RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People.

RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 4:07:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound quote: Same thing. the interest of the moneyed are the same as the interests of eeryone else: maintain democracy, capitalism and the freedom to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities. Speak for yourself, and those of your ilk. LMAO , which ilk is that? And btw flcouple said exactly the same thing I did that elicited your "very well put". lmao

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 4:09:48 PM)
We are not the world's Angels...[:D] But I would be interested in you telling me who the Angels are...or have been in world history. Have you ever thought that "the people" are not always right or just? Do you really think Hitler or Stalin for that matter could have survived without the support of those nations majorities? The so called "people" are often wrong...unjust...bigoted and as guilty as their leaders... In fact I would go so far as to say this is true in all cases. Butch

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 4:13:31 PM)
quote: LMAO , which ilk is that? And btw flcouple said exactly the same thing I did that elicited your "very well put". lmao The interests of the moneyed are not the interests of mine. And I beg to differ that you and flcouple said the same thing.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 4:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound quote: LMAO , which ilk is that? And btw flcouple said exactly the same thing I did that elicited your "very well put". lmao The interests of the moneyed are not the interests of mine. And I beg to differ that you and flcouple said the same thing. ORLY. Why dont you splain the difference Lucy? US Policy = support whoever is more closely aligned with the interest of the US vs We've always backed dictators and tyrants if it suited our purpose at the time

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 4:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub We are not the world's Angels...[:D] But I would be interested in you telling me who the Angels are...or have been in world history. Past failure is not necessarily indicative of future failure. In other words, we have the ability to do better. quote: Have you ever thought that "the people" are not always right or just? Do you really think Hitler or Stalin for that matter could have survived without the support of those nations majorities? The so called "people" are often wrong...unjust...bigoted and as guilty as their leaders... In fact I would go so far as to say this is true in all cases. In all cases people are wrong, unjust, bigoted, and as guilty as their leaders? That's a pretty jaded outlook Butch, and doesn't say much for our species.

AnimusRex -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 5:45:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy ...the interest of the moneyed are the same as the interests of eeryone else: maintain democracy, capitalism and the freedom to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities. What would cause you to think that the moneyed class has any desire, or interest in maintaining democracy and the "ability to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities"? What possible evidence have you seen that supports this view? Every bit of evidence I have seen suggests otherwise- the history of United Fruit maintaining friendly relations with dictators in Central and South America; American corporations loving the firm dictatorial grip the Chinese government holds over its slave labor population; their love of outsourcing American jobs to low wage countries where workers have no rights. Seriously- tell us what causes you to imagine moneyed class has a desire to maintain democracy around the world.

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 7:00:14 PM)
quote: That's a pretty jaded outlook Butch, and doesn't say much for our species. Not jaded I think but truthful...you...I... everyone is capable of hate and discrimination. It is a survival instinct that is based in fear and practical in the real world. It will never be eliminated from the human psyche. quote: Past failure is not necessarily indicative of future failure. In other words, we have the ability to do better. If there has NEVER been a civilization, country, or government that has ever done anything but look after its own interests first then are you not asking a lot of the US to start now? At least should you not look on our actions in sad understanding rather than distain? Butch

willbeurdaddy -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 7:48:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex What would cause you to think that the moneyed class has any desire, or interest in maintaining democracy and the "ability to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities"? Uhhhh, the greatest economy in world history, with those at the top changing over the decades.

rulemylife -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/12/2010 8:31:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy US Policy = support whoever is more closely aligned with the interest of the US same as every other fucking city, state, and country in the world. Then tell me Willbeur, what do you define as the interests of the US? Because it seems to me that pursuing those interests has been counterproductive and has backfired more time times than I can count. Including our support of the Mujahedin.

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 8:47:24 AM)
Rule if we could all just know the future we would make different decisions and take different paths. Yes in hindsight it was counter productive to support the Mujahedin but remember we found it in our interests to save Europe twice in the last hundred years… oh wait you are right sorry. Butch

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 6:12:37 PM)
quote: US Policy = support whoever is more closely aligned with the interest of the US vs We've always backed dictators and tyrants if it suited our purpose at the time Upon review, they can be more similar than dissimilar, depending upon the perception of the reader within a specific time and frame of mind. Flcouple's comment came off as honest and refreshing to me. "Interests of the US" comes off as government policy-speak to me, whereas "if it suited our purposes" is more direct and encompassing to me. "Dictators and tyrants" is more open and honest to me than "whoever." Flcouple's statement is how I would express the same thought. Your statement is how I perceive a speech-writer for Bush or Obama to express a similar thought.

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 6:24:31 PM)
quote: Not jaded I think but truthful...you...I... everyone is capable of hate and discrimination. In an extreme context, this would be true. I'm sure the vast majority of males would hate any other male that raped and killed their mother/sister/daughter. And most employers would hire a good looking, fit, polished salesman over an unattractive, fat, slovenly salesman. Though I'm not sure if these extreme context examples are relevant to our topic at hand. quote: It is a survival instinct that is based in fear and practical in the real world. It will never be eliminated from the human psyche. Yes, fear is a commodity, and those at the top of the food chain are selling it. Fear needs to be removed from the environment before it can be removed from the human psyche. quote: If there has NEVER been a civilization, country, or government that has ever done anything but look after its own interests first then are you not asking a lot of the US to start now? At least should you not look on our actions in sad understanding rather than distain? Change needs to start somewhere, and it won't occur if the majority continue to worship the status-quo.

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 6:25:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy ...the interest of the moneyed are the same as the interests of eeryone else: maintain democracy, capitalism and the freedom to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities. What would cause you to think that the moneyed class has any desire, or interest in maintaining democracy and the "ability to succeed or fail based on your own efforts and abilities"? What possible evidence have you seen that supports this view? Every bit of evidence I have seen suggests otherwise- the history of United Fruit maintaining friendly relations with dictators in Central and South America; American corporations loving the firm dictatorial grip the Chinese government holds over its slave labor population; their love of outsourcing American jobs to low wage countries where workers have no rights. Seriously- tell us what causes you to imagine moneyed class has a desire to maintain democracy around the world. Excellent questions.

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 6:33:45 PM)
quote: Uhhhh, the greatest economy in world history, The greatest economy, or a series of craftily manipulated bubbles that eventually burst? quote: with those at the top changing over the decades. Are you referring to the POTUS?

rulemylife -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 6:42:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No you misunderstand my post...I want us to stop meddling in other people's business but we are not the world's angels...we must look out for ourselves first just as every other country does. We should not put our economy at risk because people are too weak to stand up for their rights. It is not our place to decide who should govern or who should not it is up to the people of that country. Neither should we suffer because of their weaknesses. They should stand up and take control or live with the consequences of their cowardice. Think of all the successful nations of this world and how they were formed and reformed. All were the result of change from within despite interference from outside governments. This is a fact not crying heart oh the poor oppressed bullshit. Butch No, you are misunderstanding the issue. When we make these deals we are financially supporting those oppressive governments. You want to have it both ways. You want to say we should be free to interfere in these countries when it benefits us but that we hold no responsibility. I'm sure you don't behave that way in your personal life, feeling free to do whatever is best for you with no regard for others. So why would you want your country to behave that way?

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 8:37:30 PM)
Talk talk talk...being naive does no one any good...I am not belittling your comments...In fact I wish they would come true but our history says otherwise. It amazes me that people today think they are having original thoughts and if only others would listen to their way of thinking there could be true change. Well there are very very few original thoughts... I'll bet you or I have not had a truly original thought enter our minds in our lifetimes...I'll bet no one alive on this earth has had a truly, exclusive, original thought. Your sentiments have been expressed many many times through history to no avail. It is all opinion of course but I believe there will be no government that puts the well being of other nations ahead of their own citizens. Butch

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 8:42:36 PM)
Where did I suggest putting the well being of other nations ahead of our own?

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 9:07:42 PM)
quote: No, you are misunderstanding the issue. No you misunderstand me misunderstanding the issue...[:D] I don't want it both ways...or one way...or any way. We are very different individually then we are as a group don't you agree? When you are given the trust of many rather than just yourself the way you look at any situation changes...again don't you agree. Then when given the choice between what is better for those who have given you the authority to act for their benefit and your own personal moral beliefs then how would you act. I believe and history dictates that you act in the favor of those who have given you the mandate to look after their welfare. If you don't do it then you will be removed from authority. So in the end nothing will ever change unless human nature does and we know how slow that is if ever. Perhaps it is just not in us as humans. Butch

kdsub -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/13/2010 9:24:14 PM)
The above way of thinking is why I believe in isolationism… Imagine how much better off the world would be if the US withdrew from the global economy and world politics. If we concentrated on making ourselves totally independent within our own resources… whatever it took. Then if totally independent we would have no need to take the resources of others. Of course this is not original thought and it has been tried many times in the past to no avail but if I were King…lol Then who would the world have to blame for their own problems…lol I would be great to watch though Butch

kinkbound -> RE: U.S. Policy = Support the Dictators, Screw the People. (12/14/2010 9:06:21 AM)
Here's what "isolationism" means to me: Whether though my own efforts or those of blood-generations before me, I've either managed to figure out how to play the game to my best advantage, or maintain what my forefathers have created. Since I believe I have the resources to sustain myself and those I care about, I now want to build a wall around me and shut out the rest of the world so I do not have to share with anyone. If others perish due to lack of brains, muscle, or resources; well, that's their problem.

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