-with-us-funded-anti-castro-groups-one-of-which-has-cia-ties/


Miss Ardin has an interesting educational and professional history, to say the least, and also an intriguing way of finding finance for her world travels for both education and magical appearances in certain locations at the most convenient times for her sponsors. She even had enough travel expense account to provide for Assange's travel tickets to accommodate their affair, and then for her to escape most recently to the West Bank and leave the idiots in Sweden high and dry. It just shows what you can do with an anti-Castro grad thesis and then go about signing up with every leftist organization you can, so the media later gets confused and would try to claim that a leftist and Assange accuser must be legit in her claim because she's a leftist, so because she's sympathetic to the cause and would normally be forgiving, if she says rape, it must actually be that the bastard raped her.


But as to the event, she then called "Sarah" and says "your boyfriend fucked me a few days ago, how does that sit with you? Oh shit! You're pissed off? Let's go to the police, I have a plan ... "

But it just keeps getting even more interesting.


http://investmentwatchblog.com/really-arrest-warrant-for-sex-crimes-against-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-is-only-for-sex-without-a-condom/


The above link explains what the Swedish poster in my earlier post here was talking about regarding the law firm, and how they set up the law firm to accommodate those seeking redress under a law they created in the first place. Who says Europeans can't learn anything from the American way of doing business?

I'll paste a response from another Swedish citizen from the link immediately preceding:


Interesting conspiracy tidbits on the Swedish “rape” charges -
1. The original prosecutor in charge, Eva Finné, dropped the charges the same week they were made and stated they were groundless.
2. The two women who accused Assange, Anna Ardin and Sofia Wilen, know each other. (Note: these names are public now so this isn’t breaking news).
3. Eva Finné was removed from the case by Claes Borgström and a new prosecutor, Marianne Ny, was appointed. Her first act was to reinstate the charges.
4. Claes Borgström is a former politician. His law partner is Thomas Bodström. Thomas Bodström is Sweden’s former Minister of Justice.
5. Thomas Bodström is currently in the USA. One could assume he is communicating and coordinating things with his partner back in Sweden.
6. It is Swedish protocol not to release the names of people accused of rape until after a conviction. The Swedish prosecutors office claims they have “no idea” how Assange’s name was leaked.

7. Normally Swedish media will not publish an accused’s name until after a conviction. Swedish media is controlled by a single ruling class family named Bonnier who work closely with local politicians to protect their media monopoly.
8. Claes Borgström’s two sisters, Annette Kullenberg and Kerstin Vinterhed, both work for Bonnier family newspapers.
9. Anna Ardin and Thomas Bodström are high ranking members of the right wing Christian political organization “Socialdemokrat-Brödraskapet”.
10. Claes Borgström is a right wing politician whose push for larger big brother powers for the Swedish state were leaked by Wikileaks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bodstr%C3%B6m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claes_Borgstr%C3%B6m http://www.aklagare.se/Media/Nyheter/Assange-arendet-fragor-och-svar/ (In Swedish – the Swedish justice department says they did not release Assange’s name and try to explain why Eva Finné was removed)

http://henrikalexandersson.blogspot.com/2010/08/assange-affaren-far-en-inrikespolitisk.html (In Swedish – a Swedish blogger traces the reasons for Ardin, Borgström, and Bodström’s apparent vendetta against Wikileaks and Assange)





Lets review and consider one last item there;


9. Anna Ardin  (the second accuser, who called up the first and said "I fucked your boyfriend") and Thomas Bodström , who sponsored and wrote these laws and then set up practice to profit from them, are high ranking members of the right wing Christian political organization “Socialdemokrat-Brödraskapet”.



This is just too much fun.


But I'll say this

Everybody seems to be worried about the safety of Assange, but history tells us the story of another anti-Castro figure that got displayed as a 'leftist,' and look what happened to him.


Keep you head low, Ms. Ardin.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/11/2010 12:16:41 AM >

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/11/2010 1:14:16 AM   
hertz


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Interesting and informative post, Edwynn...

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RE: Wikileaks - 12/11/2010 1:50:26 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

Keep you head low, Ms. Ardin.




Sorry, I can't edit more than a couple of times, due to the Family Dollar software for this forum, but I meant to say;

"Keep your head low,  Ms. Ardin."







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