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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:02:42 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I don't understand your question, Tazzy. Edit for clarity?


Many men and women enlisted by hiding their sexual orientation. I, personally, dont expect this to make the ranks in the military swell. What I do expect is that this bill will allow our military to focus more sharly on the tasks at hand rather than worrying about who is going to discover their secret.


Bingo.

No more having to obey "don't ask, don't tell" by hiding pictures of boyfriends, promise rings, family pictures, censoring all mention of home life, dates, family reunions with your partner, going to visit the in-laws because - even during casual banter - if it comes out, you're out too!

All while military weddings and sword pats on the ass are perfectly ok - as long as it's a man and a women. Then you can have all the family pictures, wear your rings and say "Oh I'm going to visit the in-laws" or "I got a steamy letter from my partner".

Frankly, I'd have been all for don't ask, don't tell if it was applied fairly and no one knew anyone's sexuality/romantic preferences.


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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:07:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I forsee an interesting election season coming up.

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:15:56 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		Panda, only an utter dumbass would think this is going to be seamless and simple transition. There are going to problems, and incidents, and likely a tragedy somewhere. Instead of discharging troops who enlisted understanding they were expected not to advertise, now we'll be discharging troops who cannot get past their bigotry and homophobia. Manpower is going to have to be diverted to write the new manuals, and teach the new classes. It's going to be a distraction to people who need to be focused on fighting in the place where empires go to die.

Now I not only think dumping DADT is the right thing to do, I thought it was a pussy cop-out back in the early 90's when it came in. I served during the time when they did ask if you were a homosexual, and disqualified for it, and I served with people who had lied to the recruiter when asked.

Sometimes you have two important, good things that come into conflict, and that has to be balanced somehow. I don't know that this was the best balance, but it is what it is, and the military will say "yes, sir," and execute the orders to the best of their abilities.

Let me be really clear here, for anybody who thinks I'm talking about a military recruitment effort. The burden is on the gay community. They wanted this, they got it. I'm old enough to remember when it was becoming common for girls to play little league, and every one of them was expected to step up to the plate.

Maybe a seasonal analogy would be suitable. When a youth wants one expensive toy more than anything else in the world, becomes a total whining pest about it, then never plays with the damn thing, s/he isn't quite so likely to get what s/he wants next time.



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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:17:05 PM   
AquaticSub


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Status: offline 		I foresee a lot of issues. Namely - how many people are going to be comfortable outing themselves now? If the election changes things, will the currently out service men and women be kicked out? And can the ones who were kicked out enlist again?

Don't ask, don't tell is one of several reasons I didn't join. Probably one of the most deciding since I knew I would utterly fail at keeping my sexuality secret.

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:20:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		What i meant was the election season, 2012.

The GOP will be portrayed as the party that was too concerned for the rich to worry about the gays or the responders, or anything else for that matter.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:22:47 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Manpower is going to have to be diverted to write the new manuals, and teach the new classes. It's going to be a distraction to people who need to be focused on fighting in the place where empires go to die.


Enlistees wont have much trouble, i suspect. Most are young. The young seem to accept homosexuality. Its our generation that will have the problems. Time for the old GI Joes to get over themselves... Like McCain.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:32:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Many men and women enlisted by hiding their sexual orientation. I, personally, dont expect this to make the ranks in the military swell. What I do expect is that this bill will allow our military to focus more sharly on the tasks at hand rather than worrying about who is going to discover their secret.


I think I covered this, Tazzy, but I'll add a little.

I've said before that up until now, our military has gotten those gays willing to lie about their orientation, and those who may still be finding themselves as young adults. The services will now be open to those who are proud of who they are. The ball is in their court.




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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:35:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		That isnt why this was passed.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:39:11 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That isnt why this was passed.



Call it an example of unintended consequences then, Tazzy.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:41:17 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Its your expectation. Its not mine. Nor do i believe its the expectations of the gay community.

This bill was passed to protect those who wish to serve, and did so well, whose only offence was being gay. Good men and women who served with pride. Who were kicked out only because they were discovered to be gay.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:45:12 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

That isnt why this was passed.



Call it an example of unintended consequences then, Tazzy.


I can see your point. If there aren't a bunch of homosexuals joining or coming out, then this could backfire. Give ammo to the anti-gay groups, saying that we made a fuss pointlessly.

It's something I'm concerned about. I know the desire is there. What I'm concerned about is, even with DADT repealed for the moment, are people going to be feel safe enlisting while openly gay? Are people going to wait to see if this sticks? Will that waiting - not wanting to out themselves out of fear of being kicked out later - cost us this repeal?

I'm not sure there is a way to guess what is going to happen. After feeling so spurned, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a line of people waiting to join up. At the same time, I know that could be used against the homosexual movement. I do think you have a point - the ball is in our court to show that this was a good thing, that homosexuality doesn't matter in terms of who makes a good solider. However unfair it is, it's the bleak reality. The first people to break barriers usually have to be beyond reproach or risk losing progress.


_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:48:34 PM   
BKSir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Now I guess we wait and see how many gays actually go out and enlist, or if this was all just a fight for the symbolic victory.




I find that amazingly prejudicial and disgustingly insulting. Being that my partner of 15 years is a disabled veteran who served his country honourably. My roommate and apprentice in the kitchen was kicked out of the military because he is bi. Many people whom I hold dear at the V.A. hospital are in the LGBT group and were discharged because of their orientation.

These people all wanted to serve their country, some did, many gave their last breath for you and me, many lost even more than that. Although why they would wish to protect the rights, liberties and freedoms of the likes of you is entirely beyond me. God bless them all, for they have more strength than I ever will. People like you are precisely WHY I refused to join the military or become a police officer in the states.

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/18/2010 11:50:40 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/10/20/2010-10-20_dan_choi_poster_child_for_repeal_of_dont_ask_dont_tell_and_other_gay_troops_try_.html

They tried when the ban was lifted bu the federal Judge Phillips. I think its safe to assume they will try again.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 12:04:02 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir
Although why they would wish to protect the rights, liberties and freedoms of the likes of you is entirely beyond me. God bless them all, for they have more strength than I ever will. People like you are precisely WHY I refused to join the military or become a police officer in the states.



You can put that right back where it belongs, BK. I'm more concerned about whether a mechanic who busts his knuckles on a tank track is going to face possible disciplinary action for calling it a "cocksucker," than I am about your knee jerk thrashings and flailings of emotional response.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 12:20:22 AM   
PyrotheClown


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quote:



You can put that right back where it belongs, BK. I'm more concerned about whether a mechanic who busts his knuckles on a tank track is going to face possible disciplinary action for calling it a "cocksucker," than I am about your knee jerk thrashings and flailings of emotional response.

Can't even call a boot a boot anymore.
and you're concerned that repealing don't ask don't tell will have an adverse effect on our troops how?

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 12:44:40 AM   
soul2share


Posts: 7084
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From: somewhere out there.....
Status: offline 		When I was in the Army, we had 3 women who were lesbians, 2 of them lovers/roommates.  Everyone in the unit knew it, and we protected their secret like it was ours.  And we were a small unit, at the most, only 56 personnel between the Field office in Frankfurt, and us out at Rhein Main AB.  Did we care?  Nope, not a bit.....the 3 of them busted their butts just as much as the rest of us, and I would've gladly gone to war right beside them, elbow to elbow in a foxhole.  And one of the 3 was MY roommate.....I never once felt threatened or afraid she was going to try to hit on me.  The only time that anyone even thought about the 3 of them and their preferences was when some idiot asked about them.

I could care less what a person's sexual orientation is.....the only thing that matters is that they can shoot to kill, and knowing they have my back.

Ironically, this topic wasn't one that set the Navy guys I worked with off at all.....their concern was that the Navy is going to allow women on submarines......the thinking is that as soon as women are on board a sub, that all sorts of sexual escapades will pop up.  They said that the Navy wives would have a cow too......my response to that was that if she can't trust her husband, or if the husband can't trust his wife onboard a sub, they have bigger problems than both sexes in cramped quarters.

I for one am glad they finally did away with the archaic thing.....no matter what the result is as far as recruitment.  I'm sure there are going to be folks going back into the service as a result of this.  I've read many articles in the media about the ones who had stated they would if the DADT was repealed. 

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 1:05:19 AM   
SexyBossyBBW


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Status: offline 		I think it's great news, that enough people finally stop posturing, and did the right thing.  I further believe, that anyone who's been fired for no other reason, than being asked to lie, should be paid for lost time, and rehired if they so desire.   M

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 6:35:49 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Panda, only an utter dumbass would think this is going to be seamless and simple transition. There are going to problems, and incidents, and likely a tragedy somewhere. Instead of discharging troops who enlisted understanding they were expected not to advertise, now we'll be discharging troops who cannot get past their bigotry and homophobia. Manpower is going to have to be diverted to write the new manuals, and teach the new classes. It's going to be a distraction to people who need to be focused on fighting in the place where empires go to die.




In an earlier post I wrote what happened in Great Britain according to their own Ministry Of Defense when they allowed GLBT to serve openly in their military.

"Since the military began allowing homosexuals to serve, none of its fears about harassment, discord, blackmail, bullying or an erosion of unit cohesion or military effectiveness have come to pass, according to the MOD, current and former members of the services and academics specializing in the military. The biggest news about the policy, they say, is that there is no news. It has for the most part become a non-issue."

Why is it that you believe that we will somehow be less civilized about this than they were?
They didn't have the forcasted problems.

And yet you think it is a certainty for us,

Are the Brits just better, more tolerant people?

What exactly does that say about our military and it's leadership?

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 8:26:33 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Panda, only an utter dumbass would think this is going to be seamless and simple transition. There are going to problems, and incidents, and likely a tragedy somewhere. Instead of discharging troops who enlisted understanding they were expected not to advertise, now we'll be discharging troops who cannot get past their bigotry and homophobia. Manpower is going to have to be diverted to write the new manuals, and teach the new classes. It's going to be a distraction to people who need to be focused on fighting in the place where empires go to die.



I am wondering what the plan is for the UCMJ.  Homosexual acts are still a crime in the military.  Will the repeal of DADT create a need for the UCMJ to be re-written or will homosexuals be allowed to serve but not have sex?

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RE: DADT repeal passes the Senate! - 12/19/2010 9:16:09 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Time will tell, Angelika, and I'd be quite ok with being proven wrong. I believe that allowing gays to serve openly is the right thing to do, and that the doors have just been opened to a lot of people who will make damn fine soldiers, if they choose to do so.

Different doesn't mean better or worse. It just means different, and our culture, and military culture, are not the British ones.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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