RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic

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pahunkboy -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:00:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Tho it still sounds cheaper then UK proposed costs- depending if you have a place to stay... and residency. Depends if you want a mickey-mouse degree from a mickey mouse institution, or not. If you want a good degree from a respected institution then, on either side of the Atlantic, it's going to cost. Don't worry though. I doubt very much it's a quandary you'll ever have to face. back home its still cheap, we havent had fees until 3-5 years ago and now they are only at €1k per year and I couldnt agree less with a la costing more is automatically better, considering in my two apprentice ships at home I had to work much harder for eg. in law exams where we had to be able to apply the law out of law books with no written comments in it,if we want a chance to get through, whereas here personal notes in whatever way, shape and form were allowed and then many spoon fed students being shocked in final year to have one closed book exam at last [8\|] just think- if you were part of Harvard/Yale- you could have made possible the derivatives collapse. I guess having a car is not ample transit-- unless it is a Bentley-- with a jar of grey poupon, life just is not worth living. HA!

CerVeza -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:02:43 AM)
As Lady Thatcher once said ... socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples' money. In the USA, the lower 50 percent income level pays 3 percent of the taxes. The upper 50 percent pay 97 percent of the taxes. So when odumbo the magnificent (aka, "Dear Leader") talks out of his ass about tax breaks for "the rich" ( you know, anybody with a job ) that's the only place you can cut taxes. For leftists who are supposed to be all so caring and smart, they sure are stupid. And, you can't fix stupid. You can fix ignorant, but not stupid. Thus, the election of November. And more to come in 2012!

pahunkboy -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:08:38 AM)
..and the biggest screamers against programs are the absolute first in line for such programs! Thats a fact.

rulemylife -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:11:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CerVeza As Lady Thatcher once said ... socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples' money. In the USA, the lower 50 percent income level pays 3 percent of the taxes. The upper 50 percent pay 97 percent of the taxes. So when odumbo the magnificent (aka, "Dear Leader") talks out of his ass about tax breaks for "the rich" ( you know, anybody with a job ) that's the only place you can cut taxes. For leftists who are supposed to be all so caring and smart, they sure are stupid. And, you can't fix stupid. You can fix ignorant, but not stupid. Thus, the election of November. And more to come in 2012! Have you noticed all your posts are nearly identical?

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:12:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy LadyC.!! I so hear you about T3. I mean it is beyond belief! The DRs here - most are going by the OLD guidelines. It sucks- because it is only 1/2 the treatment for what is a very burdensome condition. You have the same problem here, it's made worse by the fact that a GP is not allowed to give you the oh so dangerous thyroxin (or whatever the brand name is in the respective country) they can get into serious trouble if they do, anybody even a secretary can report them. The guidelines are significantly different than in other countries, in all fairness due to being surrounded by the sea, it doesn't happen all that often in the UK than it happens in the alps (iodine in food and water I think), so if your readings read "normal" for their guidelines you will not get to see a specialist, because them transferring you to a specialist seems to go away from their budget, so they want to avoid it. Also only a specialist can get a lab to do the T3 - you can't even say "I pay privately", you can order a test kit from another country and send it, but the problem is the NHS won't recognize it because it is not done by them... I really feel for anybody in the UK who doesn't have the resources to leave the country with a thyroid condition and has not an open minded GP. What makes the situation worse is that Thyroid meds cost next to nothing, but since they are so shackled by guidelines, they can't give you that, so they have to find other ways, hormones, anti-depressants, etc. They are expensive, make the problem worse and cause all sorts of side effects, which again cost money to fix.... A non working thyroid messes up your whole body It's a condition mainly women have after hormonal changes (mine kicked in right after puberty) so, puberty, after birth, sometimes after hormonal birth control, menopause, etc. So the symptoms are always easily explained with something else and the root of the problem is not treated...

mnottertail -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:15:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CerVeza In the USA, the lower 50 percent income level pays 3 percent of the taxes. The upper 50 percent pay 97 percent of the taxes. Did you get these figures from O'Dipshit dot org or what? Because the latest figures from the IRS on taxes actually collected by bracket make you out to be extraordinarily ill-informed.

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:18:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CerVeza As Lady Thatcher once said ... socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples' money. In the USA, the lower 50 percent income level pays 3 percent of the taxes. The upper 50 percent pay 97 percent of the taxes. So when odumbo the magnificent (aka, "Dear Leader") talks out of his ass about tax breaks for "the rich" ( you know, anybody with a job ) that's the only place you can cut taxes. For leftists who are supposed to be all so caring and smart, they sure are stupid. And, you can't fix stupid. You can fix ignorant, but not stupid. Thus, the election of November. And more to come in 2012! Winston Churchil said: The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. You never told us that you had a chat with him, you must be older than you look...

RapierFugue -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:19:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze About a year ago a headhunter contacted me, NHS in your neck of the woods needed a PR person, the crux of the matter was (apart from that I didn't want to work for them anyway and the money wasn't that great) that they wanted me to give a PP about the NHS, what the problems are and how to fix it, and I had 30 minutes for it. I decided to be honest and told them that in 30 minutes I couldn't even scratch the surface and thank you very much, I rather pass... Rule One of dealing with the NHS: no-one who has been in or around it for less than 5 years has a fucking clue what they're talking about. It's so monumentally complex an organisation that even industry experts have difficulty working out which bit does what and why, and the golden rule, proved to me over the last 12 years I've been working for and with it, is that anyone who claims to know what they're doing in terms of making "fast savings" usually hasn't got a grasp of the facts. Or is a fuckwit. Or, often, both [;)] Stephen Dorrell is, despite being a Tory, something of an expert on the NHS, and his language in select committee yesterday was vastly toned down from the government's rah-rah PR crap of late; I suspect he's more than aware of how bad things are going to get, but won't cause the party problems by saying so publically.

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:41:55 AM)
They do need to do something with the NHS, the disaster with the computer programs cost them how much? It's clearly not working and other systems work better, why not compare systems, slash and cut some arts and boost other parts? I think that thinking of "Oh but we were the first with a national health, so we can't take advise from other countries or systems" gets in the way. Tories and New Labour alike haven't managed to change much with the NHS, but anybody claiming that the NHS is fine clearly has no idea. I was wondering why the people in the UK take it, in most other countries you would have a riot on your hands if you had a system that is so messed up, and a couple of people said "It's what we're used to, we don't know it any different..." I think that's the problem with the people in the NHS as well. And if you ask me, they don't need PR, they would need a magician spin doctor to explain away the problems and make it look remotely less disastrous, waste of money, they should rather concentrate on fixing the problems. Prevention costs but it costs less than curing actual diseases...

RapierFugue -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 11:59:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze They do need to do something with the NHS, the disaster with the computer programs cost them how much? It's clearly not working and other systems work better, why not compare systems, slash and cut some arts and boost other parts? I think that thinking of "Oh but we were the first with a national health, so we can't take advise from other countries or systems" gets in the way. You're making the same mistakes everyone does when they talk about the NHS - it simply isn't like anything else, either in scope or operation, and "better" is an ill-defined term. The last "brief" briefing I wrote to try to enumerate the most serious, most easily understood issues ran to 150 pages of packed 10-point, and I pack a lot into a small space, briefing-wise, so I'll not bore anyone with the root causes, or any proposed solutions, coz I'll end up ranting away trying to correct people for hours on end, and I don't fancy that. But it's ok; they don't even listen to people who do know what they're talking about, so it'll most likely soldier on for a bit until it dies a long, slow, painful death ... much like its patients nearer that time [;)]

Phoenixpower -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze They do need to do something with the NHS, the disaster with the computer programs cost them how much? It's clearly not working and other systems work better, why not compare systems, slash and cut some arts and boost other parts? I think that thinking of "Oh but we were the first with a national health, so we can't take advise from other countries or systems" gets in the way. Tories and New Labour alike haven't managed to change much with the NHS, but anybody claiming that the NHS is fine clearly has no idea. I was wondering why the people in the UK take it, in most other countries you would have a riot on your hands if you had a system that is so messed up, and a couple of people said "It's what we're used to, we don't know it any different..." I think that's the problem with the people in the NHS as well. And if you ask me, they don't need PR, they would need a magician spin doctor to explain away the problems and make it look remotely less disastrous, waste of money, they should rather concentrate on fixing the problems. Prevention costs but it costs less than curing actual diseases... adores LadyConstanze I so hear you...if I'd ever have life-threatening healthproblems i would fly home, get registered unemployed (as that gives me healthcare at home) and get treated there. I couldnt believe it when here people have legally fight for good cancer drugs dependent on your postcode and am glad that granny got treated at home in two bed rooms followed by single room when she reached her final days. Last year i visited a friend in rehab after a stroke and was shocked...compared to her place my dads rehab 22 years ago, after a slipped disc, was a 5 star hotel and unqualified care staff for the elderly doesnt exist at home as they have to do a similar qualification to what nurses have to do...2 years ago i was dismissed from my GP reg fibromyalgia, blaming it on weight. He couldnt have been more ignorant when i told him that my pain is also in my arms sometimes and gave me diclofenac to shut up. Thankfully i moved and in surrey i bumped into a GP who got it, presumably as he is still teaching future GP's and not just clocking his time...i was lucky as it was frightening as lifelong long-sleeper to end up every night in incredible pain and the whole body turning stiff, affecting your ability to even breath, not knowing what is going on with you. Since he got it i get the right meds and life is good again...but I would not risk my life here either. In 2006 i tolerated to wait 4 months for my referal, that was the first and the last time, considering in Germany i can even refer myself to the chosen specialist i want an opinion from and if they dont have an appointment as soon as i want i just call another one and dont have to wait and see, who i have to put up with.

pahunkboy -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:27:30 PM)
The thryroid T4 rx is $6 for a whole month. T3, almost impossible to get -- I don't know what the cost is. Note- vets can get it.

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:44:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy The thryroid T4 rx is $6 for a whole month. T3, almost impossible to get -- I don't know what the cost is. Note- vets can get it. Often you don't need T3 as the body will be able to convert a synthetic T4 even if it can't do it with the T4 you produce, don't really know why... But with T3 you have to be monitored all the time as it can be extremely dangerous, but luckily only a few cases require T3, and there is a drug called armour which is made from the thyroid glands of pigs that is ideal for people who have problems with syn-thyroid.

hertz -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:54:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: CerVeza As Lady Thatcher once said ... socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples' money. In the USA, the lower 50 percent income level pays 3 percent of the taxes. The upper 50 percent pay 97 percent of the taxes. So when odumbo the magnificent (aka, "Dear Leader") talks out of his ass about tax breaks for "the rich" ( you know, anybody with a job ) that's the only place you can cut taxes. For leftists who are supposed to be all so caring and smart, they sure are stupid. And, you can't fix stupid. You can fix ignorant, but not stupid. Thus, the election of November. And more to come in 2012! Have you noticed all your posts are nearly identical? I would have omitted the 'nearly'.

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:54:39 PM)
quote: if I'd ever have life-threatening healthproblems i would fly home, get registered unemployed (as that gives me healthcare at home) and get treated there. May I ask where home is? Sounds like the German system... quote: In 2006 i tolerated to wait 4 months for my referal, that was the first and the last time, considering in Germany i can even refer myself to the chosen specialist i want an opinion from and if they dont have an appointment as soon as i want i just call another one and dont have to wait and see, who i have to put up with. Oh yes, that's the thing that gets me, there were a lot of things about Germany I didn't like but the health care was simply amazing. I recall laughing in the spring because my mother had a huff about the fact that the specialist she had chosen had a waiting list of a while week, I could only laugh about it. She recently had a really bad accident, but the care was superb. In all fairness, you pay more for the national health service than you pay here for the NHS and from a certain income on or if you're self-employed you have to be privately insured (which is a blessing because you then really get the super royal treatment). But even if you just have the basic insurance, you still get clean hospitals, access to the same surgeries and treatments, etc., there are some doctors who will only see private patients but they're usually more cosmetic surgeons and boob jobs and face lifts aren't part of the national health... What does happen though is that if you want a different treatment than recommended and that is more expensive, you might have to pay for part of it or the difference in price, unless you're privately insured or have an additional insurance. I really wouldn't mind paying more for the NHS if I would get something for it, but as it is, I think even the little I pay for it is a waste of money. The NHS here is my biggest grievance.

RapierFugue -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:58:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower adores LadyConstanze I so hear you...if I'd ever have life-threatening healthproblems i would fly home, get registered unemployed (as that gives me healthcare at home) and get treated there. I couldnt believe it when here people have legally fight for good cancer drugs dependent on your postcode and am glad that granny got treated at home in two bed rooms followed by single room when she reached her final days. Last year i visited a friend in rehab after a stroke and was shocked...compared to her place my dads rehab 22 years ago, after a slipped disc, was a 5 star hotel and unqualified care staff for the elderly doesnt exist at home as they have to do a similar qualification to what nurses have to do...2 years ago i was dismissed from my GP reg fibromyalgia, blaming it on weight. He couldnt have been more ignorant when i told him that my pain is also in my arms sometimes and gave me diclofenac to shut up. Thankfully i moved and in surrey i bumped into a GP who got it, presumably as he is still teaching future GP's and not just clocking his time...i was lucky as it was frightening as lifelong long-sleeper to end up every night in incredible pain and the whole body turning stiff, affecting your ability to even breath, not knowing what is going on with you. Since he got it i get the right meds and life is good again...but I would not risk my life here either. In 2006 i tolerated to wait 4 months for my referal, that was the first and the last time, considering in Germany i can even refer myself to the chosen specialist i want an opinion from and if they dont have an appointment as soon as i want i just call another one and dont have to wait and see, who i have to put up with. I haven't got the time or the inclination to deal with the errors and assumptions in your post. I don't blame you, it's a common thing when people talk about the NHS. I will, however, say this; People get what they are prepared to pay for; note that in the UK there is no need to "register unemployed" to gain access to the NHS; it's free at point of contact to all, even if you're an overseas national or EU member. The scale of what the NHS takes on, in terms of numbers treated (population in total and number of patients) and conditions accepted for treatment (i.e. which conditions it is prepared to treat, which is a much greater list than almost every other public Health Service in the world), verses what is paid for it, in terms of percentage of GDP, make it one of the largest, as well as most cost-effective, systems on earth; note that many other countries split their healthcare at a threshold earnings, or median age, or condition type or class; the UK does not. Now I may not agree with that as a social and economic stance (and I don't, at least not all of it), but the myth that the NHS doesn't do a good job for the money, or that it should easily be able to offer greater standards of care without massive influxes of new money, simply isn't true. If people want German system, or a French system, or even a Swedish system, then they're more than welcome to implement it. Problem is, you'll need to chisel a lot more money out of people to do so, and you'll need to restrict both the numbers of people treated (or cap the "free" treatment at a threshold) and the conditions accepted for treatment. And no I'm not going to get into a debate about it either. I'm done trying to talk sense into people re: The NHS - let the next generation have a go now [;)]

Moonhead -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 12:59:14 PM)
I'm not sure that's entirely fair: every government we've had since '79 has cut NHS funding. If it wasn't always the first thing to get pithed whenever they need to find money, it'd work a hell of a lot better. As things go, it still more or less works, most of the times. (Unless you're trying to find an NHS dentist, of course...)

LadyConstanze -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 2:16:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead I'm not sure that's entirely fair: every government we've had since '79 has cut NHS funding. If it wasn't always the first thing to get pithed whenever they need to find money, it'd work a hell of a lot better. As things go, it still more or less works, most of the times. (Unless you're trying to find an NHS dentist, of course...) My experiences with the NHS were nothing but disastrous and a good friend (the father of an ex - and we split on good terms and his dad still thinks we should be together despite the fact that we're both partnered and he's married with kids) is a consultant, so he helped out where he could. You should talk to him about the NHS and the short comings and how pissed off the older doctors are (he's in his 60's or 70's - never was impolite enough to ask) about younger doctors who don't even wash their hands before and after examining them, how treatments that they know do work are not given for cost reasons and all that. As I said, I would gladly pay more for a system that does work, you don't get nothing for nothing, the current system doesn't work so it needs to be replaced not patched up badly. ETA: The ex's father is a consultant, not the ex, so ex's father who is an MD thinks NHS and most new doctors are a bit of a sham

Moonhead -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 3:11:48 PM)
Fair enough, but aren't most of those problems arising from the fact that there's more middle management than medical staff in the NHS at the moment? Getting rid of most of them would save a lot of money, and give the medical staff a bit more autonomy. The falling standard of younger doctors coming into the NHS, sadly, is more of a problem.

RapierFugue -> RE: London Protests Turn Violent With Parliament Under Siege Protesters are now fighting with polic (12/15/2010 3:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Fair enough, but aren't most of those problems arising from the fact that there's more middle management than medical staff in the NHS at the moment? Getting rid of most of them would save a lot of money, and give the medical staff a bit more autonomy. The falling standard of younger doctors coming into the NHS, sadly, is more of a problem. <bangs head repeatedly against desk> Must ... not ... correct ... many ... inaccuracies ... <fx: happy sigh> You guys believe whatever the Daily Mail asks you to. I don't care anymore [;)]

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