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RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:20:34 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian.
I suggested a book on the subject.
I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist.

But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position.
Her daughter converted to Judaism. 
"All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me.
It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish.
She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot.
And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:26:33 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I'm still very curious to hear just exactly why some people place their religion above their family. I'd really love to know how that breaks down in your thought process,  if anyone would care to take a stab at it. I find it increasingly interesting that nobody seems willing - or perhaps able - to explain it. 


Perhaps it isn't that they are unwilling or unable... like me, they could have very little time.  As Firm and I are almost out the door to do some shopping, I'll try to give a little insight into one possible answer.

My "faith" is the backbone of who I am.  It shapes my thoughts and my actions.  Putting that part of me before anything else helps to ensure that everything else in my life gets the best from me.



That's a good answer, and it does shed a little light on it for me. It still doesn't get me all the way home, but at least it starts me in what I think is the right direction. I'd like to hear a few more people expand upon it before i draw too many conclusions, but at this point it sounds like we're approaching it from somewhat opposite perspectives.

To me, my devotion to family and those I love gives my faith meaning - my love for other human beings is the context that shapes my belief and helps me understand the meaning of it. It sounds as though you're saying that for you, it's the other way around. Maybe I'm not understanding you, but that's where it sounds as though you're coming from.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:28:57 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"I wonder how God feels about a silly little man judging others? "

Meditate on it, perhaps.





I have. If I believed in God, I would assume he would be greatly offended. All you have to do is read what was written about him.

That is something a lot of people miss. Many folks think proclaiming belief and excepting god into your life is enough.

Since you are a believer, I would worry less about what I think. I would be concerned with how you will explain yourself to your God.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:32:55 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		me
family
community

Many after that, but they tend to swap places quite frequently, depending on how life is going at any given moment.

I almost didn't put me first, but, if I don't take care of me first, I won't be much use to family and community.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:34:54 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Am I the only one that is going to put internet porn in their top three?


hahahahaha.  I may have to rethink my list to put Starship on it.....

hmmmm

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:40:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Duty Honor Country


Sex, Drugs, Rock&Roll

Ian Dury and the Blockheads -

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 12:41:31 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Tazzy,

I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm.


I may have misunderstood, but I think he asked her permission and it was granted, to bring up extremes.

Does this mean Tazzy dommed Firm?

hmmmmm

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:11:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Fast Reply:

We can put our "priority of identities" in neat, ranked little boxes, but the danger is that this is a simplification of life, and ourselves, really.

I could easily defend any rank ordering.  Likewise, I bet that just about any rank ordering can be successfully attacked.

I understand truckin's choices, and understand the logic and emotions behind them, and generally I agree with them, but realize that sometimes it's not always so clear cut.

Firm



I think it is very hard to attack "Parent" as the top ranking due to the biological imperative (if you have kids of course!)

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:13:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL

Now you change the parameters.


In response to a weasel worded answer.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:19:28 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian.
I suggested a book on the subject.
I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist.

But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position.
Her daughter converted to Judaism. 
"All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me.
It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish.
She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot.
And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice.


Lovely.

She is "unthinkingly kind" but, if I'm understanding you correctly, she doesn't see her daughter and grandchildren because they converted to Judaism.

How very Christian.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:22:33 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I gave you an answer that I think is sufficient to any Christian.
I suggested a book on the subject.
I also said that I thought it would be rare, and extreme, for such conflict to exist.

But a friend of mine for over 40 years pretty much faced it. This woman is probably the most truly committed Christian I have ever known. Her husband is an elder in their church. Born into the kind of wealth that I can only imagine. When her husband wanted to set up his own practice and complained about the rent in a downtown highrise she bought the building. That kind of wealth, but it never defined her. She is the sort of Christian who tells me she envies the commitment and sense of community my AA home group and I share, that she hasn't felt that kind of closeness since her college days with a certain Christian outreach group... she is just unthinkingly kind. It's her default position.
Her daughter converted to Judaism. 
"All those Easter Sundays..." she said to me.
It breaks her heart, anew, to see her grandchildren raised Jewish.
She prays for them, and bites her tongue a lot.
And doesn't see them too much. Her daughter made her choice.


Lovely.

She is "unthinkingly kind" but, if I'm understanding you correctly, she doesn't see her daughter and grandchildren because they converted to Judaism.

How very Christian.



You have automatically assumed it is the christian... it doesn't mean to say that it's the christians choice... it may be her daughters... or it may be the conflict of the two religions and not the people themselves.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:38:48 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		no one has even mentioned gender yet .........

........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic.

_____________________________



(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 1:42:00 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

no one has even mentioned gender yet .........

........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic.


Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual?

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 2:12:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Tazzy,

I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm.


I may have misunderstood, but I think he asked her permission and it was granted, to bring up extremes.

Does this mean Tazzy dommed Firm?

hmmmmm


Whoa whoa.

No one dommed anyone. gesh.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 2:15:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Tazzy,

I think the fact that he needs to come up with these absurd scenarios and suggest that putting the family first would mean silly things like covering up the fact that your child committed a hideous crime speaks volumes about Firm.



I took it him testing what i meant. While, with the last one, he could push the issue and state i would turn my son in, knowing he would be safe and sound if i didnt, would be putting country first, i would disagree again. I dont know anyone who lives in Washington. Probably not know anyone on that plane. I can assure you those lives would not be first in my mind.

Someone who would go that far to prove a political, or religious, point, in my mind, is off the deep end and needs help. Even my own child. And there would be my thought process.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 2:18:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL

Now you change the parameters.


In response to a weasel worded answer.


Its amazing that you can read my mind over the internet, willbe.

There was no weasling in my response. Just a parents concern for their child rising above god and country.

But, believe as you wish. You usually do regardless.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 2:19:54 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

no one has even mentioned gender yet .........

........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic.


Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual?


I actually had a bit of that thought myself.

Do women feel differently than men? Would most women put family first, while most men put something different?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 2:23:20 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Had I thought of it, I would have expected you to be incapable of coming remotely close to comprehending her pain. Right again.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 3:21:03 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

no one has even mentioned gender yet .........

........ yet so many people regard their gender as basic.


Really? You would put someone ahead because of the gender, rather than as an individual?


In conventional accounts, a sense of gender identity is said to be developed before an infant masters language ie. before it can have any concept/awareness of religion country class race etc etc. That suggests it's pretty fundamental.

This is not my personal view.

_____________________________



(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Self-identification - 12/11/2010 3:35:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL

Now you change the parameters.


In response to a weasel worded answer.


Its amazing that you can read my mind over the internet, willbe.

There was no weasling in my response. Just a parents concern for their child rising above god and country.

But, believe as you wish. You usually do regardless.


No need to read your mind, your words are quite clear. Unless of course, you dont really believe the words you post...and that is possible since so many of them are illogical.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/11/2010 3:36:03 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 80
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